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Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and Can t... - 5/17/2005 11:52:11 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?

X
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 2:40:41 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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Theres another really recent thread on this subject - I will have a search and try and find it - unless anyone else has the link?

Peace and Love

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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 5:42:04 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Some believe that submission is inherently masochistic and domination is inherently sadistic. I personally see too many flaws in this and find it much simpler to keep the two separate.

To me, they are different. There ARE people who are in an authority dynamic relationship who do NOT play, who do NOT do kinky sex, who do NOT use toys, who do NOT go into "subspace" or have scenes, or anything like that. It's service only, with no sexual or play elements involved.

A lot of people also say that "ds" is IN "bdsm" and this may in fact be how the acronym evolved, but again, I find it brings more clarity to keep "ds" the relationship and "bdsm" the kinky stuff separate.

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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 7:25:10 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent comment, emerald!

It is nice to see you in this post, as well.

D/s didn't really come from the DS in BDSM, although people now tend to think it did, since it has been attached to BDSM and conveniently we can all see the same letters in both terms. However, Discipline Sadism is not necessarily what would be reasonably construed to translate synonymously with Dominance/submission. Actually, the term BDSM was an acronym put together by the mental health practitioners of old in order to categorize all sexual deviant behavior into 1 term, thereby generally acceptable as time progressed.

I would tend to feel that D/s is independent of BDSM, but I see it used synonymously herein, and so I begin asking questions.

Again, I appreciate your input.

X

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 7:26:55 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		I am sure if we all search enough any question that any of us would have has been asked at some point in time in the past... or at least some similar question.

X

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 7:35:11 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		I was always taught that BDSM equates to Bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, sadism and masochism. Are You now suggesting that is not true?

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(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 7:48:54 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		not suggesting. BDSM = Bondage • Discipline • Sadism • Masochism.

It is BDSM and not BDDsSM. In fact the psychiatric community doesn't include Dominance and submission as a deviant sexual behavior.

Of course you can, according to other posts in here, decide to allow BDSM to mean to you anything you want it to mean to you. Then again, if you are told enough times that the Civil War was fought to free the slaves, you'll start believing it and you'll forget the real reason for starting the Civil War was because of the question of State's Rights.

X

< Message edited by SenorX -- 5/18/2005 7:52:39 AM >

(in reply to SirKenin)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 8:21:40 AM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
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Status: offline 		No, they aren't.

D/s relationships tend to include BDSM, but they don't have to, and vice versa.


(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 9:02:35 AM   
Leonardo


Posts: 113
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		It may be logically inferred that, since it appears most, if not all aspects of the elements in BDSM would require some dominance and submission in order to "play well", then dominance and submission may play an important role in BDSM play... for example:

If I am into Bondage, and want to tie someone up, I would have to be the aggressive life force in that dynamic, so I would take on the dominant role in that scene, while the person being tied would play the submissive role, but if we later decided to reverse roles, she would take a dominant role and I would play the submissive role.

However, it would appear to me that a dom/sub relationship would be able to, and consistently does in many cases exist independently of any of what is coined as deviant sexual behavior, commonly known as BDSM, so in introspect, it would appear that BDSM generally has some need for d/s while d/s can be totally independent of BDSM.


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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 9:13:32 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonardo
it would appear that BDSM generally has some need for d/s

I would disagree with that, my friends can tie me up a lot, or I can flog a friend and there's no Ds at all. It might be for a demo, it might be just to practice, it might be just to do something nice for them. I would be a "top" only in the strictest sense of me being the one doing something to the other person, but it wouldn't be "dominant role" at all.

Certainly a lot of kinky play involves a top/bottom but far from all. Exhibitionism, voyeurism, cross dressing, and a host of other "kink activities" are simply person specific and require no active participation or dominance or submission of any sort from another person.

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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 9:24:53 AM   
onceburned


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
D/s didn't really come from the DS in BDSM, although people now tend to think it did, since it has been attached to BDSM and conveniently we can all see the same letters in both terms.


I seem to recall being told in the mid 1980's, while living in Chicago, that BDSM = BD, DS and SM. I can't refer to any publications as evidence , as this was told to me in person.

quote:

Actually, the term BDSM was an acronym put together by the mental health practitioners of old in order to categorize all sexual deviant behavior into 1 term


That is rather fascinating. I have been curious about the origins of the term. Do you recall where you learned this?

< Message edited by onceburned -- 5/18/2005 9:25:07 AM >

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 10:08:22 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I, personally, use BDSM as a blanket term. D/s, for most of what I'm talking about, is too limiting. BDSM, to me, pretty much encompases WIITWD.

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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 10:16:14 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I believe you can have one without the other. Primarily because you have tops and bottoms. These people are not doms and subs. They only play the bondage part then go about their lives as if nothing had changed.

No D/s required for that. To me D/s is the mental part of submission. Where a bottom could play with the mental part...it doesn't necessarily have to happen.

For some of us...it is all together and it is easier to speak that way. Probably not the proper way to speak yet never the less it happens.

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 10:30:06 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX

I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?

X


i think one can be without the other. In the other thread that was about this it seemed like the thread came to a conclusion that D/s can stand alone with out BDSM. As D/s seems to be the relationship aspect and B/d and S/m are types of play

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 12:26:13 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

not suggesting. BDSM = Bondage • Discipline • Sadism • Masochism.

It is BDSM and not BDDsSM. In fact the psychiatric community doesn't include Dominance and submission as a deviant sexual behavior.


Sexual Health

'BDSM Acronym which combines several terms for kinky sex: Bondage & Discipline (or B&D), Dominance & Submission (D&S or D/S), and Sadomasochism (S&M, SM, or S/M).'

dssg.org

The BDSM acronym stands for: ......BD -bondage & discipline
....................................................DS -domination & submission
....................................................SM- sadism & masochism

InformedConsent

BDSM
BDSM is a term which describes a number of related patterns of human sexual behaviour. The major sub-groupings are described in the abbreviation "BDSM" itself:
* bondage & discipline (B&D)
* Domination & submission (D&S, DS, D/S)
* sadism & masochism (or sadomasochism) (S&M, SM)

BDSM Dictionary

BDSM: It stands for Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism.

Deviants Dictionary

BDSM
Sometimes BD/SM. Bondage and Discipline, Domination and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. Catch-all term much used in North America to lump together those perves who play with physical pain and those who don't, reflecting a concern that the term SM, with its associations with pain, is not always appropriate. See also BD, SM.

Clean Sheets

Unfortunately, these are gross misconceptions concerning what kink is all about and what Power Exchange, Bondage and Discipline (BD), Domination and submission (D/s), and other forms of sadomasochism (SM) really stand for.

mp educational paper

BDSM:A compounded acronym for B/d (Bondage/discipline), D/s (Domination/submission), and S/m (Sadism/masochism). It covers the three aspects of a lifestyle that usually involves more than one or all of these sets of activities, but may also only include one.

sexuality.org

The term BDSM encompasses a wide range of sexual and sensual activities, including power/role playing, sensory games ranging from teasing to intense "pain," and much more. This style of sexuality has received a lot of attention in recent years, and is undergoing an explosion of creativity and growth.

I could list onwards. Whereas many years ago, the definition did not include domination and submission, it was the realisation by people inside and outside the community that D/s is a tool used within BDSM and outside BDSm, not just experienced by a Sadist /top/bottom/masocist etc. So the definition evolved.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 12:31:39 PM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX

I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?

X



You can have a D/s relationship without the bondage/discipline/sado/masochism, D/s just stands for Dominance/submission...i don't think you need the S&M sex play inorder to have a D/s relationship, as well as you can be into S&M without necessarily having the D/s relationship.

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

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(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 1:53:36 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		If the term came from mental health providers as an acronym to use re deviant sexual behavior, then the meaning that is was created for should be the true meaning. Just like the term 'case quarter', which was a term used to describe the difference between an encased quarter and a silver quarter in the mid 1960's when the encased quarters came about, but there are now people who erroneously and clandestinely use that term to mean a quarter instead of two dimes and a nickel or other means of having 25¢, but then again, 25¢ in some broken combination does not make that which is called a 'quarter'.

X

< Message edited by SenorX -- 5/18/2005 1:54:37 PM >

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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 2:08:42 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Grinz...

I am liking SenorX - my thirst for words is being sated...lol

I did a search on the web for Mental Health Providers definitions of BDSM - and I am coming up with the same thing... Bondage/Discipline/Domination/Submission/Sadist(or sado)/Masochism - I have only searched UK/USA/SouthAfrican yet... but I am keeping going...

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/18/2005 2:53:43 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Yes, this has been discussed in a few other threads from different angles.
I see alot of people who use the term D/s as a quick abbrevieation for the entire lifestyle. So they might say something like "I am new to the BDSM scene, and I want to find a D/s relationship". There is no distinction being made and the person writing something like this usually is not understanding that there is a difference. Or that it is much more than just the play.
D/s is the dynamic of the relationship,. and BDSM is the play activites that We normally incorporate as part of that D/s relationship. I see too many people just use the term D/s to mean all of it.
That doesn't work for Me.
I, too, have always understood and was taught the acronym to mean Bondage/Discipline - Domination/submission - Sado (Sadism)/Masochism.

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(in reply to SenorX)
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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 8:36:32 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Grinz...

I am liking SenorX - my thirst for words is being sated...lol

I did a search on the web for Mental Health Providers definitions of BDSM - and I am coming up with the same thing... Bondage/Discipline/Domination/Submission/Sadist(or sado)/Masochism - I have only searched UK/USA/SouthAfrican yet... but I am keeping going...

Peace and Love



satiated

add the word herein, supra, to quench that thirst.

Perhaps you may wish to do some research and find out exactly the 5 W, & H are in re the creation of the term BDSM, now that I have been such a great inspiration for you to start doing research.

:)

X

< Message edited by SenorX -- 5/19/2005 8:37:49 AM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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