RE: Submission and Slavery

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RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 1:54:22 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Wow.... Christians Vs Buddist Vs. Catholics...

Hey, isnt that how wars start?

I am all for defined words. But I am not into labels.
But in what you are saying then, (and I have said it before in other threads) then submissives don't exist. Neither do dominants. Nor does switches. Because the words themselves do not exist in any dictionary(well, except maybe for switch on at least one occasion I have seen, but it was kinda stretching it) So, You claiming to be a dominant on your profile is actually null and void. Your not a dominant. But it really isn't up to me say that to you, just as its not really your place to claim someone isn't a slave, just because they arent owned. Exactly the same.

quote:

By the same logic, then if a person who is not Dom/me wishes to simply all of a sudden claim to be Dom/me then they are automatically Dom.me because the nomenclature is strictly up to that individual who wants to claim whatever that individual is?

Yes. Because they have that ability. You may 'claim' to be a dominant, doesn't mean you are to me. Just as I may not be a submissive in your eyes, yet in anothers - I may be the shinning example. Others yet again, value me as a slave - because the reality is that I fit every single definition of what a slave is - yet I am not one.

A man may feel they are born into the wrong body - is it up to you to decide that they are a man and think they are wrong because they refere to themself as 'she'?
It isn't about perception, its about the heart.

The heart of a slave.
A dominants heart.
A submissives heart.

Its not what you appear to others, its what you are to yourself - and the people that matter around you.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 21

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 3:05:52 AM

onceburned

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
from your very words, an Atheist could call himself a Christian, and thereby be a Christian, and though maybe in this day in age of 'political correctness' nobody would question how a person who has no belief in any god could really be a follower of Christ, even though the terminology of the word Christian, inherently by its own definition is a follower of Christ.

Actually an atheist -can- be a Christian. Unitarians do not all believe that God exists. Many believe Jesus Christ to be a man who was a good moral leader - and follow him simply as that.
The word Christian really doesn't have a firm meaning, but rather a cloud of meanings.

I suppose the same could be said for sub and for slave.

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 22

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 5:44:49 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Its not what you appear to others, its what you are to yourself - and the people that matter around you.

It's just not this cut and dried. People make assumptions about you dependent upon your claims. If someone claims to be a doctor...I assume that they have some practical knowledge of medicine. If someone claims to be a psychologist...I assume that they have some practical knowledge of psychology. If someone claims to be a sister....I assume they have some practical knowledge of what it is like to be a sibling. If someone claims to be a priest....I assume they have some practical knowledge of religion. If someone claims to be a garbage man.....I assume they have some practical knowledge of trash removal. If someone claims to be an attorney...I assume they have some practical knowledge of law.

When someone claims to be a slave or Master and they have never taken on the responsibility of owning or being owned.....I assume they are merely clueless.

People state their claims to others because that is the way they wish to be viewed by the person they are stating their claim to. When someone comes into a munch and declares themself a slave or Master...they are saying that they want to be known in that circle as a slave or Master. They are seeking some sort of validation from the group. Does it not matter to them then that their claims can actually be counterproductive to their goal? Instead of validation....many times they are invalidated as a result and lose credibility. That is the reality of what happens...not just my personal opinion. Countless times it has played itself out in just that fashion.

*edited for typos

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 5/18/2005 5:49:41 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 23

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 6:51:49 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

It's just not this cut and dried. People make assumptions about you dependent upon your claims. If someone claims to be a doctor...I assume that they have some practical knowledge of medicine. If someone claims to be a psychologist...I assume that they have some practical knowledge of psychology. If someone claims to be a sister....I assume they have some practical knowledge of what it is like to be a sibling. If someone claims to be a priest....I assume they have some practical knowledge of religion. If someone claims to be a garbage man.....I assume they have some practical knowledge of trash removal. If someone claims to be an attorney...I assume they have some practical knowledge of law.

Whilst I understand your point I do not think its relevant to the subject because we are not talking about outside wiitwd - but within... and as we all know, the words used within wiitwd do not carry over into outside - but even if I do, for discussions sake, take your example, I still see it differently.

A doctor, a psycologist, a priest - all require some sort of knowledge. They aren't labels - they are functions.

A person can go to a group and say 'I am Master Poohbaa and this is my slave thingy'... makes Him a Master. But doesn't make Him any more valid as a Master - doesn't make Him better or anything - He may have zero knowledge of being a Master - just because He owns, makes Him One?
Not to me. To His girl, sure... but not to me.

Another Man may have been in the Ls for many many years. He can flick a whip without scaring, can bring a girl or boy to their knees with one word - could be the Master of His Whip(because He has learnt His trade) - But people will ridicule Him because He calls himself Master - yet is without property?

Slave, submissive personalities, dominant personalities Mastery of subjects - are what a person inherently is. Sure, they may be a Master of their 'trade'... but what they are is in their very heart. Yes, in some cases, it can be learnt - but the majority find that its something they have in them in the beginning. Those that learn their title - yes it can be argued that its a function - but for the majority of others, its not a skill that is learnt, its just in them.

A person can be a Bachelor of Arts (I knows lits of them) - but no nothing about art and may in fact be married.

To be a Master - is just that - a label.

By the same token - I can deliver a baby (have done twice) doesn't make me a midwife. But I still have those skills - but they are something I have learnt. Yet I can claim to have midwifery skills.

Just because someones a doctor - doesn't mean they know all the symptoms.
Sure, I seek out a doctor because I want specific treatment. But its up to me to find out if they are the doctor I need and if indeed their skills suit me.

I could claim to be a Master of Art - a slave of body and heart - a submissive of mind and soul. But at the end of the day, I am still me.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 24

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 7:06:19 AM

SenorX

Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
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There are some good points being brought up in this discussion. However, it appears that only a few people have been carrying the discussion. It would be nice to know how others reading this post also feel in order to get the most from the thought of others, as well.

It seems that we have kind of gone from the initial question into religion. And it also seems that we are kind of stuck in some belief that terms, whatever they may be, are strictly dependent on what the individual looking at that particular term defines that term to be, however, words have been created by society's acceptance of the definition in order to have some substance and allow others to know what someone else is talking about. Otherwise, if you said the sky is 'blue', I may think of the color 'red', however, it is accepted that the correct term for the color of the sky (without the clouds, etc) is 'blue', and it is generally accepted that the white, big thing that is seen at night as it circles the earth is called a 'moon'.

All of the published dictionaries I have seen pretty much define Christian as "pertaining to or derived from Jesus Christ or his teachings" and "a person who, in his life, exemplifies the teachings of Jesus Christ".

The dictionaries also have agreed upon definitions of the terms, "Dominant", "submissive", and "slave", and in order for society to be able to function, it must agree on some manner of communication, in this case, words (in the USA) in English, which in most cases translate pretty well if not exact into other major languages.

quote:

Because the words themselves do not exist in any dictionary(well, except maybe for switch on at least one occasion I have seen, but it was kinda stretching it)

Perhaps you need a different dictionary, as those words definitely exist in dictionaries. This is not a dig, just a suggestion, since major dictionaries do include definitions for those terms.

I sincerely appreciate all the input with regard to this matter, as I feel I am learning alot for this topic and the comments being made herein.

Wouldn't utter chaos exist if nomenclature was simply based on what each individual took it as?

X

< Message edited by SenorX -- 5/18/2005 7:07:23 AM >

(in reply to onceburned)

Post #: 25

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 8:12:33 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I will just say that, as in the past, if I am released as a slave, I'm not changing my screen name or email address.

I don't see a reason to do so.

Call that what you will- stubborness, delusion, seeking validation, living in my own bubble, that's fine.

But for me it is who I am, and I am not going to suddenly change everything around, including my orientation, make everyone all confused by changing emails and screen names just because my relationship status has changed.

The only other real option is to make some absolute definition of "slave" in a M/s sense of the word. I just don't see how that is feasible or desireable.

On a linguistic point- we discuss things all the time without having a hard final universally accepted definition of the concept. One easy example is "love."

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 26

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 8:58:48 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Another Man may have been in the Ls for many many years. He can flick a whip without scaring, can bring a girl or boy to their knees with one word - could be the Master of His Whip(because He has learnt His trade) - But people will ridicule Him because He calls himself Master - yet is without property?

Yes I will say that indeed he is a Master of his Whip....but he is not a Master of a slave unless he owns one. I won't ridicule him for calling himself such...but I won't believe him either.

quote:

Slave, submissive personalities, dominant personalities Mastery of subjects - are what a person inherently is. Sure, they may be a Master of their 'trade'... but what they are is in their very heart. Yes, in some cases, it can be learnt - but the majority find that its something they have in them in the beginning. Those that learn their title - yes it can be argued that its a function - but for the majority of others, its not a skill that is learnt, its just in them.

While I absolutely agree that submissive or dominant may be inherently who you are, I disagree that you are inherently a Master or a slave. I have many years of experience...I have ALWAYS been submissive....but I have not always been a slave as I have not always been under the ownership of a Master. I am currently unowned. If I went simply by years of experience or skill, most certainly I have earned the right to call myself a slave. But that would be dishonest. Right now I am not a slave....because I have no owner, I am simply submissive.

Merc said it best when he made this quote:

quote:

Slavery requires active interaction under any definition.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 27

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 9:43:28 AM

onceburned

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
it is accepted that the correct term for the color of the sky (without the clouds, etc) is 'blue', and it is generally accepted that the white, big thing that is seen at night as it circles the earth is called a 'moon'.

Yes, the word moon is like the word "Christian" or the word "slave" or "sub". We all recognize the word and as individuals we attach meanings to the word. Usually the meanings of different individuals overlap, but sometimes their are radical departures.

Some people may regard the moon as a big piece of cheese, or the decaying body of a dead god, or as piece of rock, dust and dirt not unlike Earth. Some people may label themselves as Christians because they think Jesus Christ was good man with good moral teachings. Others may call themselves Christian because they believe that he was the Son of God and the second person in the Trinity.

And persons may label themselves to be sub or slave. And their definition may overlap with your own understanding of those words - and you accept their self-label. Or there may be a radical departure in understanding and you will not accept their self-label.

We share the same words, but we don't always share the same meanings for those words.

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 28

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 10:43:29 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

The one aspect of this that everyone always seems to agree upon in the end is what works for them, works for them, and what works for you, works for you. Personally, I don't exactly get that either. If the words mean something different to every single person who declares themself either submissive or slave, Dominant or Master, without having any kind of general concensus on what those terms mean......why then do we bother with terminology at all? What do the terms mean if they have no meaning? What are you really declaring yourself to be if no one even knows what it is?

If anyone can simply declare themself to be whatever they choose....then I am putting you all on notice. I have just declared myself Erin....Goddess and Ruler of the world!!!! Does that make it so? Oh hell no!!!!

i so completely agree with you = ) It used to seriously get to me, but whatever.

And if you're going to declare yourself the Goddess and Ruler of the World
i am going to declare myself

A Pink Elephant with purple spots! Yes = ) And if anyone out there is searching for a pink elephant with purple spots that means only what i want it to mean

Please look me up

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 29

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 10:49:22 AM

Kiaban

Posts: 124
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

quote:

The one aspect of this that everyone always seems to agree upon in the end is what works for them, works for them, and what works for you, works for you. Personally, I don't exactly get that either. If the words mean something different to every single person who declares themself either submissive or slave, Dominant or Master, without having any kind of general concensus on what those terms mean......why then do we bother with terminology at all? What do the terms mean if they have no meaning? What are you really declaring yourself to be if no one even knows what it is?

If anyone can simply declare themself to be whatever they choose....then I am putting you all on notice. I have just declared myself Erin....Goddess and Ruler of the world!!!! Does that make it so? Oh hell no!!!!

i so completely agree with you = ) It used to seriously get to me, but whatever.

And if you're going to declare yourself the Goddess and Ruler of the World
i am going to declare myself

A Pink Elephant with purple spots! Yes = ) And if anyone out there is searching for a pink elephant with purple spots that means only what i want it to mean

Please look me up

ah man , usually when I am looking for a pink elephant its without spots..then again if they are purple it could be from a good beating? in which case thats ok
cheers
Kiaban

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 30

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 10:55:02 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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To clear away the hyperbole here...

You have some people who say "slaves cant say no"

Well, I say no a lot.

You have some people who say "slaves have no choices"

Well, I have a lot of choices.

The realistic issue that started this thread is that someone gets annoyed at "slaves" pronouncing themselves as "slaves" when they "obviously aren't"

The question of course being, how do you know they aren't? Whose basis are we going on here? When does it become an issue of what you think versus their own thoughts?

(in reply to Kiaban)

Post #: 31

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:03:17 AM

Mia1978

Posts: 41
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

I definately think there is a difference between a submissive and a slave.

I think a submissive likes being dominated, controled, feeling a certain element of weakness, has a powerful need to please...so on. But, I think a sub only goes "so far" as they consider themself a person first, a sub second.

I think a slave is just that. A slave. Does anything and everything that they are told with little to no regard for their own humanity.

Don't know if that follows the 'rules' of this community, but it's the impression I have.

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 32

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:03:57 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

There are some good points being brought up in this discussion. However, it appears that only a few people have been carrying the discussion.

That tends to happen. Quite frequently as well = )

quote:

And it also seems that we are kind of stuck in some belief that terms, whatever they may be, are strictly dependent on what the individual looking at that particular term defines that term to be

Yes we have ALWAYS been stuck here. It is politically correct to say that there is no TRUE definition as of the terms and the terms are subject to the individual. Yes, i think that is the what the majority believes. Though i am not one of the majority, because personally i think that just makes things TOO CONFUSING. And how is one supposed to "learn" about BDSM if none of the terms truely mean anthing other then what each indiviual decides it means?

i am not really getting into the arguement because what i believe is not politically correct = ) As well others are making the points i would. Oh and one the MOST politically correc things to do when discussing things that are NOT politically correct IS to make sure that you state it is only your opionon and not for everyone but for you. Otherwise you will upset the politically correct

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 33

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:07:58 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ah man , usually when I am looking for a pink elephant its without spots..then again if they are purple it could be from a good beating? in which case thats ok
cheers
Kiaban

oh geeeeeeez = ( No, the purple spots are part of my true colour. Now to me they could mean i have masochistic tendencies or they could just be decoration or they could be .......

Really i havent decided on my defintion. i've just always wanted a stuffed animal that was a pink elephant with purple spots. = ) So there for i have defined myself as something i want.

quote:

The question of course being, how do you know they aren't? Whose basis are we going on here? When does it become an issue of what you think versus their own thoughts?

please read the above on political correctness. = )

quote:

Don't know if that follows the 'rules' of this community, but it's the impression I have.

No it doesnt because its not polictically correct. AS everyones definition is there own and your definition is only for you = )

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 5/18/2005 11:13:38 AM >

(in reply to Kiaban)

Post #: 34

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:18:12 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Though i am not one of the majority, because personally i think that just makes things TOO CONFUSING. And how is one supposed to "learn" about BDSM if none of the terms truely mean anthing other then what each indiviual decides it means?

Quite easily. We learn all about things without really understanding them or having to say "this is it and only it and here's the book with everything right on it."

We learn ABOUT bdsm- we don't need to know what the absolute final definition of "slave" is in order to grow into who we are, to have healthy relationships, to know to obey, to know what works for us.

Because otherwise, you're saying that no one has learned anything up until now because we don't have those final definitions.

Life isn't like that, language certainly isn't like that, communication isn't like that. The process of defining things itself teaches you SO much.

I know there are people out there who like to be absolutists, who really WANT the world to be clear like that and really HATE that it's not. But it isn't, and it isn't going to become so. You can either accept it and work with it and do what you can, or you can be frustrated and tell everyone that they really don't know anything.

Which, btw, is a fairly absolutist statement to make.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 35

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:24:51 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

All I can say to the positivists on here is that if you want to make the world adopt your definitions of words like "sub" and "Christian," you're welcome to go ahead and try. But don't get too frustrated when you see that it's not working out as planned. Stress is bad for your health.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 36

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:32:01 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

I know there are people out there who like to be absolutists, who really WANT the world to be clear like that and really HATE that it's not. But it isn't, and it isn't going to become so. You can either accept it and work with it and do what you can, or you can be frustrated and tell everyone that they really don't know anything.

yes i have come to learn that here on the boards = ) BDSM can not be defined. It is just WITTWD. Very good reply as always Emerald

quote:

Which, btw, is a fairly absolutist statement to make

tsk tsk. So there for it is only in your eyes and isnt absolute? Almost like the old saying "Its all in the eyes of the beholder"?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 37

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:49:36 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I know there are people out there who like to be absolutists, who really WANT the world to be clear like that and really HATE that it's not. But it isn't, and it isn't going to become so. You can either accept it and work with it and do what you can, or you can be frustrated and tell everyone that they really don't know anything.

I am fairly sure that I fall under this heading, or at least your apparent view of what that means I should say. I am a fairly black and white kind of person. It makes it easier for me if things are clear and concise and that way I don't have to spend alot of valuable time trying to figure out what all of the alternate possible meanings for things could possibly be from someone else's perspective. But beyond that you really assume too much. While I would like for the world to be clearer, I don't necessarily want it to be that way. I really don't hate that it's not, hate is such a strong word. I don't have to accept it or work with it either. I can simply blow it off and not deal with it at all if I choose. It doesn't really frustrate me because for that to happen would be to assume that I actually allow it to take up that much space in my head, which I don't. And I never tell anyone that they don't know anything...for that would be as ludicrous as saying that I know everything. What I do though is make decisions for myself regarding other people based upon how well they talk the talk....measured directly against how well they walk the walk.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 38

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 11:53:49 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

Because the words themselves do not exist in any dictionary(well, except maybe for switch on at least one occasion I have seen, but it was kinda stretching it)

Perhaps you need a different dictionary, as those words definitely exist in dictionaries. This is not a dig, just a suggestion, since major dictionaries do include definitions for those terms.

I do understand you are not meaning to dig - I am sorry if you didn't understand what I meant - my miscommunication.

Lets take websters for an example(seeing as it is used alot by people here)

submissive(adj) - from submit(vrb)

Main Entry: sub·mit
Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting
Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send
transitive senses
1 a : to yield to governance or authority b : to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation <the metal was submitted to analysis>

*********

Dominant - adjective

1. in control: in control or command over others

2. more important: more important, effective, or prominent than others

noun (plural dom·i·nants)

1. 5th note of scale: the fifth note of a musical scale.
Also called fifth

2. chord based on 5th note: a chord or key based on the fifth note of a musical scale

*******

sadism - noun

1. psychology hurting others for sexual pleasure: the gaining of sexual gratification by causing physical or mental pain to other people, or the acts that produce such gratification

********

switch - noun (plural switch·es)

1. electrical engineering button or lever controlling an electrical circuit: a mechanical or electronic device that opens, closes, or changes the connections in an electrical circuit, for example, one used to turn a light or machine on or off

2. sudden change: a quick or sudden change

1. transitive and intransitive verb change, shift, or transfer: to change from one time, activity, or situation to another, often quickly or suddenly, or to cause somebody or something to make such a change
The dancing class has been switched from Friday afternoon to Saturday morning.

2. transitive and intransitive verb make an exchange or substitution: to exchange two similar or related things, or put one in the place of the other, sometimes secretly or surreptitiously

*********

They are verbs, adjectives - they describe a behaviour, but not name a person.
Therefore, there are no Dominants, no submissive, no switches... etc
But there are dominant persons, submissive persons, and people who switch around.
(But thats just what outside wiitwd say - but thats the point made)

As for sadism - not every sadist is a sadist because of the sexual end result - so therefore, sadism and sadist within the community must be the wrong label as well?

And just to add another example because you brought it up -

Moon - noun (plural moons)

astronomy planet’s natural satellite: any natural satellite revolving around a planet. Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune each have more than one moon.

1. intransitive verb wander aimlessly: to wander around in a dreamy or listless state, unable to concentrate on anything

2. intransitive verb yearn for loved one: to be stricken with longing for an absent loved one, and rendered listless and dreamy as a result ( literary or humorous )

3. transitive and intransitive verb bare the buttocks: to bend over and deliberately expose the bare buttocks to somebody, either as a rude joke or as an act of defiance and disrespect ( informal )

Blue - 1 : of the color blue
2 a : BLUISH b : discolored by or as if by bruising <blue with cold> c : bluish gray <blue cat>
3 a : low in spirits : MELANCHOLY b : marked by low spirits : DEPRESSING <a blue funk> <things looked blue>
4 : wearing blue
5 of a woman : LEARNED, INTELLECTUAL
6 : PURITANICAL
7 a : PROFANE, INDECENT <blue movie> b : OFF-COLOR, RISQUé <blue jokes>
8 : of, relating to, or used in blues <a blue song>
- blue·ly adverb
- blue·ness noun
- blue in the face : extremely exasperated

As to the colour blue also - a person may say something is blue - but to one person the blue may seem more green, to another sky blue, another purple, another cobalt. Blue is the colour, but not the depth or texture of colour - thats up to an individual to decide what fits within their environment.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)

Post #: 39

RE: Submission and Slavery - 5/18/2005 12:04:41 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

Another Man may have been in the Ls for many many years. He can flick a whip without scaring, can bring a girl or boy to their knees with one word - could be the Master of His Whip(because He has learnt His trade) - But people will ridicule Him because He calls himself Master - yet is without property?

Yes I will say that indeed he is a Master of his Whip....but he is not a Master of a slave unless he owns one. I won't ridicule him for calling himself such...but I won't believe him either.

I understand your response - but I didn't say He said He was a Master of a slave - my concept is that if He claims to be a Master, just because he doesn't own a slave, doesn't mean he is any less a Master. Even if someone came into your group, said - I am a Master - showed you His slave - proved what he owns, does that mean you automatically accept him, and call him Master, because he can show proof thats acceptable to you? And yet a man with no slave, can claim the same, have more credentials, more experience, yet you won't believe him? But thats only because he doesn't fall under your definition of what a Master should be. But that doesn't - at least shouldn't make him any less a person, or his claim any less valid - because in the end it boils down to personal, consensual choice. Until the BDSM community nail down exact definitions and say -THIS IS THE LAW' then its just not gonna happen. And in wiitwd, that isn't gonna happen anyway - I realy hope it never does, because it would just make it like any other hiaracy run institution.

BDSM isn't JUST about dominants and submissives and slaves and sadists and masocists and sex and pain and obedience. BDSM is about RISK - about SSC for some - its about choice and freedom and captivity and most importantly about individual choices.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 40

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Submission and Slavery

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