RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out?

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RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 2:48:08 AM

windchymes

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There's baggage and then there's baggage, be it vanilla or D/s. Using baggage for sympathy, drama and attention at the start of any relationship isn't good. However, if it comes up in the conversation and you show that you've dealt with life's unpleasantries in a mature fashion and perhaps learned something from it, then I don't think it matters when it comes out.

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You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

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(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 21

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:01:47 AM

Copulo

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
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Yes I can go along with that windchymes.

Its all down to being a victim or a survivor. A survivor still holds baggage but has learnt how to carry it more lightly. They have often learnt to use that baggage to make them a more understanding, caring and open person. A victim is still often going through a whole heap of emotions and that often includes self pity and self pity in this lifestyle can be a very dodgy bit of baggage.
I will still say though, that the person that refuses to reveal themselves and keeps those issues deeply locked away is someone who is still who is still being controlled by their past.
The person who has no interest in listening is someone who has little empathy and compassion.
What subs should remember is, dominants often have baggage too and its harder to let go of because it can portray them to be a weaker person.

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 22

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:03:13 AM

Quivver

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First we all have to define ~baggage~ to ourself. Each and everyone here as they responded had something in mind that they considered baggage. What some might consider a back pack full, the next will see it as a steamer truck full. Then again there is also how someone handles their baggage. Is it tagging along behind them as they live their life, or are they pushing it in front of them the whole time?

I think this is another place where individual perception and self esteem play an import part in the bottom line.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 23

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:07:25 AM

sleazybutterfly

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I used to consider it baggage, now I more just consider it stuff that happened to bring to where I am in my life now. I think that M knows my past, but we don't sit around and talk about it. If I keep bringing the past back to the present, I will never be able to heal from it. I have found the more I focus on the present and the future, the more the past just seems to fade away (sort of like a bad dream). Those times had too much control of my life, I have now taken that away and regained the person I was meant to be.

_____________________________

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~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 24

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:12:21 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
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There is a very healing, nurturing aspect to my relationship with my master. We have both had terrible problems in our lives and it's been impossible to simply throw our hurts and doubts away because we think we should. Instead we have completely embraced one another including the "baggage" and with understanding, patience and a great deal of love we are even closer for having seen each other with the good and the bad. If someone told me they wanted me to come into a relationship with no baggage I'd take that as a personal red flag and run the other way. It would mean to me that they were willing to take some of me, but not all of me, and I couldn't feel safe and owned with that.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 25

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:28:38 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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I would suggest you are taking the whole 'BDSM works this way' frenzy and making a huge general statement that in reality isn't accurate. It is a romanitic notion, believing that all the bad stuff comes out first, you work on it, get past it and enjoy the rest of your life in a BDSM relationship. It is an ideal, but the majority of relationships be they BDSM or gay or whatever are just not like that. Relationships are like a journey and new things, new baggage and new problems (and excitements) crop up continuously.

First, you need to define what you mean by baggage. Sometimes, that can mean you have a limit with anal sex. Sometimes it can mean, you have been raped in a past relationship or encounter. Sometimes it can mean you are addicted to porn - or at least are under that impression that you are and it is a bad thing. Baggage is as diverse as the people involved within the relationship. So I would suggest it would be helpful to define for yourself and for your partner what you mean by baggage.

Peace

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 26

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:51:14 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

First we all have to define ~baggage~ to ourself. Each and everyone here as they responded had something in mind that they considered baggage. What some might consider a back pack full, the next will see it as a steamer truck full. Then again there is also how someone handles their baggage. Is it tagging along behind them as they live their life, or are they pushing it in front of them the whole time?

I think this is another place where individual perception and self esteem play an import part in the bottom line.

I was thinking that, too. *Things* have happened in my life; good and not so good and some rather dreadful things, but I don't see any of it as *baggage*. It's my history. All of it affects me in some way.

Perhaps *baggage* is unresolved stuff, or stuff that you are aware affects you in a significant way, hampering your life etc.

Some people refer to sprogs, and illnesses as baggage but I see them as *situations*.

agirl

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 27

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 3:52:43 AM

Areflectionofyou

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I never hid anything from him...i felt he needed to know the good, bad and ugly...afterall how can you ever fully commit to someone hiding certain aspects of your life.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 28

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 4:05:00 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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I'm a pretty open person and try to be responsible. If I'm going to play with someone, chances are I'll tell them about my experiences with whatever sort of play we're heading into. Some of that experience is good and some bad. I try to stay focused on relavant experience and the negative comes in when I'm talking about my reservations or things I think warrent caution. I see a definite progression in bdsm play with a particular partner: early on its a testing the waters so, even though the play itself is light, and not particularly intense, I might talk about things that could come up if that sort of play were to continue so the Dominant can make an informed decision about how to proceed. I feel this is especially important for anything with a D/s bent where I'm giving up control. Get shit out in the open early on so if some particular bit of baggage does pop open and spill its contents, we've got a framework for discussing it.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 29

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 4:07:18 AM

lateralist1

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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It's got to come out upfront.
Mine is on my profile.
So is what I want.
If you can't be honest with a prospective partner then you are not ready for this kind of relationship.
Of course being honest means that you cut down your chances of finding anyone.
That's life.
However some people need help to understand how what has happened to them in the past has affected them.
That's part of what I do as a Domme.
I'm not very good at it yet but I'm getting better.
However some people just don't want help.
They would rather run away from themselves.
That has to be their choice.
And by the way professional help is often just not good enough.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 30

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 4:23:39 AM

subsfaith

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Joined: 11/21/2006
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I keep my baggage all over the place, under the bed, in the bottom of the wardrobe and another piece in the loft... and I only ever bring it out just before my holidays.

Faith

::giggling and skpping away real quickly::

(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 31

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 4:25:33 AM

mstrjx

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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I guess to be contrary I'll dredge up a couple of thread responses and combine them here.

Baggage I see as insecurities that get brought about by earlier relationships that are unresolved prior to future ones. As I managed to elude and/or deal with most of these after I was, oh, 16 or so, and the last when I entered the Lifestyle (at 30), I haven't picked up any 'refuse' along the way. I stay unsullied so I can better help a partner on their journey.

It's been a couple of months since I started a new relationship. Particularly, from the very first email (hers), I decided that the best thing to do was to raise the issues of deal-breakers, not baggage. I took a few things from her profile, posts, whatever I thought I could point out that was inconsistent with who I have been, and asked her if she could refute these things. Interestingly, she did, and easily. As we started to get to know one another, I insisted we talk about the most controversial things about each of us. Oddly enough, that all went well as well. Finally, it seemed as if meeting was the last barrier. I had wanted it to be one weekend; she thought it quick and we agreed on the next weekend; until the last moment when she realized that waiting would be harder so we met 11 days after her initial contact. Yes, that was about all it took.

A couple months down the road, we look back at some of the issues raised early on, and it's pretty clear that most of them we've beat to death. We know our own, and the other's, opinions on these matters, and we've made the necessary adjustments to be in complete accord. We've realized that things that might have been dealbreakers for others simply weren't with us. And 'everything' we each could think of was dredged up in the first 10 days.

A fairy tale? That's for others to decide. As I claim no baggage of my own, naturally anything else I have to say can be thought of as equally frivolous. Fortunately, I know better.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 32

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 5:10:36 AM

KMsAngel

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Joined: 4/13/2007
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What subs should remember is, dominants often have baggage too and its harder to let go of because it can portray them to be a weaker person.
[/quote]

really? i'd consider them a stronger person because they've worked through it and hopefully incorporated whatever lessons learned into their life. that way they can help others (subs i guess) and can deeply comprehend what they're going thru

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 33

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 5:13:13 AM

ennaozzie

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Joined: 5/9/2007
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I was told something once and i truely believe it.

(If you are really happy with who you are today, you can not regret what has happend/been done/said etc in the past, as all that has happend in the past has made you what you are today, the good the bad and everything else in between.)

It does not mean you have to like what has happend in the past, but if you are happy with who you are as a person, the essence of who you are, would you change anything?

Well i for one do not want to change things. I sure as hell would not go through some of those things again if you gave me a million dollars, but i would not change things.

beanie

_____________________________

Never make someone your priority when you are only their option

If coffee hurts your eye's take the spoon out of the mug

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 34

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:18:41 AM

SirDominic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ennaozzie

I was told something once and i truely believe it.

(If you are really happy with who you are today, you can not regret what has happend/been done/said etc in the past, as all that has happend in the past has made you what you are today, the good the bad and everything else in between.)

It does not mean you have to like what has happend in the past, but if you are happy with who you are as a person, the essence of who you are, would you change anything?

Well i for one do not want to change things. I sure as hell would not go through some of those things again if you gave me a million dollars, but i would not change things.

beanie

Very well spoken, beanie. But then, if you have accepted the "bad" in your past, and used it to make you a better person today, I don't consider that baggage.

As to the original question, the more baggage affects your current personality, the more important it is to be up front with a prospective partner about what it is, and how it affects your life. Not saying it needs to be brought up on the first meeting. But if past baggage is haunting you, it should be brought up before any formal relationship begins.

As Raven so aptly put it "A Master doesn't just WANT to know, they NEED to know. We are making life decisions, life choises for that person, we need to know them as well as possible. Thats know the reality, warts an all, not just some cleaned up 'image' else those decisions are not going to be based on the reality of who they are and all that baggage is just going to bubble up and bite them, and us in the arse at some point."

I would also add that if one is astute and focused on you, a Dominant is going to get a feel for how your baggage affects you whether you want them to or not, even if the Dom doesn't know what the baggage is specifically. I "read" people. I listen to the words behind the words, which give me clues. I will then make a statement to the effect that this is what I am understanding. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes not; either way it puts the sub on notice that it is in her best interests to come clean if she desires a relationship with me.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to ennaozzie)

Post #: 35

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:33:04 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
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From: NYS
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In neither d/s nor vanilla relationships is it appropriate to either hide all your baggage because it will impact the relationship down the road nor throw it all out first thing because that indicates boundary problems - which is a 'baggage' issue in itself.

What is appropriate is to become friends, sharing things as conversation turns to that along the way. Mention that "I have a problem with xxx" and then wait to see what the response is. That mention may be enough for them to decide you aren't compatible in which case you'll feel better not telling them everything, or they may ask about it in which case you can either tell them what they ask or say you aren't comfortable at that time going into detail.

But this isn't an either/or answer. Like sharing everything else, you do it little by little.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 36

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:35:26 AM

mythi

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Good point! i really don't believe anyone honestly wants to know another's baggage...

you are not on the D side of the equasion obviously. A Master doesn't just WANT to know, they NEED to know. We are making life decisions, life choises for that person, we need to know them as well as possible. Thats know the reality, warts an all, not just some cleaned up 'image' else those decisions are not going to be based on the reality of who they are and all that baggage is just going to bubble up and bite them, and us in the arse at some point.

Well, as is obvious from Master Jeff's post, I'm very upfront about my 'baggage'. Of course, as I've said before, I refer to it as 'souvenirs' not baggage because gosh darnit I earned it!. It's part of what makes me tick, same as the good stuff. And as I prefer a lot of psychological domination, anyone wanting to rule my kingdom needs to know the lay of the land.

Personally I'd rather give them the tour up front than have them stumbling around knocking stuff over or getting lost in a bad neighborhood only to be jumped by roving gangs of hoodlums.

Now on the flip side, I also expect a Dom to be upfront about any 'baggage' as well. For one thing I consider transparency (aka trust and acceptance) to be a two way street. For another, I dont want to inadvertantly trip some hidden alarm of theirs and not know why they're suddenly feeling and behaving differently. Hate that!

So I honestly DO want to know the baggage of whomever I'm with. And if they dont honestly want to know mine that would be a red flag of no return for me for the same reasons RavenMuse gave. I wouldnt feel safe at all!

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 37

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:48:28 AM

dawntreader

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Good point! i really don't believe anyone honestly wants to know another's baggage...

you are not on the D side of the equasion obviously. A Master doesn't just WANT to know, they NEED to know. We are making life decisions, life choises for that person, we need to know them as well as possible. Thats know the reality, warts an all, not just some cleaned up 'image' else those decisions are not going to be based on the reality of who they are and all that baggage is just going to bubble up and bite them, and us in the arse at some point.

Greetings RavenMuse.
True, i am not on the D side of the kneel but there are days when i feel i could be...

i understand what you are saying above, it just has not been my experience.

i don't feel i have baggage so much as life experiences that have shaped me...some for the good, others not so good. Baggage appears to me something that you carry with you into each new relationship hoping someone will not only accept it but help you fix it. i did this once or twice until it became clear that it was up to me to fix myself so the end result is not baggage but hopefully a stronger more complete person. So now, when an unresolved issue presents itself to me, i feel it is my responsibility to take care of it - again from where i am at this moment, strength and self-reliance are desired traits; weakness in any form - is not ~

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 5/23/2007 6:50:32 AM >

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 38

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:48:46 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

prolific_needs: I've suddenly come to realize... in vanilla, people try to hide their baggage, and form a relationship based on only the good parts.
prolific_needs: .... in D/s... you start by hauling out all the baggage and negativity first... and working from there to improve...

It's 2:30am when this realization decided to force it's way into my head, is it accurate? Do many D/s relationships start off with dredging up the ugly bits first and working from there? (After the obvious get-to-know-you period, but before/during the drawing of terms and expectations).

In my marriage (he's not like us *S*) he knows everything there is to know about me, good and bad and we are amazing together. If he didn't know me, I'd not be typing here now! I would be a miserable human being wondering how I could get out of an unfulfilling marrage.

Baggage could be considered BDSM to my husband since he's only on the fringes of this part of my life...but he chose to embrace it with me.

In my alternatiave relationships I've held back (my play partners don't know all there is to know) because finding the one has been so elusive....until now.

There is very little Robert does not know about me nor I him. And what we don't know isn't hidden, it simply hasn't come up yet. I feel safe in telling him everything. I don't worry he won't see me as Dominant because I've had some sucky things happen in life. I don't worry that he'll run screaming because I wasn't a perfect kid, a happy teen or a well adjusted 20 something.

In the end what matters is that all three of us know that who we are today is based firmly on our baggage, our skeletons and our past, whether good or bad.

If I had not been in an abusive marriage I would not be where I am today. I know that. If I hadn't dated XYZ 12 years ago I wouldn't have an insight about some random thing that may play a part in how I formulate my views today.

As long as we look at our baggage and skeletons and learn from them...then I believe we are golden and life is good. Those who continually make the same mistakes are destin for failure no matter who their partner in life...vanilla or otherwise.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 39

RE: Baggage, when do you pull your skeletons out? - 5/23/2007 6:53:36 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subsfaith

I keep my baggage all over the place, under the bed, in the bottom of the wardrobe and another piece in the loft... and I only ever bring it out just before my holidays.

Faith

::giggling and skpping away real quickly::

Thankyou for the chuckle with my coffee this morning :-)

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to subsfaith)

Post #: 40

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