RE: D/s and Death

RE: D/s and Death (Full Version)

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domiguy -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 9:42:00 AM)
God it is hard to post and not come off as being rather callous when addressing a topic such as this one....If parents pass on who have reached an attained age where their demise is something that could be reasonably expected I don't know if it is at all logical or even healthy to be completely devastated at their passing. I would think that most people would be saddened by their loss but incredibly thankful for the time that they were able to share with such wonderful people. A death can be a tragic life altering event especially if we are talking about a parent with young children or the death of a child. But the fact is all of our parents will die and if you asked them they would tell you that they would much rather precede their children then viceversa....We live in a land that celebrates birth but for some reason we are not exceptionally good at dealing with death...And yet it awaits for us all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with grieving over the loss of a loved one, however, when that loss becomes a paralyzing moment that might be the time to seek out some professional help because you are not dealing with your loss in a healthy, or realistic manner.

RavenMuse -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 10:21:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy however, when that loss becomes a paralyzing moment that might be the time to seek out some professional help because you are not dealing with your loss in a healthy, or realistic manner. Hopefully this won't derail the thread too much but was simply struck by a cultural diffrence here...... "seek out professional help" for grief... just struck Me as SO steriotypicaly American (yep like any steriotypical attribution it is likely to be well away from the actual truth for the majority!). My peer group over here in the UK, if someone wasn't dealing with their grief in a healthy manner it would be a friend giving them a kick in the arse and a wake-up call back to reality.... not a professional. Or in the terms of a D/s relationship, if it where My girl who wasn't dealing then it would be ME working at straightening her head out and helping her come to terms with the loss.

zindyslave -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 10:54:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy God it is hard to post and not come off as being rather callous when addressing a topic such as this one....If parents pass on who have reached an attained age where their demise is something that could be reasonably expected I don't know if it is at all logical or even healthy to be completely devastated at their passing. I would think that most people would be saddened by their loss but incredibly thankful for the time that they were able to share with such wonderful people. A death can be a tragic life altering event especially if we are talking about a parent with young children or the death of a child. But the fact is all of our parents will die and if you asked them they would tell you that they would much rather precede their children then viceversa....We live in a land that celebrates birth but for some reason we are not exceptionally good at dealing with death...And yet it awaits for us all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with grieving over the loss of a loved one, however, when that loss becomes a paralyzing moment that might be the time to seek out some professional help because you are not dealing with your loss in a healthy, or realistic manner. Just because the death of a parent is expected doesn't mean it won't hurt as bad as it does when it isn't expected. We can still be happy for the time we had with that person but just because we grieve doesn't mean we aren't thankful for all the things we shared with them. I had a bond with my Father that I have never had with anyone so when he passed ( I might should add that it was very unexpected) it hurt to an extent that I had never experienced. I think no matter what age the parent is it will hurt when they go esspecially if the parent wasn't sick enough to expect death so soon. As far as getting professional help for the grief, what can they offer that a loved one; ie: friend or family member, can't? I would much better have a family member, or as I dealt with this not so long ago, I had my Master there to help me through this and I am still dealing with it and if I need to cry he is there a therapist doesn't know the close bond me and my Father had, my Master does, it makes a difference to me about how to deal with the grief. Okay, getting off my soapbox so to speak and sorry if this doesn't make much sense but it kinda hit a bad spot in my mind and I had to comment on it.

domiguy -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 12:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zindyslave quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy God it is hard to post and not come off as being rather callous when addressing a topic such as this one....If parents pass on who have reached an attained age where their demise is something that could be reasonably expected I don't know if it is at all logical or even healthy to be completely devastated at their passing. I would think that most people would be saddened by their loss but incredibly thankful for the time that they were able to share with such wonderful people. A death can be a tragic life altering event especially if we are talking about a parent with young children or the death of a child. But the fact is all of our parents will die and if you asked them they would tell you that they would much rather precede their children then viceversa....We live in a land that celebrates birth but for some reason we are not exceptionally good at dealing with death...And yet it awaits for us all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with grieving over the loss of a loved one, however, when that loss becomes a paralyzing moment that might be the time to seek out some professional help because you are not dealing with your loss in a healthy, or realistic manner. Just because the death of a parent is expected doesn't mean it won't hurt as bad as it does when it isn't expected. We can still be happy for the time we had with that person but just because we grieve doesn't mean we aren't thankful for all the things we shared with them. I had a bond with my Father that I have never had with anyone so when he passed ( I might should add that it was very unexpected) it hurt to an extent that I had never experienced. I think no matter what age the parent is it will hurt when they go esspecially if the parent wasn't sick enough to expect death so soon. As far as getting professional help for the grief, what can they offer that a loved one; ie: friend or family member, can't? I would much better have a family member, or as I dealt with this not so long ago, I had my Master there to help me through this and I am still dealing with it and if I need to cry he is there a therapist doesn't know the close bond me and my Father had, my Master does, it makes a difference to me about how to deal with the grief. Okay, getting off my soapbox so to speak and sorry if this doesn't make much sense but it kinda hit a bad spot in my mind and I had to comment on it. Great...Good for you...I stated specifically if someone becomes "paralyzed"....People die. It is unhealthy to stay fixated on the death of any individual...I can only imagine that when someone dies that family members would come together at that time....If someone becomes "PARALYZED" it means that whatever means that they have utilized as a coping method has not worked. People on the whole are idiots they speak in terms as if they are the only ones who have experienced "loss" or "have loved so deeply"....Get over yourselves!!! No one is that special! We all die!!! There are people who thrive in chaos and drama and these are the people who will manufacture someone elses death into somehow being about "them." While the majority of the world moves on, it is these cocksucking, mother fuckers that you have to keep your eyes on....They are selfish and manipulative and care not about the deceased but are only out to take the opportunity to garnish some emotional support from others that in far too many cases has no foundation. Move on get over it! It's a shame but people die...Take your time, do your grieving but please don't talk about your relationship as being something unique that no one else could understand....You are just a speck on this Earth.

spanklette -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 12:25:53 PM)
Even as harsh as you come off...I have to agree. When I lost my father...it was expected, but the memory of the phone call still makes my blood run cold. For a moment in time, I felt alone in my grief. Then, I remembered my mother who had lost her mate of over 25 years. I picked myself up by the bootstraps with the help of my ex-husband and we supported ourselves through the grief. I still grieve, but in the sense that I'd love to talk to him again, or ask his advice. But, when I had to take a look at my grief versus the grief of those around me, I had to really get a grip. I wasn't the only one who knew the man. I have brothers and a sister who grieved just as deeply. I will admit that my world got a little colder that day, but sometimes life is cold and hard. Death comes with it. I haven't gotten over it, but I have moved on. I think maybe, that's the difference that you're looking for. Maybe not. Maybe I'm reading too much into your post...but it did make sense to me, at least. People lose loved ones every day. Grief is one-sided and selfish, but sometimes you need to be selfish for a while. I know I did.

CreativeDominant -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 5:10:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub I was thinking a few nights back upon my parents, and the absolute devastation that I will undergo when they pass on. Then I began to wonder how others in a D/s relationship handled such..Did the relationship help them through this hard time? And if so how? What does the D do when his/her submissive is in such a turmoil? Does he/she keep to the prescribed dynamic without wavering? Possibly for a sense of stability in a time of instability?..Or does one put all on hold and wait for the storm to pass?.Have any here experienced this, on either side of the slash ,and how was it handled?.......Tempting I lost my father when I was age 30. I lost my mother at age 37. Twenty-two years ago for him and fifteen years ago for her. I can still think about the good times we had and feel a real churning inside. Luckily...or unluckily...for me, there are all the bad times that come from living with two parents such as mine to balance out that tug. They died before I got into D/s. My ex, who was still my wife at the time, helped me tremendously. She expected me to act as the ums' father and as her partner but not in any pressured sense. But there came a time, due to the convolutions of both estates, when I had to pick myself up and set my grief aside and deal with life. I began coming around more and more. It is difficult to say how long a person should set things aside. The D/s dynamic is always what it is and should be respected. I would seriously question the idea of setting it completely aside just as I would seriously question expecting the submissive or the dominant to live up to their part completely and with no change. But everyone has to find their own way. I would say that for me, it depends greatly on the circumstances...elderly parents who've lived a good long life...I would not expect as much grieving as I would from someone whose parents died unexpectedly in a car crash when they are my age or younger. And I could go on. I agree with L. A. that parents...just like everything else...should be talked about in a relationship dynamic. If they are gone, like mine, then I no longer have the concerns about their deaths but I do deal with their loss from time to time, especially at certain times.

zindyslave -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 5:34:28 PM)
Well, I picked my self up and went to my mom when I found out my Dad had passed I didn't let it overcome me because I knew my mom needed my strength to help her through this, my brother was greiving too and if not for him and I my mom would have lost herself in her grief I am not saying being paralyzed in your grief is a good thing maybe I misunderstood the post, I just don't think professional help is the answer for anyone when they have lost a loved one, as an example my Mom was told a month after my Dad passed that she should be over it by a professional therapist sometimes you don't need professional help for it, sometimes you just need time and prospective on a situation. I still grieve but I go on with my life too I haven't stopped cold in my tracks and just can't move on, life goes on and I know we will all die, but everyone has different ways of handling it and I don't think a therapist is the answer unless of course they have no one else to talk to. domiguy, if you were referring to me in the last sentence of you last post about talking about my relationship as being unique and special....I don't beleive I was I was trying to show how much that hurt and that I have dealt with it and that others can too without having professional help. If it wasn't directed at me then please forgive my assumptions.

denika -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 6:25:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy ..Get over yourselves!!! No one is that special! We all die!!! Move on get over it! It's a shame but people die...Take your time, do your grieving but please don't talk about your relationship as being something unique that no one else could understand....You are just a speck on this Earth. Wow..... I'm sorry but you seem really angry and more than a touch callous towards this topic. You are right death happens, infact I deal with it on a weekly, sometimes even daily basis in my line of work. So I get that part.but each person, stranger or not, their death is still something--not just more fertalizer for the bone yard. It should be unique, and yes we all die and that sucks but to clump everyone all together and just shrug and say 'aw well more worm bait don't sweat it, cope and move on' seems a bit cold--too put it mildly it's nearly hostile. The part where greif is paralyzing is when our friends /spouces/Masters/Doms/ Tops-pick the term, step up and help us find our feet again. If weeks turn into months and there is still the inability to function, then yes I agree, maybe they should talk to someone. You have some valid points it's just the delivery system, I gotta say comes off pretty harsh when dealing with a topic that is sensitive to most people. denika

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 7:46:48 PM)
I feel the grief process is individualistic..we all have our manner and ways of grieving, and you also must take into account your particular relationship with that person who has passed.The connection to my parents is strong, their connection to each other is strong, well over 50 years together, and yes you can say they have had a good life. But at least in my dynamic with them, my Father has always been my protector, my touchstone, and my Mother has always been and always will be my best friend, my best advisor. These 2 people hold many cherished memories, that when they go, there will no longer be another to share these particular memories with. The reminiscing and laughter will be gone. They are the keepers of my past. And to imagine going days without talking with them, or going to see them, or to hold or hug them, just seems almost unimaginable. Of course the adult in me knows this is the circle of life, but the child in me finds acceptance of such abhorrent.....Tempting

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s and Death (5/21/2007 8:39:50 PM)
Actually my perspective is a lot like Domiguys, and I think he's right- there's just no way to say it without sounding really callous and insensitive, maybe even angry. But that's because how I cope with tragedy like that is to just get stuff done and go back to work. Keep it structured and focused so that I have some touch stone to reality. I mourn, for a long time, but in my way. Hearing about other people just falling apart doesn't make sense to me, although perhaps if my partner or my nephews died I'd understand it more becuase I am certain I'd be unable to function beyond the necessities at that point.

ownedgirlie -> RE: D/s and Death (5/22/2007 7:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Hearing about other people just falling apart doesn't make sense to me, although perhaps if my partner or my nephews died I'd understand it more becuase I am certain I'd be unable to function beyond the necessities at that point. About a year and a half ago a friend's husband died and I couldn't possibly understand or relate to what she was going through, or how it changed her somehow. And that's the kicker. Sometimes, try as we might, we simply can not understand what it is to experience something we have not experienced ourselves. It is true, people die. Every flippin' day, people die. Last week a friend of mine lost his daughter, just two years after he lost his wife. I can not possibly relate to the way his heart is ripped open right now. But yes, people die. I wasn't allowed to become debillitated when my Dad died. I was allowed to grieve him, yes, but I was expected to keep living. The thing is, while I miss him terribly and with the events currently going on in my life I really want to curl up into him for comfort, what ails me most is not that he is gone, it is in how I watched him suffer so greatly with bone cancer before he died. There are images that just don't leave your mind. So when I say I'm grieving my father, it's not just that I miss him. It's that I can't get over him vomiting blood all over me, or screaming bloody murder when I so much as touched his foot, begging me to "make it stop!!!" Or cleaning him as he cried after defacating all over himself because his colon gave out. This, coming from a man who was once a 6'1, stocky bald Naval officer who scared the crap out of my boyfriends. So to those who say "hey everyone dies, get over it" I gently ask that you have some compassion on those who are grieving, because generally there's more to the picture than meets the eye.

KnightofMists -> RE: D/s and Death (5/22/2007 7:51:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub Then I began to wonder how others in a D/s relationship handled such..Did the relationship help them through this hard time? And if so how? What does the D do when his/her submissive is in such a turmoil? Does he/she keep to the prescribed dynamic without wavering? Possibly for a sense of stability in a time of instability?..Or does one put all on hold and wait for the storm to pass?.Have any here experienced this, on either side of the slash ,and how was it handled?.......Tempting I honestly don't think the dynamic really matters. How a person and a given relationship will handle grief is going to be rather subjective. For myself, my experience with a good friend when his wife past away and my experience with denika when her mom past away... well the fact that I embraced the relationship that existed between us was what helped the most. I did what was expected of me within the given relationship. I was supportative and I gave what I had to give for these individuals. I believe the key was being me with that specific relationship. I think that is what they need and wanted from me most of all. It is how I will approach the situation with my girls when the time comes and it is what I expect from my girls when the time comes.

zindyslave -> RE: D/s and Death (5/22/2007 8:10:44 PM)
ownedgirlie, I agree with you completely and I was trying to get something like that across but I guess it came out wrong or something. That was a great way to put it.

CuriousLord -> RE: D/s and Death (5/22/2007 8:27:19 PM)
It's hard to lose a parent. It won't be a good thing. I pray such things never happen, but it's been in my thoughts, too.

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