RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:43:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
bummer they moved the page, i am interested to see how they can get that kind of accuracy with vitually zero degrees minute of angle.


or you could do a web search (google, hotbot, dogpile) and read about it yourself; just an idea.



yah that works pretty good if you have a specific title or phrasology LOL   you missed my point



CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:47:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

(editted in)ORGINAL: luckydog1 to CuriousLord(/edit)
Last thought, you assert there is no chance of things happening that can not, regardless of how many times it is played out.  Perhaps it is not an acutal possabillity for God to die, that is what Christian theology would hold.


I'm not sure if it's funny or sad or what that I was thinking about this thread during my pilgrimmage to the coffee shop today, but I more or less landed on the same point. It would seem to me that God's dying would have to be a perceived rather than an actual possibility. Time is still unfolding, after all, so we don't yet know what will happen. We're like people watching a movie (for the first time) who don't yet know if the title character will be alive at the closing credits.

Thought of something else that has me a bit muddled, since I'm admittedly not a logician. A key part of the proof seems to be that God must die and thus is not immortal. But something that has never existed can't die, so the proof appears to be at odds with itself.


I'm going to let the "if God will die"/validity-of-statistics argument go.. I'm not sure if we're willing and able to come to an agreed conclusion on it.

For the proof part, though, the proof's saying that, since God can't be immortal, but part of his definition is that he is immortal, he can't exist by definition, making him defined as fictional.  (Being the conclusion of the proof, that God isn't real.)



ladyleopard945 -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:51:01 AM)

Well there was a ENGLISH Poet and playwrite that said ( in one of his plays ) you must be insane to be sane.  Many geniuses have been outcast in the school setting because they did not fit.... I am a ex-teacher...I know the school system wants children to be square and fit into squre holes...   It does not work!  That is why I left.  Between the chemicals we ingest threw plastics and cans.... artficial sugar..... hydrogenated..... mono....the geniuses of the past are soon to fade away because we kill ourselves with what we consume ..... autism and all the other things that keep showing up we as a society are distroying ourselves.

now off the subject of the OP yet mentioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO the fact is that if you do not learn from the past you are bound to relive it....Nero played his fiddle while Rome burned .... As our politicians (and I blaim most of them) let the war continue...I have had people die there for what????? fuel is at $3.53

And Social security was mentioned.....
Fact in the late 1960's there was an excess
fact those who have not put a dime in collect (these are not children of US citizens) people brought over by their Green card relatives who collect
food stamps paid out to people who are not citizens of the United States  Yet I have friends that cant put a meal on the table for thier kids and there have been here for 6 or more generations.
I am ranting sorry!

Leopard



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:54:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'm going to let the "if God will die"/validity-of-statistics argument go.. I'm not sure if we're willing and able to come to an agreed conclusion on it.

For the proof part, though, the proof's saying that, since God can't be immortal, but part of his definition is that he is immortal, he can't exist by definition, making him defined as fictional.  (Being the conclusion of the proof, that God isn't real.)


if god were to die than you can no longer use the label god since god by definition cannot die.  you are then forced to use a different label




CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:55:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'm going to let the "if God will die"/validity-of-statistics argument go.. I'm not sure if we're willing and able to come to an agreed conclusion on it.

For the proof part, though, the proof's saying that, since God can't be immortal, but part of his definition is that he is immortal, he can't exist by definition, making him defined as fictional.  (Being the conclusion of the proof, that God isn't real.)


if god were to die than you can no longer use the label god since god by definition cannot die.  you are then forced to use a different label



Which means that the thing previously considered, incorrectly, "God" wasn't a God, nor is anything else.  Which means God can't exist.



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:57:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyleopard945

NO the fact is that if you do not learn from the past you are bound to relive it....Nero played his fiddle while Rome burned .... As our politicians (and I blaim most of them) let the war continue...I have had people die there for what????? fuel is at $3.53

And Social security was mentioned.....
Fact in the late 1960's there was an excess
fact those who have not put a dime in collect (these are not children of US citizens) people brought over by their Green card relatives who collect
food stamps paid out to people who are not citizens of the United States  Yet I have friends that cant put a meal on the table for thier kids and there have been here for 6 or more generations.
I am ranting sorry!

Leopard



not to mention the gov dips in any time they want against the will of the people and spends it on bullshit, but hey the gove kows best now it broke DUH!



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 11:59:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'm going to let the "if God will die"/validity-of-statistics argument go.. I'm not sure if we're willing and able to come to an agreed conclusion on it.

For the proof part, though, the proof's saying that, since God can't be immortal, but part of his definition is that he is immortal, he can't exist by definition, making him defined as fictional.  (Being the conclusion of the proof, that God isn't real.)


if god were to die than you can no longer use the label god since god by definition cannot die.  you are then forced to use a different label



Which means that the thing previously considered, incorrectly, "God" wasn't a God, nor is anything else.  Which means God can't exist.


Wrong if what someone thought was god was determined not to be god that is merely an error in judgement and does nothing to negate the existance of god or change the definition that god is immortal.

If god is defined as being immortal then there is no rationalizing it differently and still have "like kind".



Termyn8or -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 1:38:15 PM)

Real, nobody is going to read all those links. Thanks for the time and effort though.

Anyway, I do not believe in anything. I have come to the realization that believing in something is an illogical term, you either believe something or you don't. Believing 'in' something seems to be a catchall phrase for getting convinced without facts.

However arguing the existence of God is something that will never be resolved.

First of all so you know where I am coming from, I do not believe that the Godhead as described exists. That is not to say I do not believe there is nothing. To sum up my belief, the quickest way to put it is that our universe is God, and neither he nor she, and never speaks, save for the laws of nature. We are but an infinitesimal part of this being we call the universe, like a cell in a body. To embrace this type of belief you have to be able to comprehend things many cannot, but it seems crystal clear to me.

I will not comment on the afterrlife at this time, I will focus on pure logic. To whit I offer up the following :

The only thing that is truly impossible is to prove that something is impossible.

Now I am not talking the mundane here. Of course things can never be as tight as a gnat's ass stretched of a 55 gallon drum, things like that, I an talking the esoteric. In short, one would have to be omnipresent to give an absolute assurance that something doesn't exist. We are not.

So, if I am wrong in my beliefs I will go to hell. At least I won't be lonely :-)

T



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 2:15:58 PM)

well i can understand people arguing the existance of god, thats all fair game, but arguing the immortality of god is a contrdiction in terms.

It makes me wonder if doublethink isnt some kind of crisis of epidemic proportions in the academic world now days.



Termyn8or -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 3:39:23 PM)

"It makes me wonder if doublethink isnt some kind of crisis of epidemic proportions in the academic world now days. "

Interesting, but I think something different than the Orwellian concept of doublespeak. I think the complexity of life brings on what you might term doublethink. Doublespeak has a negative connotation, that it is lying. And it is. I would not assign that attribute to doublethink just yet.

It may be that life is really not that complex, just that we are unable to grasp it because of our own deficiencies. Now when you can design and build houses, and electronic equipment and understand all of this esoteric science, and have doubts about your capabilities, you obviously know there is something more.

Indeed in my life every answer brought up more questions, unless it was something like spelling. And I wholly agree with CL, I wish there were more people in the world who think like me. That is to say think correctly and concisely and in a focussed manner. Problem solvers. I can't do it all. We need others who do not act irrationally, and plenty of sane people do. To illustrate, your normal sheeple, take their cable and blockbuster bills and it is like a fucking car payment ! How sane is that ? And how much time does that take away from real communication, which is how most learning gets done, and the introspection that every person needs to do from time to time ?

Now we got CL over there who says he is hiding from the world right now, and will sober up when good and ready. Well you got the vacation time or the balls to take a week off, great. If that is what you need have it. I drink and I smoke 'mother nature' every day. EVERY day. I am straight at work, but my time is my time.

I have found overall that certain substance abusers are indeed quite intelligent. They just can't handle reality. Sheeple can see someone doing something stoooooooooopid and laugh. When someone really smart sees it, the reaction is different.

I think the real reason that the line is so fine between genius and insanity is that some just can't handle it. For example how I see world leaders, I bet that only about ½ of you can see it, how nasty they are. Some of you think you see the whole picture.

Let me tell you how shitty people can be. King David. He sent his loyal soldier and supposed friend into a battle in which he was almost sure to die, for the sole purpose to take his Wife.

If we take that, and not much else, the only possible conclusion is that Man's inhumanity to Man is a natural thing. Of course that was outlined in the Protocols, but noone seems interested. I read it, it was written by one of THEM, plain and simple. The ideas put forth hold true today, it is truer than the Bible hands down.

But people reject it, even in the face of reality, or to put it more aptly, seemingly in the face of reality. CL, you might want to take me up on this. Even you will find yourself backing up and rereading things.

Anyway, if any genius is crazy, we are all crazy. Look at us. We are everything your Parents ever warned you about. And some of us think we are Godz, but in reality, we are machines.

Yes I know the song.

T



CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 3:39:39 PM)

I.. wasn't aware this was such a difficult concept.. my apologies.

To offer an example of nonexistence through contrived definition, let's make something up that can't exist.

Since I've been reading a lot of D&D comics lately, let's call it.. a Oxygon elemental.

An "Oxygon elemental" is an elemental- or mass of an element- that is made animate through magic.  An elemental is typically almost entirely composed of its personal element.  In the case of an Oxygon elemental, there are two: Oxygen and Argon.  The elemental is entirely made up, by definition, of Oxygen.  The elemental is also made up, entirely, or Argon.

The definition is conflicted, as nothing can be made up of both Oxygen and Argon solely.  This is an indisputable contradiction.  Not just something that's rare.  If it were made up of Oxygen, it would have no Argon!  If it were made up of Argon, it would have no Oxygen!

Therefore, without having seen the entire universe, I can safely assure you that an Oxygon elemental does not exist.

As for God, God, Christian, is defined as immortal.  I've made a cite to prove this.  I've proven immortality is an impossibility, so no instances of "God" may occur by definition.

Now, do not misunderstand me.  There may be a super-power alien being from a greater part of the universe, which we are yet unable to perceive, who constructed this world, and, for some inconceivable reason, is interested in human beings.  This being may be powerful and intelligent beyond any wild speculation we might be able to make.  Entire worlds may spring into existence, with complexity beyond the scope of our feeble imaginations, at the being's almost unnoticed whim.

However, this being is not immortal.  It may be the one old religions refer to as such, but it does not meet the Christian definition of "God", as it can't be.  Nothing can be immortal- despite however vast, powerful, or wonderful it is.



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 3:53:33 PM)

well you cannot necesarily apply math or chemical logic to theology and expect to come up with correct answers.

may wish to send your questions to father obrien one of the catholic churches better theologians.  i was actually impressed with some of his work.

think metaphysics



CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:08:22 PM)

You're right.  Screw logic.  It just, for magical reasons, doesn't work at all.

Earlier in this thread, I ranted about how lonely it is for people not to understand things that seem blantantly obvious.  The loss for ability to understand how people aren't able to get things.

This proof was one of the simpliest theories I've ever devised.  Freaking ten minutes of careless thought while I was probably playing a game of WarCraft III.  Even one person not getting it after careful explanation is confounding to me.

I mean, seriously.  Okay, not getting the logic at first is okay.  I didn't explain myself very completely, or where I was going with it.  But to just tell me logic can't apply for no reason other than you don't like the conclusion?  This is how Einstein defined insanity!  I don't want anyone to say, "Oh, you're so smart."  I want someone to say, "Yeah, I get it."  Or, "Cool, that works."  "Hey, that reminds me of this thought I had.. <insert logical deduction>."  But just saying, "Hey, let's screw logic!"?

Some commentary, such as from dcnovice (among others, just most recently), was pretty neat.  I think Statistics is an odd course.  I felt like an idiot for not being able to explain the bigger picture I'm trying to express (which I'm still trying to find words for, btw, I haven't given up on it yet), but that's cool.  It was great to think about, and his questions and comments were intelligent.

My theory's not that major.  So the Christian God doesn't exist.  There may be a mortal version (probably not omnipotent, though, since that's also a contradictory idea in the absolute) that's a lot like what they believed in.  As far I know, they could well have contact with this being, and it may even listen to each of their prayers.  It just isn't God, proper.

And this, my friends, is where I get my angst from. </rant>



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:19:59 PM)

hey i do not claim to "believe in god", but i maintain that god exists by definition and within that definition god is immortal.

i am not saying throw logic out the window i am saying you cant hit it with a sledge hammer and expect to be correct.

i gave you the name of one of the better theologians who can i am sure explain it to your satisfaction or dissappointment which ever.





CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:24:58 PM)

If you don't believe in God.. why are you confident someone can explain to me how he must exist..?



Real0ne -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:26:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

If you don't believe in God.. why are you confident someone can explain to me how he must exist..?


iot seems to me the dispute was over immortality



Lordandmaster -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:29:41 PM)

So have we figured out why CuriousLord is insane yet?

Just ribbin' ya.



Sinergy -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:30:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'm going to let the "if God will die"/validity-of-statistics argument go.. I'm not sure if we're willing and able to come to an agreed conclusion on it.

For the proof part, though, the proof's saying that, since God can't be immortal, but part of his definition is that he is immortal, he can't exist by definition, making him defined as fictional.  (Being the conclusion of the proof, that God isn't real.)


if god were to die than you can no longer use the label god since god by definition cannot die.  you are then forced to use a different label




Keirkegaard would point out that if you label God, you negate him.

Sinergy



CuriousLord -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:31:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So have we figured out why CuriousLord is insane yet?

Just ribbin' ya.


Trying to do something over and over, hoping for a different result?
The something being logic, the different result being understanding?



Termyn8or -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (5/27/2007 4:43:45 PM)

Nice CL, you make a good case, but not the point. Now I have no religious beliefs, just so you know where I am coming from, perhaps as a devil's advocate so to speak,.I am talking pure empirical logic here. I have had to learn how to do this in my profession, I do alot of reverse engineering of electronic equipment.

Resolved : There is an old guy on a planet 100 million miles away, he has like fifty TV screens and watches our every move. He controls the weather and certain other things. He is God.

Rebuttal : That is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, but you cannot disprove it until you have been to every planet that is 100 million miles away and seen every nook and cranny, every spot, every cave or whatever on each and every planet that is exactly 100 million miles away.

Other facts can sway the logic one way or the other, but the core logic never changes, it is actually as stable as simple mathematics. All the shit they load up on you in school doesn't mean a thing, they are merely presenters of information, you draw your own conclusions, and if your logic is true, so shall be your answers. Of course I also recognize the need to tell them what they want to hear to get the grade, but that does not change logic. Nothing does.

You will never disprove the existence of God to me, even though I believe God does not exist. I mean we agree, but I know that proof does not exist. Religion turns me off. Take the Bible for example, there are books of Jobe, John, George, Tom, Dick and Harry, why is there no book of Jesus ? What was he fucking illiterate ? He was a carpenter for Christ's sake (wow). He had to know something. He couldn't write at all, even for example "Treat each other good", not even that ? Even on their own face they fall from my grace. I cannot believe anything that is illogical. I simply can't do it.

I also cannot dismiss the possibility that God exists on the EXACT same grounds. Actually I think we should abandon the subject and move on to more practical discussion, like why we are all nuts. It would be much more fruitful to explore what is going on in the here and now, ON THIS PLANET, before worrying about something that may or may not come after our death, unless it is to better the world for our progeny.

And if you have no kids, don't think you don't have progeny. That is a big mistake everone makes. Each and every adult has a duty to all children, to at least do no harm and to enlighten them as much as possible. As far as I am concerned, anyone who doesn't agree with that is not a member of the human race. Strong words, but I am known for that.

In my view, the human race could soar in intellect, if the children are given the proper base for knowledge. And at the root of that is morality. Modern people think that morality is based in religion, and that is one of the biggest mistakes they make. The 'Golden Rule' is not even in the Bible. And there is also no mention of 'The Trilogy'. Even if the book were sacred, some things are simply not there, and other have been ridiculously mis-interpreted. Onanism. Supposedly God got pissed off at Onan for jacking off, so none of us can jack off. RIDICULOUS ! Even there, there is more to the story and if IIRC God wanted Onan to have a son to do something or other. Onan said fuck you.

But don't tell a preacher that, he will take you 1,000 pages away and befuddle you with other passages. And that is how the world works, people buy this shit. People buy anything, and religion today, like almost anything else, is on sale. Get it now while supplies last.

They are selling it. And nothing happens until something is sold.

Enough for now, later, need beer.

T



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