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RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:09:55 AM

slaveish

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Joined: 2/19/2007
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Knowing Master like I do, I doubt he would allow my sister and me to be dropped off anywhere if we were at some kind of club. "What? You don't like my company any more?" ~laughing~ I can just hear it.

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If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 41

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:30:06 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

"There will be a submissive safe space for networking, bonding, and support from fellow subs, both male and female. "

Why?

No singles will be allowed so who exactly do the submissives need a "safe" space from?

Who cares!?
You left out the most important part - Where? When? Can we come?

Alright, if you insist, I'll reply on topic.

Mike, in many respects the traditional dynamic of submissive/dominant interplay has been flipped. Looking pragmatically at the results of this policy it clearly points to the fact that the submissives are "in charge" and the dominants have become, in the eyes of many, purely facilitators of the desires and demands of sensations of the submissives.

The "safe space" provides an area where the sub, once done with the Dom, can be left alone. It is a logical progression in the belief that limits and rules for the dom must be in place prior to any interaction. Considering all the support for that position on many "instructional" sites such as CM; why is this natural progression surprising?

The subs can go into their "safe space" chat about the sessions they've had with the Dom's anxiously awaiting for them outside the space, and come out when they feel the need to have the dom service them again. Is that any different than the sub who, as soon as a dom does anything outside his/her desired and "approved" sensations, releases that dom or gives him/her a 'time-out' until they apologize and behave?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 42

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:36:34 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

But even that definition comes off as downgrading the notion that subs or slaves are "mature, functioning, consentual adults".

This has nothing what so ever to do with maturity. When a man tries it on with a vanilla girl in a club because her partner is at the bar or in the loo, what happens?
More often than not a fight or at least a conflict between the two guys.
Remember also that in a vanilla club the girl is fully dressed. In a D/s club the girl could well be naked and we all know what naked does to people. It makes them feel vulnerable.
Consenting yes, but consenting to her partner and not some smarmy aggressive Dom that thinks he can step right on her partners toes.
Most subs want to feel safe and it is our responsibility as a dominant to ensure they are safe.
There are well weathered subs that can look after themselves but there are new subs coming into this that will need looking after just that bit more.

Just another reason why I have NEVER been to a bdsm club or munch, the last thing I need is to be treated or look at like a piece of meat; I get that enough from vanilla guys when I am dressed {shutters}

Plenty of tops already think its their job to 'try' to put me in my place, jokes on them, my place is their equal; the rules haven't changed, so we are equals the ONLY perosn who is my 'superior {said tongue in cheak} is my partner. Since I am still single and free, looks like everyone is still my equal.

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 43

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:44:27 AM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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Most often What I see discribed as a "safe space" is really a free speach area where the people of that orientation can speak without fear that it will get back to their someone and cause a communication problem. Sounding board type area.
Basicly a space where people operate by "Table Rules" What's said here stays here. Allowing for sharing of conversations about topics that might otherwise not be addressed.
We split up for discussions in our local MAsT chapter and apply table rules for each session.

Both ops and bottoms have had this kind of "Discussion class" at many events I have been to.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 44

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:54:47 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Merc,

Thanks for putting it more starkly than I was able to. I believe in having "safe zones" at least rhetorically in a relationship, I could see it if the party was geared toward newbies, I could see if it was some super intense event or something. It is one frigging night of D/s and you need to take a break?

http://www.sfcitadel.org/calendar.php

Merc, if you want to come up, that would be fun. I am trying to get a couple of friends of mine to attend as well and hopefull will have someone to play with.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 45

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 9:56:47 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Most often What I see discribed as a "safe space" is really a free speach area where the people of that orientation can speak without fear that it will get back to their someone and cause a communication problem. Sounding board type area.
We split up for discussions in our local MAsT chapter and apply table rules for each session.
Both ops and bottoms have had this kind of "Discussion class" at many events I have been to.

Archer,

For a discussion event I think that is an excellent idea, however that is not what this event purports to be. It is meant as a celebration of D/s and the power exchance within it. To me it would be like having an event celebrating monogamy but having a small swingers booth with glory holes just in case someone gets horny. It sort of makes a mockery of the whole event to me.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 46

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 11:02:17 AM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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I saw your point actually and agree, it's kinda out of step with the event itself in my mind as well.
Mostly I was addressing the multiple posts trying to figure out what "safe zone" ment.
I can't say my thought applies for sure only that this is what I have seen it to mean when at other events they have "safe zone".

Sorry for the confussion I didn't address the part of your post I agreed with, maybe I should have.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 47

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 11:10:21 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
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I think advertising the event with "safe zone for subs" is just marketing to appeal to the masses. Especially since you (Michael) mentioned how the SF area is run in a big part by the subs themselves. I've seen so many chat rooms called "safe haven", etc. Even from reading many threads and posts in here where subs and slaves like to feel safe and "protected", perhaps just for it's own sake, it does seem to have an appeal for many of them. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, not at all. It just obviously has a broad appeal and I think they're using that fact for advertising to attract more to the event.

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 48

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 11:52:27 AM

Cayse

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Joined: 1/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

For a discussion event I think that is an excellent idea, however that is not what this event purports to be. It is meant as a celebration of D/s and the power exchance within it. To me it would be like having an event celebrating monogamy but having a small swingers booth with glory holes just in case someone gets horny. It sort of makes a mockery of the whole event to me.

I think you need to relax and accept that other people do not do what they do the way you do what you do. I think it's pretty presumptious for you to even assume that all other doms at the event would rather have their subs at their feet just because that's your preference. What's that announcement say again? "what happens before and after the play is respected just as much as what happens during the play" -- that applies to you, too, if you choose to go. I would be afflicted with a perma-smirk by all the high-protocol nonsense, so it's the wrong party for me. If you're afflicted by the need to tell other people how to do D/s maybe it's the wrong party for you, too.

That said, when I first read this announcement months ago I was also sort of tweaked by the "safe space" wording. For me I chalked it up to the SF scene's rather relentless use of therapy-speak. Fussy and neurotic, yes, but certainly not a "mockery of the whole event".

< Message edited by Cayse -- 5/25/2007 11:57:41 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 49

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 1:42:12 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Cayse,

Lets see, you think "high protocol" is nonsense, you got "sort of tweaked" by the wording but I am ass for having the gumption to question things?

This is an event dedicated to a certain type of activity and I question whether a certain thing undermines the very reason for the event. Explain how that is me telling everyone how to do anything.

(in reply to Cayse)

Post #: 50

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 1:48:59 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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I think you're getting too worked up and snarking out for no reason.

Yes, the wording is very bad, yes it seems very out of place for this particular event, yes the idea that any mature responsible adult needs this is sad (even Props owner only made that mistake once and she's a very special case).

No need to go snarking down everyones throat.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 51

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 2:04:22 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Yes mommy.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 52

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 2:20:05 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Michael --
I just checked out your web site and you are an excellent craftsman. In terms of sheer technique, your knowledge of BDSM is far greater than mine, I'm sure. But in terms of the realities of human interaction, you're completely wrong on this one, and Maria (Copulo) has put it as well as anyone.

Q: Why do women think computers are masculine?
A: Because you can fill them full of data, and they are still clueless!

I have run many (vanilla) events, the largest having over 600 attendees. My personal experience, and that of others I know who have run such things, is that "extra rules" are only included because there was a problem in the past. It is difficult to administer a new thing, so the only reason to include it is that the alternative is an even bigger pain in the ass.

I am personally most attracted to strong, successful women who are subs in private to a person they deeply trust. My (personal, anecdotal) experience is that such women are usually non-poly, and not into degradation by people they do not know well.

Yes, sub women can take care of themselves. But just because you can do something, does that mean you should have to do it all the damn time? I would want to take my date/lover to a place she would feel comfortable, safe and deliciously excited all at the same time. Haven't you ever been at a vanilla event where there were some men who did not respect social and physical boundaries of the women involved? I sure have.

I know how to run succesful events, and I would not think about running such a D/S get-together unless there were some kind of "escape hatch," "decompression chamber," whatever, unless no one new/curious was allowed to attend, no alcohol was served, people I personally knew vouched for every attendee's character, etc. If you allow for randomness and occasional bad behavior, you need a mechanism in place so one person's, ah, lack of adherence to protocol, does not ruin everyone else's night.

Consider the "safe place" the price you pay for giving the organizers the freedom to allow attendance of anyone who wants to come.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 53

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 2:37:18 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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But why just a safe space for subs then? Why not for doms as well? And what do they do to ensure that it is, in fact, a "safe space"?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 54

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 3:00:28 PM

whisperedsighs

Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline

Okay you are talking about a club environment, the OP was regarding an invitation event. I would hope, that they are at least vexing the invitations to those who know how to behave themselves and respect others, that is the impression I get from the invitation anyway. I find it odd also that they would feel the need for a "safe" space for subs. Do they also have a safe place for Doms?

Clubs will often have people who push the boundaries, if not cross them completely with others. Often if it is brought to the attention of the DM's or who ever is in charget that evening the person is dealt with.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 55

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 3:19:12 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

"There will be a submissive safe space for networking, bonding, and support from fellow subs, both male and female. "

Is this like a play space that some stores have that parents can drop their little ones at while they go do adult stuff?

Isn't it so cool that we can drop our submissives off and go do dom stuff?

LOL this is what I was saying it sounded like....

I still dont get why subs keep getting likend to children??

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 56

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 3:48:47 PM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

I am one of the co-owners/moderators for a yahoo group for bottom types, its a 'safe haven' and place for them to go without top types, despite the number of tops who try, they aren't let in, if they try they have to talk to ME. Thats online though, its a place to speak freely, cry, laugh, network, make friends, etc. Isn't what is being described along the same lines, just in r/t??

edited because my allergy meds have not kick in yet and i cant spell at the moment

< Message edited by slaverosebeauty -- 5/25/2007 3:50:55 PM >

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 57

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 4:36:13 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

Michael,
Having told me that you have run events in the past, I imagine you know first hand that it's a thankless job whether you are a volunteer or a paid employee. Most of the time it's not, "Hey! Loved it! Great Party!" It's, "they should have done it this way and shouldn't have done that. I would have done it this way..etc".
YOU write beautifully, (even if you can't spell

) and are perhaps one of the most articulate people I know. Not many people are like that. Maybe we chalk it up to a poor choice of words? Nothing more, nothing less.
So big deal, they will have the "area where subs are allowed to wander free but shall remain nameless". Better it's there "just in case" than not there and someone really needs it.

So can we please go back to talking about sex now??

**edited because oops! This is response to SimplyMichael, not Magikslave..Sorry"

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 5/25/2007 4:40:53 PM >

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 58

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 5:34:19 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

This has been rattling around in my head since I noticed it. The largest BDSM playspace in San Francisco is hosting a dedicated D/s event. The promo has some cool lines like

quote:

Come out and celebrate the joys of Domination, submission, and protocol.

Once again, Master John and majordomo keri will open the doors of the Citadel for couples, triads, or other groupings, to enjoy an evening of protocol and play. The last Cuffs and Collars was a great success and we hope that you will come out and join us for another wonderful evening!

This party is to celebrate being collared, or having someone collared to you, and the protocol that you share. Enjoy your rituals in an environment where they will be honored. Share your own unique traditions with other Dominants. You will be able to scene in a space where what happens before and after the play is respected just as much as what happens during the play.

So sounds cool and I hope to attend. However, the following is also included and it just rubs me the wrong way....

quote:

"There will be a submissive safe space for networking, bonding, and support from fellow subs, both male and female. "

Why?

No singles will be allowed so who exactly do the submissives need a "safe" space from? It isn't like we have seen marathon non-stop D/s events and we might have to worry about exhaustion and need to give them rest. If someone needs a safe space in order to endure an evening of D/s with their presumed partner, what exactly is that saying? Since one would presume most could manage to offer up a single night of servitude in public, D/s events are so rare, AND there are many support groups for submissives it just strikes me as odd.

I consider submissives my equal on a conceptual level and fully expect them to be functioning adults able to inform and defend their various boundaries, again, what exactly is the need for this space? Not sure if the idea is just silly, insulting, or just not my cup of tea.

I am curious to hear others thoughts.

I agree with you and those others on here Michael who happen to find this a rather "odd" thing to have at an invitation-only event...one observing protocol...one for people collared to others, no matter the formation of the grouping...and yet, they need a "safe" space for the submissives only.

Perhaps it was just poorly worded. After all, given that these submissives are all collared submissives and adults, they should be able to stand one full evening of protocol interspersed with play. And the dominant people involved here should be able to observe protocol AND the rules of the club...which in my mind anyway...would almost indicate a double-whammy against being predatory towards another's collared submissive.

And perhaps...what Merc said was true, at least to an extent. He addressed the play aspects but I can see where this carries over to other aspects of the D/s relationship as well and the protocol of observing their own D/s dynamic in a more formal mode all evening long might just be too much for some submissives to endure. Not all, most assuredly, but some. Just as for some dominants, even though they have collared ones of their own, cannot stop being predatory for a whole evening...which is why there may be a safe room for submissives in the first place and NOT for the reasons discussed by Merc or me or you.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 59

RE: BS or D/s - a long winded question? - 5/25/2007 6:41:36 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
I am one of the co-owners/moderators for a yahoo group for bottom types, its a 'safe haven' and place for them to go without top types, despite the number of tops who try, they aren't let in, if they try they have to talk to ME. Thats online though, its a place to speak freely, cry, laugh, network, make friends, etc. Isn't what is being described along the same lines, just in r/t??

edited because my allergy meds have not kick in yet and i cant spell at the moment

Nope. This is a specific inclusive party which is advertising a specific separate area for subs only for the specific purpose of providing them a safe area.

You, on the other hand, created a special interest group.

It's similar in that it still attempts to create a place for subs to feel safe in, but the specific purpose and environment is very different.

I have no issue with someone wanting a special interest group focused party/event/class/social/etc. I find it annoying that a mature adult needs others to create a "safe place" for them to feel comfortable- but I understand a lot of people do and let them have at it.

The idea of having a safe space at an INCLUSIVE group event meant for everyone to mingle and be together just seems really weird to me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 60

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