RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 11:19:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2


i suppose it's not only is one person better off than 4 or 8 years ago, but what about this country and the rest of the world; are they better off than 4 or 8 years ago? that of course includes the people, the environment in which we live (concretely and idealistically as well as rationally and under what sort of laws/beliefs).

 
girl, of course not!
The last two Presidencies have been disasters!
If Ronald Reagan were still alive he'd kick both Clinton and Bush's asses at the same time!
Those guys are fuckin Amateurs!
It all started going downhill in 1993 when they signed "NAFTA" effectively killing the working person in this country and that p.o.s. was helped along by Bush 1 another "YALE" graduate!
Three Duds in a row and they all went to "YALE!"
I will NEVER vote for anyone who went to "YALE" again.




farglebargle -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 11:31:00 AM)

quote:

President Carter is the patron saint and founding father of radical Islam. Without him it is doubtful there would be radical Islam.


Well, that ignores 1300 years of Islamic History, doesn't it?





meatcleaver -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 11:50:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

President Carter is the patron saint and founding father of radical Islam. Without him it is doubtful there would be radical Islam. He managed to legitimize a fringe movement within a religion and make it the most powerful faction within that religion.


This is nonsensical. Carter became President in 1977 and the Iranian revolution occurred in 1978. Are you seriously suggesting that becoming President in October 1977 he created the radical Islam of the Iranian revolution that began in January 1978? That is barely three months, it is a ridiculous suggestion.




ElectraGlide -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 12:01:07 PM)

I know Jimmy Carter was a southern rock fan, Lynyrd Skynyrd and other southern rockers supported him. Jimmy claimed to be a Led Zeppelin fan, to have seen a U.F.O. and to have been attacked by a killer rabbit in a boat. Could he have been stomped on Billy Beer when he made those claims ?




Sinergy -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 12:33:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The real problem was Abramic religions, now the problem is economic imperialism and the US was happy to take over where the British left off. Carter can't be blamed for a state of affairs that he inherited but only for his term in office.



I agree with you.

I think the Abramic religions are being used to deflect attention away from the real reason.  A similar example was Ireland.  The English conquered it, forced the locals out to be agrarian farmers and built an economic infrastructure to allow economic prosperity, but only in the parts they controlled. 

Eventually, the locals got tense.

The locals objected, and suddenly the world perceives it as a problem between Catholicism and Protestantism.

My post was more in response to the person who said that Islamic / Christian conflict is a recent thing. 

Sinergy




meatcleaver -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 1:03:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My post was more in response to the person who said that Islamic / Christian conflict is a recent thing. 

Sinergy


I realised that after I posted but too late to edit. The problem of working and reading the threads at the same time. Apologies.




Nosathro -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/20/2007 1:34:21 PM)

I am not a big fan of Bush, but Carter is to me someone who should not go around pointing finger.  During his Administration, his Domestic and Foreign Policies were failures, inflation and unemployment went up.  One year he could not get a budget passed on time.  I was in the Army in Georgia and we had to wait 4 days past our pay day to be paid, only because of an emergency spending bill.  Then Carter promoted Swine Flu shots because the Pharmacial Companies told him there would be a major out break, that never happened, and about 150 died from the shots that were unsafe to begin with.  His Own Secertary of Defense resigned after the failed Iran Resuce attempt.  Carter demended the mission go ahead after repeated warning by Secertary of Defense it would fail and it did.  Then there is the Love Canal incident where his Administration withheld information on the toxic dumpsite that became a residental community and how many people suffered from that one.
 
The Iran Hostage Crisis started after Carter allowed The Shaw to come to the US for cancer treatment, this was pushed by Kissenger.  However, many Doctors who had examed the Shaw had come to the conclusion that the cancer was so far spread treatment would not work.  Also there were far better Cancer Treatment Facility in other Countries. 
 
Castro went public and claim he dupped Carter into taking all his Prisoners and Mental Ill.  Carter had thought he was accepting Cuban Disadents, and Castro was right.  A few years back Carter visited Cuba and had a forum on Democracy, all attended by Castro hand picked.  After Carter left Cuba Castro signed into law that no matter what happen in an election his Party would rule and arrested some 20 supporters of Democracy in Cuba.
 
On a personal note..Carter Peanut farmed failed..it never made a dime.  Carter term as Governor of Georgia is also consider one of the worst failures.  Oh..in Georgia on of the biggest jokes around during the Carter Presidency was "Who has bigger boobs then Dolly Parton?..Answer: Mrs. Carter...Jimmy and Billy."




Level -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 4:03:45 AM)

"I have one life and one chance to make it count for something . . . I'm free to choose what that something is, and the something I've chosen is my faith. Now, my faith goes beyond theology and religion and requires considerable work and effort. My faith demands -- this is not optional -- my faith demands that I do whatever I can, wherever I am, whenever I can, for as long as I can with whatever I have to try to make a difference."

Jimmy Carter




Sanity -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 6:15:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"I have one life and one chance to make it count for something . . . I'm free to choose what that something is, and the something I've chosen is my faith. Now, my faith goes beyond theology and religion and requires considerable work and effort. My faith demands -- this is not optional -- my faith demands that I do whatever I can, wherever I am, whenever I can, for as long as I can with whatever I have to try to make a difference."

Jimmy Carter


Jimmy Carter obviously seeks attention. His "good deeds" are about Jimmy Carter, and even his angry, hateful attacks on President Bush (that God is making him do) are for attention.

He's a mentally deficient media whore, pure and simple.




Mercnbeth -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 6:44:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

President Carter is the patron saint and founding father of radical Islam. Without him it is doubtful there would be radical Islam. He managed to legitimize a fringe movement within a religion and make it the most powerful faction within that religion.


This is nonsensical. Carter became President in 1977 and the Iranian revolution occurred in 1978. Are you seriously suggesting that becoming President in October 1977 he created the radical Islam of the Iranian revolution that began in January 1978? That is barely three months, it is a ridiculous suggestion.


Your "nonsense" my opinion, with reasons I believe are logical conclusions based upon facts. The dates are material, they confirm that President Carter was the President whose lack of action spurred on the philosophy of radical Islam, culminating in what today is a major international force.

People point to the President Kennedy assassination as a cross-road. They are of the opinion that the Vietnam War would not have happened if President Kennedy completed his administration. I am of the same opinion regarding the radical Islam movement in general and the attack on the World Trade Center specific.

One of the lasting images of Vietnam and the fall of Saigon was the helicopter taking off from the roof of the embassy. A sovereign embassy, which until the very last helicopter took off, was defended and never compromised. When  the Iranians took over the US embassy in Iran, President Carter surrendered its sovereignty immediately. In doing so, especially in the eyes of our enemies, he had surrendered. In not given the government of Iran the ultimatum to honor the sovereignty of the US embassy and releasing the hostages, he surrendered to radical form of Islam represented by the hostage takers. Radical Islam became a power, with the titular head the Ayatollah, and the enforcement power being those representing the radical fringe. Radical Islam had taken on the "great Satan" and made him impotent. The face of that failure is President Carter. Up until that point, all that occurred could be seen as practical international politics and a desire to remove a dictator. The embassy situation was an issue of sovereignty. When that sovereignty was not honored those responsible should have been attacked, if not by the nation the embassy resided, by the USA. By not honoring the international sovereignty of an Embassy the host nation abdicated its responsibility in the international forum. Unless, as it turns out, the attack becomes the focal point in the establishing of a new identity. President Carter's administration and its impotence facilitated the birth and established the power of radical Islam as an international political force.

Twenty-three years later, the child born that day was a major factor the attacks of 9/11.

That said, I am eternally grateful for President Carter. Without his actions, I most likely would still be working in NYC. I am in LA as a result. I met beth. I have never been this happy.

Just as there are many people and their families who are of the opinion that their sons would not have died in Vietnam if President Kennedy had not been killed. My opinion is that my long time partner, friend, and many other friends and acquaintances, as well as over three thousand other individuals; would not be dead. It is my opinion that my office and the building that contained it, would still be standing if President Carter had defended USA sovereignty in Iran. This is my opinion. It is as legitimate as those concerning JFK. In deference to the position of 'Realone' on what occurred that day - it will until the day I die - remain the fundamental cause of my opinion regarding President Carter.




domiguy -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 6:54:06 AM)

I think as of right now it is impossible to make any direct comparisons between Bush and Carter....Jimmy Carter has don nothing but lead by example since leaving office...It is left to be seen what Bush will do once he is done with his Presidency.....I have never blamed a president for failures that have taken place in the economy unless a direct correlation can be made between their actions and how those actions could affect the economy.....To suggest that a President has direct control over inflation or a rising and falling econmy shows a lack of understanding to the true workings of our market place today.

The days are long gone that the effects of going to war would simulate an economy....Bush's policies have definitely had an affect on the rising cost of fuel which is not helping anyone....Carter's Presidency would have to be considered far from effective...But since then he has proven himself as one of our greatest Presidents.

73% of Republicans still think Bush is doing a "good" job.....These are the Gallup Poll numbers as of last week.....Why would anyone star up an argument with anyone who falls within this camp?  We have reached a point in the political arena where as long as "my" guy is in everything is ok...Please don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.  If Gore talks about "global warming" it can't be correct because he is a Democrat....No matter what Carter has done since his Presidency...He is an awful man....Most of the Republicans out here have not the ability or the brain power to think on their own...They have totally become trapped in the political machinery and what is truly sad seem to have allowed it to happen willingly.




JohnSteed1967 -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 7:04:48 AM)

While Carter was pretty much a failure during his presidency with the exception of his one shining example the "Camp David" peace accords. Since he left office he indeed has done a wonderful job of trying to leave a shining legacy of a world statesman.

As for his opinion of bush, I don't think the terms "Worst in History" were strong enough!

The Whole Bush family is corrupted with bush's great grand being a grave robber, to his grandfather being arrested under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" during world war two. Now his Father is a lobbist for the Saudi's and How much are we paying for Gas?????




Sinergy -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 7:11:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
<snip>
has to build houses for the homeless now to recover some sort of a legacy - any legacy at all.
<snip>


Ya gotta wonder how Bush is gonna read in the history books, as well.
He is gonna have to do alot of toilet slavery to have any legacy himself.

Ron



He was asked about 4 years ago if he ever thought about his legacy.

His response was "Who cares?  We'll all be dead."

I read that in books like "The Madness Of King George," etc.  It was to a news reporter so it can be searched for as well.

Sinergy




farglebargle -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 8:07:44 AM)

The problem with Apocolyptic Theory is...

WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND WE DON'T ALL DIE???

Having a Plan B is seen as a "Lack of Faith".





Mercnbeth -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 8:52:57 AM)

President Carter's assessment of his remarks hold true to his Presidency; "careless or misinterpreted".

Wonder if he got any dings, or wrecked his transmission reversing himself so quickly? I give him credit for maintaining the same fortitude, strength, and commitment which he showed as President.

quote:

Interviewed on the TODAY Show about the comments, Carter said, "They were maybe careless or misinterpreted." He said he “certainly was not talking personally about any president.” Source:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18759682/




mnottertail -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 9:14:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Jimmy Carter obviously seeks attention. His "good deeds" are about Jimmy Carter, and even his angry, hateful attacks on President Bush (that God is making him do) are for attention.

He's a mentally deficient media whore, pure and simple.


But it is ok for a fuckwad like Jerry Falwell to make faces and tongues at the 'others' and we have to give him leeway because he is centerpiece at the maggot banquet?  C'mon-----

Ron 




Alumbrado -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 9:21:42 AM)

LOL!!!  Now it turns out that everyone who agreed with Carter's remarks are in disagreement with Carter's spin...[:D]

When are people going to quit taking every smarmy pronouncement from their favorite career politicians as gospel?





farglebargle -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 10:12:27 AM)

Well, Carter *did* teach Sunday School. ( That probably should have disqualified him as a viable candidate, but hey... )




Cuckme4Life -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 10:30:45 AM)

[/quote] 
Are you seriously suggesting that becoming President in October 1977 he created the radical Islam of the Iranian revolution that began in January 1978? That is barely three months, it is a ridiculous suggestion.
[/quote]

3 months eh?  Try this timeframe then.  50 US hostages were held from  November 4, 1979  to January 20, 1981. Take your 3 months and stick it somewhere. My USMC loyalty has alot to say about this one issue alone, so dont get me started.   Now on to the "real" Carter legacy. 

Carter himself was not the catalyst, but the Western world  in general. Being a Shah supporter was the tool the Islamic radicals of the 70s used to overthrow their government of that time. Along with Carters insistence to align the USA with the Saudis. Understand that to the Islamic world, this was backing up the royal family known for  unreasonable treatment of their own citizens , and not about "protecting oil interests".  Beside this fact, radical Islam has always existed. The Ayatollah Khomeini, coming out of banishment from Iran his own self, rallied up the Persian factions into a frenzy to the point of running out the Shah of Iran. The Shah was Western oriented in his beliefs. Iran was the by far the most modernized Middle Eastern nation in the 1970s. And then practically overnight, Iran went back to being a 3rd world country because of their radical Islamic faction gaining control. Laws concerning religion and freedom changed immediately. Iranians were losing their lives based on religious creeds and for not going with the "program". The Iranian refugees who scattered across Europe and elsewhere were countless. I had an Iranian  neighbor who was on an American Naval ship that was told if he left that ship to go home, he would be killed immediately as he touched foot on his native Iranial soil. He ended up an American citizen and stayed on the host ship to get to the States, leaving behind his own family of brothers and sisters and all that he knew.  The Iranian Revolution was a disaster, and unfortunately for Carter, he will have to live with that legacy along with Russian invasions into numerous countries on his watch as he was too wimpy to face the Russians eye to eye about. Now he did give a few cute speeches doing that big bad saber rattling, but reality is, Carter as a president was a total disaster. A total disaster, and to re-iterate in case someone does not get it,  A TOTAL DISASTER.

A few reminders below, quotes of the worse President in the history of the United States:  Read carefully please?

"The single biggest factor in the inflation rate last year, the increase in the inflation rate last year, was from one cause: the skyrocketing prices of OPEC oil. We must take whatever actions are necessary to reduce our dependence on foreign oil--and at the same time reduce inflation." -- Carter  (skyrocketing oil prices? I thought this was only a BUSH issue!! Oh how easy the American public is yanked into believing bullshit and forget the truth)

"I'm determined that the United States will remain the strongest of all nations, but our power will never be used to initiate a threat to the security of any nation or to the rights of any human being"--Carter  (in other words, rogue countries can crap all over us and we wont do anything but get some of that wonderful Neville Chamberlain mentality in our system)

"The American people are making progress in energy conservation. Last year we reduced overall petroleum consumption by 8 percent and gasoline consumption by 5 percent below what it was the year before. Now we must do more."-- Carter  (whats NOT being said here is things like the Japanese autos explosion > Autos with 4 cylinder engines  are now being imported in massive shiploads and Americans are buying them up left and right to deal with the out of control gas prices. The gigantic 8 cylinder engines are becoming a dinosaur. Not to mention an American car at that time was usually a total piece of crap that one was lucky to get 4 years usage out of it and the big 3 auto makers wanted you to be a good lil American patriot, wave your little flags, and go buy another  piece of crap every 4 years.. Ever head of a little company called DATSUN???  Then along came the Toyota, then Nissan and Isuzu not long after?  The Japanese built themselves a  wealthy ass nation off our weakness for that foreign oil. Thats the real truth about energy conservation no one talks about. Carter policy my ass!! Common  Laws of Economics and Consumption ran with this baby 

Should I also mention  US sovereignty over the Panama Canal Zone was given away?  American hands died digging and developing that canal, as well as American money was spent building it. Carter gave it away like one would give away tomatoes to the next door neighbor. What a blunder!! What if a nonfriendly government in Panama takes it over and tells us we cannot use the same canal we built?? What are we going to do? Negotiate for years and years? Make big bad sabre-rattling speeches? YEP!!! And in the end, we still do not use the canal, do we? 


Carter speaking about Bush`s Presidency,  is definitely the pot calling the kettle black. I remember the 70s all too well.  I remember eating alot of dried beans and corn bread (and sometimes potatoes if we were lucky) during his era, ok?  Carter was such a weak and wimpy president I am surprised even to this day that we as a nation are not speaking RUSSIAN, and I am not joking about that one single bit.   The most hapless idiot to ever live in the White House is trying to pin HIS OWN LEGACY of being the worse President upon Bush is a sham and a flat out lie.  Bush has his faults, but compared to Carter, that comment doesnt hold water. 

I did not even touch the subject of the economy of his time. Except for bean eating and an occasional treat to some potatoes.

""Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to you that are wise in your own eyes, and prudent in your own conceits." -- Isaiah  (Something Carter should have crammed up his ignorant asshole until he gets it)




Nosathro -> RE: President Jimmy Carter: Bush's impact "worst in history" (5/21/2007 10:32:19 AM)

Now Carter states his statments were "careless" this is not unusal for him.  During his campain for the Presidency he was often critized for talking out of both sides of his mouth.  If he said something that got a negative response he then made a counter statement supporting the oppsite position.  Remember he was a big supporter of busing to achieve racial equality in public schools but sent Amie to a Private School.




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