RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:02:18 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54
Do you really mean that? The Arabs view any withdrawl, concession, peace deal, cease fire, as a sign of weakness and defeat for their enemies. And for them it is only a hudna, a time to rearm, recruit, and reorganize until they break it, becasue the Quran prohibits them from making a permanent peace deal with infidels.

So it's a crusade, is it? The West versus the East? The Christians versus the Muslims?

If there can be no permanent peace, then why are we messing around with this limited war? Why not nuke em all, and round up the rest. We can probably build some gas chambers and ovens. Then we'll have peace for a thousand years. A thousand years. A thousand year Reich.

Sound familiar?

It's like Muslim is the New Jew!

I knew what the story was when they started weaseling around justifying how some people are literally "Outside the US Jurisdiction" WHILE in US Custody being tortured.

When you prosecuting people for releasing the NAMES of those held without due process, then you're pretty much on the same road the Nazis were, so far, the only difference being the body count, and how they disposed of.

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:05:18 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

Because Bin Laden like all of his kind, hate the West,

WHY??? "The West", ( via Bush ) gave him everything he ever wanted!

quote:

they envision a Muslim world empire,

Who are you kidding with this shit??? They can't even get their shit together Sunni v. Shia v. Kurd v. Persian. How the hell are they going to put together a "New World Order" when they can't fucking secure Baghdad?

I want some of what you're smoking!

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:06:05 PM

Gauge

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quote:

One thing I have learned quite well over the past few years is how much influence the media has over the population. When this war first started, 76% of Americans supported the invasion. Now that has done a 180...

Has it ever occurred to you that when we marched into Iraq we were being told that they had WMD's?

Did you ever think that possibly the Americans did the about face when it was revealed that Iraq did not, in fact have them?

Just my $0.02

< Message edited by Gauge -- 5/26/2007 5:09:02 PM >

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:08:31 PM

NavyDDG54

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I have lost friends, and relatives in this war, and I have a very close buddy who lost his leg in Iraq. Yet he had not regrets. becuase he understands what this war means, and how important it truly is.

And as for the economy, the stock market is at an all time high, house sales are up 14%, unemployment is down....you call that suffering? And conisdering that our stock market crashed after 9-11, I believe our economy is doing a hell of a job recovering

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:09:49 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

Because Bin Laden like all of his kind, hate the West, they envision a Muslim world empire, as much as the left claims that's what Bush wants, it's not.

What exactly does Bush want?

I cant wait to hear your lucid prognostications.

quote:

Threatening to carry out attacks in France because of who they elected

So we are at war to save France again?

Didnt the US G.I.'s already bring home the t-shirt?

You do realize that this all started under Bush Sr., and nothing AnencephalyBoy has done is helping fix the problem.

Sinergy

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:21:35 PM

selfbnd411

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

Because Bin Laden like all of his kind, hate the West, they envision a Muslim world empire, as much as the left claims that's what Bush wants, it's not.

That's a more nuanced position. So we can have peace with Muslims, but not with terrorists, who make up a tiny minority of the Muslim population of the world. I would definitely agree with that.

Now, what are we doing in Iraq? We are fighting al Qaeda, but we're also smack dab in the middle of a civil and religious war. Have you ever tried to stop two pit bulls from fighting? Chances are, they'll both turn on you. And that's exactly what's going on in Iraq.

I don't for one second believe that we are helping our war against al Qaeda one bit by getting every side in the conflict to hate us.

Neither do I believe that if we don't fight them there, they'll come here. We're easy targets in the middle of Indian Country in Iraq, but it's not so easy for them to attack us here. Don't you think that these guys would rather kill American civilians rather than soliders?

This is a classic case of concomitant variation: If I jump up and down, and at the same exact time a car honks its horn, does that mean that my jumping up and down caused the horn to honk? No. It was a coincidence.

Similarly, just because our people are dying in a bloody war in Iraq does not mean that those deaths stopped terrorist attacks from occuring here.

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 5:39:58 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

Have you ever tried to stop two pit bulls from fighting?

Grab their back legs from behind and pull. I have no idea how to work that metaphor into the situation in Iraq, as there is nowhere the Shiia or Sunni care to be, than at each other's throats.

You need a LARGE ENOUGH FORCE that's willing to do things that ain't exactly nice, like PUT DOWN THE CRAZY DOG.

I guess that analogy means we'd have to pick either the Sunni or Shiia, and back them in the extermination of the other....

Man, Bush was a fucking idiot to get us sucked into this...

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 7:36:32 PM

SimplyMichael

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Some people are so fucking dumb they should not only be prevented from breathing, they should be locked up in case by some freak accident their genes spread.

The united arab world with the Soviet union helping couldn't defeat Israel but someone a tiny splinter movement is a threat to the entire Western world? That would be like saying Italy was the real threat in WWII.

I love the concept of leaving Iraq is "losing". I thought we went there to liberate it? We could only "lose" if we went there to take it, and the currently myth is I believe some bullshit about bringing democracy? It boggles anyone with a brain how people can be dumb enough to buy into the bringing democracy myth AND want to mumble about how barbaric Arabs are ALL while thinking Bush is great as the guy who told us not only Iraq had no history of ethnic problems but that putting Iran and the Shia in charge of Iraq was a GOOD idea!

By being stupid enough to invade Iraq and then criminal enough to allow Republican's to run it, Bush has made our terror problem far worse than every mistake over the last 50 years. I mean, the one place where we would have been welcomed and our job would have been easy was Afghanistan, which is slowly being lost back to the Taliban. Our allies are all the countries that backed 9/11. And we invade the one country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

As for leaving Iraq, Bush has slowly, almost one would say methodically destroyed every chance of putting that place back together. In fact, the only thing I didn't predict (as well as a few million other people who don't happen to have their heads shoved up their ass) was how badly and how repeatedly Bush would fuck up, I mean nobody predicted that. But everything else, yep, to a T. Looks like the prewar intelligence told Bush the same thing but lucky for him, most Republicans are dumb enough to bend over and lick this shit up.

We want to win in the ME? Don't kiss ass but don't fucking kick them in the ass every chance we get. I realize most Republicans prefer surrender and wouldn't fight (which is why they think their tactics would work because they WOULD give up and sit quietly) but we need to stop our bullshit. We say we invaded Iraq to BRING them freedom and yet when the Palestinians use their freedoms we punish them. If we had told Hammas, okay, you are grown ups now, start dealing with things, they would have either had to pull their shit together and prove they could make life better (which would have been good) or they would have fallen on their asses, shown themselves to be petty criminals and lost all face.

INSTEAD of setting us up for a win win situation with Hammas, we flip it so they can't lose. They are strong for standing up to Western polical pressue AND when they fail it isn't their fault they can blame it on the West. Fucking stupid on our part.

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 10:57:02 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Have you ever tried to stop two pit bulls from fighting?

Grab their back legs from behind and pull. I have no idea how to work that metaphor into the situation in Iraq, as there is nowhere the Shiia or Sunni care to be, than at each other's throats.

You need a LARGE ENOUGH FORCE that's willing to do things that ain't exactly nice, like PUT DOWN THE CRAZY DOG.

I guess that analogy means we'd have to pick either the Sunni or Shiia, and back them in the extermination of the other....

Man, Bush was a fucking idiot to get us sucked into this...

Spray them with a garden hose.

Sinergy

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RE: 76% of Americans are Defeatist Traitors - 5/26/2007 11:27:17 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

You don't think the "should we surrender" question is loaded? Who says that staying in Iraq means victory? Who says that leaving means defeat?

True, since we went in there "supposedly" to accomplish "regime change" because Saddam was "evil" and planning on attacking us with nukes that would set off a "mushroom cloud", we could conceivably leave because the "mission was accomplished", but then we couldn't get the oil

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