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RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 4:36:16 PM

Sinergy

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Kumbaya.

I blame my years as a camp counselor.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 81

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 4:45:32 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

there are only three "races", Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid.

I think many scientists are skeptical of the whole concept of 'race," though I don't have a source handy.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 82

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 4:48:29 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

I'm starting to like that "one race" thing!
It doesn't matter what your race is, we're all the human race.

Amen.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 83

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 5:37:52 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

there are only three "races", Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid.

I think many scientists are skeptical of the whole concept of 'race," though I don't have a source handy.

Like EVERY SINGLE PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST.

Race is a term which doesn't exist in the science of studying human beings. The "Fake Sciences" love it though.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 84

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:36:08 PM

lockedaway

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You couldn't be more wrong. What I will say now was addressed to you in a post once before. Yes, you strengthen the boarders. That goes without saying. But you also make illegal immigration part of local law enforcement. Illegal aliens aliens have the same problems as any other citizen: they speed; the drive while intoxicated: they shoplift: they assault, they commit acts of domestic violence; they fail to get their car inspected (and almost never insure it), etc. When local police determine that someone pulled over is not an American citizen, they take them into custody and an emergent removal proceeding is held within 72 hours and the person is deported. What you don't catch at the boarder you catch violating some law in the U.S. Don't look at boarder security in a vacuum. A thousand things need to be done to protect this country and you don't look at just one of them.

Moreover, you can't compare the containment of illegal immigration to the war on drugs and you know that. A drug comes in, it is distributed, consumed and it is gone. A human being is entirely a different issue. A human being consumes every service offered by this country and enforcing a modicum of checks and balances insures that the person here illegally is going to come into contact with law enforcement.

Look, no one is against immigrants of any stripe. Well....I dunno after the latest poll of American Islamists...that is pretty scary. Anyway, you come to the country illegally, you embrace its ideals and you go to work building a career, growing a family and acquiring property. If you can't be here legally, you can't be here. We certainly have the resources and the ability to curb illegal immigration. The nefarious issue is that illegal immigration benefits certain A) political parties, B) religions, C) employers, etc. The aforementioned gernerally care more about they position in the polls, congregation or bottom line MUCH more than they care about their country.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 85

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:42:43 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

A drug comes in, it is distributed, consumed and it is gone. A human being is entirely a different issue

Not to the Corporations who exploit them. They are a commodity, like any other.

Do you think they give a shit about an off-the-books employee who falls off a roof and breaks their back?

Not likely.

In fact, since it requires 5 large to buy your way in, I see a LOT of people getting into Slavery ( and not the consensual kind we practice here... ) by fronting these people the money, then locking them away in a "Company Town", with the excuse of "You need to pay off the debt you owe me, but I'll let you run a tab at the Store.... "

And I surely can compare the Law Enforcement Industries vested interest in the "War on Drugs" to the Department of Homeland Security's vested interest in the "War on Illegal Immigrants"... The motive of PROFIT FOR FEDERAL CONTRACTORS to the tune of billions is all anyone needs to get whatever legislation they desire passed.

Military-Industrial-Prison Complex. Hey, aren't prison companies running the detention centers for them anyway?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 86

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:43:49 PM

lockedaway

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You shouldn't have too much of a problem with what Buchannen said about the "black being uiquely Amercian" since it was also said by W.E.B. Dubois and ..... Griffin? I don't know, but he makes a very good point. Blacks are Americans who suffered from slavery and segration. The Irish were taken right off of the boat, conscripted into military service, put on the front line...unsupported and allowed to be masacred. The Italians were just plain treated like shit for years and years. But all of them in this country are all distinctly and uniquely American. I think this country was a lot more nationalistic when it had conscription but that's another topic.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 87

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:48:11 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

Look, no one is against immigrants of any stripe. Well....I dunno after the latest poll of American Islamists...that is pretty scary.

Was that the one about 25 percent of younger U.S. Muslims supporting suicide bombers? That was disturbing indeed. Then again, the bulk of the survey results, from what little I've read of them, seemed to say the most U.S. Muslims share fairly mainstream values.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 5/23/2007 6:49:01 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to lockedaway)

Post #: 88

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:49:40 PM

lockedaway

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Wow...Fargle....are you trying to miscontrue what I wrote? The guy who falls off of the roof gets taken to a hospital where he has to be treated. Right? That hospital staff treats him but also has to get his information. They realize that he has no identification at all and so they call the local police. Right? The police determine that he is not a citizen and he is confined and deported. He is, like I said before, MUCH different than an illegal substance. In his life, he will come into contact with the police, with health care providers, with the education system, maybe the sanitation system, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Unlike a drug, which is transported, sold, consumed and then it is gone, the human being is going to be around for as long as he stays or until he dies. Right??? During that period of time he/she is going to come into contact with agencies that will identify him/her as an illegal and have the appropriate agency remove them. That was the thrust of my post, not some philosophical crap about the way drug smugglers view people.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 89

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:53:52 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

the human being is going to be around for as long as he stays or until he dies. Right???

Wrong. From the POV of the REAL economic benefit of having off-the-books workers, which is the POV of the Companies which benefit from them, once they are no longer useful, they are discarded.

Now, why these companies are PERMITTED to dump their industrial waste on just any hospital is beyond me.

I figure we fix this by permitting ANYONE, regardless of status to file a Workmans Comp claim.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 90

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 6:58:32 PM

girl4you2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

You shouldn't have too much of a problem with what Buchannen said about the "black being uiquely Amercian" since it was also said by W.E.B. Dubois and ..... Griffin? I don't know, but he makes a very good point. Blacks are Americans who suffered from slavery and segration. The Irish were taken right off of the boat, conscripted into military service, put on the front line...unsupported and allowed to be masacred. The Italians were just plain treated like shit for years and years. But all of them in this country are all distinctly and uniquely American. I think this country was a lot more nationalistic when it had conscription but that's another topic.

gracious! a girl gets a wee bit political and look at all of what hits the fan back at her. i don't support what was done to the irish when they arrived in america--genocide is never okay, whether it's being done by the british or the americans to the irish. treating any group of people in ways that are differientated isn't right, no matter the group. just as the irish arriving during the potato blight were massacred by americans who thought the irish were working just a wee bit too hard for their tastes wasn't right, so the treatment of black slaves and their descendants wasn't right either. let's look at the pot and see that it's pretty black before putting words and ideas into the mouth of another, shall we?

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Post #: 91

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:01:14 PM

lockedaway

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No...once again, you are wrong. I guess no one can speak plainly or simply enough for you. A person is in the country until he leaves or dies. That is simple enough, right? That is the reality of the situation not the philosphical sophistry you try to engage in. I used YOUR OWN EXAMPLE about the guy that fell off of the roof and came into contact with medical service providers, etc. etc. Do you understand? Unlike the drug, the person will be around for, potentially, years and years and in that time they will be put in situations where, if our system was hitting on all eight, they would be deported.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 92

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:02:09 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
But, if you're here illegally you STILL have to leave!

not having read all of these posts, except for some fairly abhorent ones, i'm not going to get into semantics, but i will ask this: at what point do we decide people in another country "illegally" have to leave? i suppose we could go wayyyyy back, and all just leave quietly if we're not native american, inuit, mexican, or other natives.

it's a global world out here. might we be better off trying to find solutions to problems in the world's countries (oh, i don't know, how about hunger, poor water, no education, limited access to health care to start) instead of how to isolate them all or divide them all up yet another way again? it's a thought, anyway.

Girl, I'm starting to hear "Cum-Bay-Ah" in the background.
You know how those things work, we'd (The U.S.) be doing ALL the giving and they'd be doing ALL the taking!
And if it's such a "Global World" out there all those illegal aliens should be looking towards Russia!
Russia is losing population.
We simply can't take in a billion or more people.
The insanity that the Senate is engaging in right now would cause this country to go into bankruptcy.
Foreign countries need to start solving their own problems and taking care of their own people.
It's really not the job description of our govt to be doing that kind of stuff!
And "Globalism" isn't about everyone in different countries being "happy" and all that crap, it's about *Big Corporations* being able to make even more money!
You don't think they invented globalism for you and me I hope?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/23/2007 7:20:42 PM >

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 93

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:07:01 PM

lockedaway

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Geez...I don't even know what you are getting at. The Protestants hated the Quakers and the Mormons were entirely outcast. All distinctly American, right? The Japanese were interned in camps during WWII, right? Just about all groups coming to this country suffered a certain amount of prejudice and stigma. But, as Buchannan said, they were educated the same, they listened to the same radio programs, they read the same papers, they watched the same news reels and these people were Americans. Despite what they went through, they loved their country and wanted to fight for it even if other members of the military didn't want to fight beside them. Do we have that esprit de' corps now? (Holy shit...I hate it when I use French for anything!!!!)

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 94

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:07:41 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

there are only three "races", Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid.

I think many scientists are skeptical of the whole concept of 'race," though I don't have a source handy.

Like EVERY SINGLE PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST.

Race is a term which doesn't exist in the science of studying human beings. The "Fake Sciences" love it though.

Fargle, please relay that message to Mecha and "La Raza".
For whatever reason they seem to think that they are a seperate "race" and that somehow that should allow them to invade our country.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 95

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:12:16 PM

lockedaway

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Oh...and another thing. I have never heard of anyone accusing the Irsish of working too hard.

That's a joke, btw.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 96

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:17:53 PM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Do we have that esprit de' corps now? (Holy shit...I hate it when I use French for anything!!!!)

By the way. It's okay to like France again...

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=182

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RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:18:17 PM

girl4you2

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quote:

Girl, I'm starting to hear "Cum-Bay-Ah" in the background.

i went to camp, too.

are we really so isolationistic so as to believe that what happens in one place won't affect another? are there not some "interesting" problems happening with soviet assassinations made easier due to a lack of support in some crucial areas as the former soviet union became reliant on capitalism (i'm not sure what they're doing now; it's kinda up in the air i've heard at the moment, but it's not in the interest of the common person i do know)? isn't there something going on in...um...iraq because we've been involved in other governments since, oh...um...the french and indian war if you want a big involvement, and far earlier with smaller "to do's" really? do we support what's happening in sudan? do we exist in a vacuum? a bubble? do you know who is the prime real estate holder in america? do you realize how much foreign debt we now have (thank you, gw)? so what do we do? just hunker down and play "keep away?" last time i checked, the oceans still circulated around the world. shipping/transport/exchange of goods is a two way street running all the way from your main street to just about any country you can think of. isolationism? okay.

edited to add that speaking of bankruptcy, if our national debt was called in by other countries all at once while we decided to play "hide and don't seek us," we'd kinda be in a fix.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/23/2007 7:22:10 PM >

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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Post #: 98

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:25:25 PM

lockedaway

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Wow...that is pretty much the only reasonable reply. I thought we were talking about Blacks being uniquely American. Ok...to address all of your other statements, remember, we are still talking about merely enforcing immigration laws. I don't know what the hell that has to do with oceans circulating the globe, frankly. But....whatever. As far as what is happening in the Sudan, the question is the same as always. Does stopping what is happening in the Sudan serve a "vital" national interest? That is, an interest worthy of having our troops fight and die to change it? Or, does what is happening in the Sudan only speak to a humanitarian interest? As far as what is happening in Iraq, some scholars says that we are there in support of "vital" national interests, which I'm not going to enumerate here but you can probably imagine a few of them. Other scholars say that we are only the protection of "important" national interests, which are a good deal less than vital. You decide. But all of that crap has NOTHING to do with protecting our borders. Nothing at all.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 99

RE: Pat Buchanan vs Adolf Hitler - 5/23/2007 7:27:33 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

Girl, I'm starting to hear "Cum-Bay-Ah" in the background.

i went to camp, too.

are we really so isolationistic so as to believe that what happens in one place won't affect another? are there not some "interesting" problems happening with soviet assassinations made easier due to a lack of support in some crucial areas as the former soviet union became reliant on capitalism (i'm not sure what they're doing now; it's kinda up in the air i've heard at the moment, but it's not in the interest of the common person i do know)? isn't there something going on in...um...iraq because we've been involved in other governments since, oh...um...the french and indian war if you want a big involvement, and far earlier with smaller "to do's" really? do we support what's happening in sudan? do we exist in a vacuum? a bubble? do you know who is the prime real estate holder in america? do you realize how much foreign debt we now have (thank you, gw)? so what do we do? just hunker down and play "keep away?" last time i checked, the oceans still circulated around the world. shipping/transport/exchange of goods is a two way street running all the way from your main street to just about any country you can think of. isolationism? okay.

edited to add that speaking of bankruptcy, if our national debt was called in by other countries all at once while we decided to play "hide and don't seek us," we'd kinda be in a fix.

Girl, the U.S.....isolationistic? You're fucking kidding me right?
With Troops in more than 130 countries?
With U.S. Corporations in probably every country?
And as far as I know we of course don't support what's going on in the Sudan but it's not our job to fix it either.
We haven't had any period of isolationism in this country in 70 years now!
After these last two idiots in the W.H. ANY isolationism would be refreshing!!!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/23/2007 7:29:24 PM >

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 100

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