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RE: Same-sex marriage - 5/31/2005 11:45:31 PM

MzBerlin

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Well stated, perverseangelic.
B

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 3:33:55 AM

darkinshadows

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quote:

Why is the christian bible given such precident? Simply because of the number of christians around? (Not a bad thing, mind) What gives the christian bible any more validity that any other holy book that's out there? Debate tends to center around biblical law. Why?

It does because of the country you live in - if you lived in Iraq, then the koran takes importance. Not that I personally believe that a law should be centred around any religious text because not all the people in a certain country believe in the same religions. Its the majority rule thing. Maybe if the borders were opened so that people who followed a certain religion could freely move to that country might make religous laws more tollerable - but peoples insecurities are never going to allow that.

The one thing(trying to come back to the OP) in the bible(and I am using that because a) its what I follow and b) because thats what has mainly been discussed and it applies to the laws which is what the OP is about - laws on marriage) is clear on, is treating everyone in the same way you would be treated. That says equality and that says that people should be treated to the same respects and laws as everyone else - hetro, lesbian and gay. So some people interpret 'malakos' as homosexual - fine, I still disagree (the proofs there) - but even taking it into consideration - thats between the homosexual and their God - no one else should be involved. No person, no government. The laws should be human and just and equal. Because God clearly taught that people should be treated with the same respect as one accpets for themself, no matter what colour, creed, sex or religion - love outstrips everything.

Peace and Love

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 5:01:48 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

The one thing(trying to come back to the OP) in the bible(and I am using that because a) its what I follow and b) because thats what has mainly been discussed and it applies to the laws which is what the OP is about - laws on marriage) is clear on, is treating everyone in the same way you would be treated. That says equality and that says that people should be treated to the same respects and laws as everyone else - hetro, lesbian and gay. So some people interpret 'malakos' as homosexual - fine, I still disagree (the proofs there) - but even taking it into consideration - thats between the homosexual and their God - no one else should be involved. No person, no government. The laws should be human and just and equal. Because God clearly taught that people should be treated with the same respect as one accpets for themself, no matter what colour, creed, sex or religion - love outstrips everything.
Peace and Love

My mom is catholic and raised me in the catholic faith though today I have chosen to be atheist. But if I have any fond memories of catholicism, it is the way my mom interpreted it, much the way you, and other tolerant christians on this board, do. Thank you.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 6/1/2005 5:02:08 AM >

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 8:01:02 AM

cellogrrlMK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

You see, You do not give a damn why I am attracted to bi-sexual women. I am no fool. You are merely looking for more meat to chew into. Something else for You to pretend how better You are than everyone else. You will rip My analysis to shreds and hang it out on the line like My laundry for all to see. As I have said already, You are not worth it. I am not going to give You the ammo You seek.

It is kind of funny though. It is very much akin to dangling a treat in front of a dog. You can not help but sit back and wonder how long the dog will drool and do funny tricks until eventually he gets tired of it and walks away.

Actually, I always wonder why many of the guys on this site state in their profiles that they are looking for a bi-sexual woman. For threesomes? To jack off to watching two women together?

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything (can one IMAGINE???? LOL), but since the topic was brought up I figured I'd ask.

And really Kenin, there's no need to get as condescending as you did in this post that I'm quoting and especially the one before it. I made my statement way early in this thread about how I feel about same-sex marriage. Anyone is welcome to agree or disagree with me, but this thread has turned into a discussion about religion and homosexuality, which since religion has become involved and people are passionate about their religion (or lack thereof) it's gotten nasty.

<sigh>

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 8:11:14 AM

cellogrrlMK

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Oops, I hadn't read past the post I replied to... this conversation (the bi thing) is over already. I didn't mean to stir up any embers again.

Sorry!

cello

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 8:43:18 AM

suberic101

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For thus who argue that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed, I think natural arguments must be what are used to defend ones position. Someone who does not believe in God is not going to accept the authority of the Bible, or the Koran...

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 11:15:22 AM

cellogrrlMK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: suberic101

For thus who argue that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed, I think natural arguments must be what are used to defend ones position. Someone who does not believe in God is not going to accept the authority of the Bible, or the Koran...

Perhaps eric... I believe in G-d but I am not practicing my religion. G-d and I have our own relationship, and while the Testaments might be interesting reading I do not base how I live on what they say.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 1:00:27 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK

Perhaps eric... I believe in G-d but I am not practicing my religion. G-d and I have our own relationship, and while the Testaments might be interesting reading I do not base how I live on what they say.

What she said.

Anyway...natural arguments? Homosexuality occurs in nature. Therefore, it is natural. All done.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 3:14:35 PM

Lordandmaster

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Yeah, that was quick. You don't even have to talk about zebras and stuff. Homosexuality occurs in nature because there are homosexual human beings.

So much for THAT argument. OK, back to religion. Religion always seems to be the last refuge.

You know, another thing that people aren't talking about: corporations and insurance companies and so on are naturally opposed to gay marriage (because it's going to cost them a few dollars), but they can't just say they're opposed to gay marriage for no reason. That's why, as usual, religion is pressed into service to stand in for financial interests.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Homosexuality occurs in nature. Therefore, it is natural. All done.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/1/2005 11:46:28 PM

MadameDahlia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, that was quick. You don't even have to talk about zebras and stuff. Homosexuality occurs in nature because there are homosexual human beings.

So much for THAT argument. OK, back to religion. Religion always seems to be the last refuge.

You know, another thing that people aren't talking about: corporations and insurance companies and so on are naturally opposed to gay marriage (because it's going to cost them a few dollars), but they can't just say they're opposed to gay marriage for no reason. That's why, as usual, religion is pressed into service to stand in for financial interests.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Homosexuality occurs in nature. Therefore, it is natural. All done.

There’s an ape called the Bonobo. They are actually the closest genetic relatives to humans. They’re all about free love and having sex instead of beating each other up over food or space. They have a relatively low birth rate so they aren’t having sex only to procreate. They often greet each other in a very sexual manner and on top of heterosexual relationships they also have – you guessed it – homosexual (and group!) sex.

Feel free to read more:

http://www.bonobo.org/whatisabonobo.html
http://www.2think.org/bonobo.shtml

Cross-posted from another topic.

< Message edited by MadameDahlia -- 6/1/2005 11:47:50 PM >

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/2/2005 11:13:41 AM

knees2you

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Look how long it has taken for the black {Slaves} to be finally
Excepted in the comunities here in the States.
There still is alot of Predjedism here even though times have changed.

I don't think people will ever really except same sex Marriages.

Religously though, It is a Different matter~

Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/2/2005 1:31:34 PM

onceburned

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My gosh.... 12 pages of this??

I think government has no business being in the marriage business. It should issue civil unions to everyone, and then if a couple wants to get married they can look for a church, temple, mosque etc to perform the marriage ceremony/covenant/sacrament. That would allow the faith of every person free expression without stepping on the faith of others.

As for Kenin's interpretation of Scripture.... I disagree with it.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10

quote:

Instead, you inflict injustice and cheat, and this to brothers.
9
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
10
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God

It is pretty clear that Paul's concern is unjust behavior. He lists off several examples of what he considers 'unjust' - which reflect the culture of the time. Do we really believe today that people who have sex outside of marriage (fornication) will not receive their heavenly reward?

I think that Paul's main message to avoid unjust behavior - and that is what is relevant today.

Timothy 1:5-11

quote:

5
The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6
Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk,
7
wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.
8
We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9
with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10
the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
11
according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

More of the same - and some fairly strong examples too. But again he is merely giving examples of the central principle, which is the Gospel. But homosexuality is never mentioned in the Gospels so Paul's interpretation of what is 'sound teaching' is simply that.... an interpretation.

Now, I know Kenin will disagree with me. That is fine. I am sure that this board is big enough to support people who disagree on some matters.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/5/2005 1:52:57 PM

TomSir

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Grins.. well for all those silly folk who live their lives by the old testament... here's a bit of news for you.

"(for a man to lie with another man) is an abomination." yeah yeah it DOES say that in Leviticus ... chapt 15 i believe but you can look it up for yourselves... okay sure .. it says that.. and you wanna live your life as god said right?

So how many turtles or doves have you sacrificed lately? cmon I know some of you are sleeping with a woman after she's had her period. And you women get that visit monthly... that's a monthly sacrifice you're missing out on. (what the hell's he talking about????)

well folks that bit of nonsense is also in Leviticus. Along with a host of other sacrifices all you bible folk are supposed to be doing and arent. How do I know? well the PETA people havnt taken a bite out of your butt so i know its not going on like it says.

oooh... but we dont Do that anymore Tom .... its an old ritual for olden times....

what's that ? you pick and choose what you want to practice? well now.... that seems to make sense as a good portion of the religious folk do that with the Consitution as well. You know .. that bit about equal protection under the law? So if you decided to pick and choose your sides about gay marriage ... well Im gonna pick MY OWN as well. And since you've been impressing and oppressing your views on me .. im gonna shove mine down your throat now.... Grinz.

Rule 1. those who were for the Iraqi war must now go and fight it. The rest of us can worry about things that REALLY matter to this country. (like who won American Idol

) The Bush twins who are currently unemployed are the first to go. (maybe valor skips a generation in that family)

Rule 2 All those anti gay marriage folks who have been divorced are subject to public FLOGGING. You heard it right public flogging... Why ? well its a fitting punishment for being such a freaking hypocrite. Remember, in the US.. since there techically isnt gay marriage... no gays have married.. (makes sense doesnt it?) well.. then they (all those devilspawn gays and bloodthursty lesbians) havnt messed with marriage at all... by getting divorced YOU HAVE RUINED MARRIAGE hence the floggings. single line starts on the left. Make sure to spread those cheeks.... heh

Rule 3 we're gonna follow the Bible on this one.... you CAN have slaves. Ahh.. but here's the rub... if your relatives were slaves then this time you get to be the Owner ... if your relatives owned slaves well.. now its your turn for the collar and lash... That's fair isnt it?
The rest of us can go about our business as we did before...

Rule 4 From now on ... the President has to pass an IQ test. if he does not test above the mean of say gas station attendants.. then he's out. We'll find a new person... (there's gotta be ONE capable person in 296 million.)

Rule 5 Cigarettes are illegal immoral and are now banned by the state... Pot however is a requirement... (much like soma) you shall all have your daily portion smoked eaten.. or if we have to .. forced internally.

Rule 6 Money is wasted on the geezers... so here goes... you are on social security till you turn age 30 after which you work till you die. The money all the geezers had.. (those over 35 of which I myself am included) must give up all their wealth to the young.. who really are physically more capable of enjoying it anyway.

Last rule... the national religion of the US is now Voodoo. You will all be quizzed on the role of Baron Samedi next friday night after the chicken sacrifice.
(what you dont like Voodoo? I didnt like the complete intolerance of catholicism, the wrote repetition of Judiasm, the absolutely fantastical nature of the Koran so now its Voodoo's turn to be the Top Dog and all you bible and koran thumpers can have thelate night public telivision scraps for your religion. From now on its Goat sacrifices on sunday morning instead of Pat Robertson. (and goat taco's n burritos after) Oh.. and bingo will now be changed to Z O M B I E .

Okay... so im a bit sarcastic.... tongue in cheek is my style... (and by now I look like a chipmunk who just raided a Planter's warehouse)

If I have offended you.. please accept a sincere kiss my ass. All this babble about gays should be granted the right to get married is just that babble.... Read the constitution... they already do. I dont believe in granting special priveleges to any subgroup regardless of its makeup. You all get treated the same... and if you dont like it... well I hear Saudi Arabia has a good old fashioned system where anyone but the old men are screwed I'm sure you'll like it there. Oh wait.. you're going to Iraq... well be sure and pick out 40 acres you can Homesead on and enjoy.

Oh and Marriage in the US at least IS a contract... a legal one.. that's why the govt CAN get involved because it is the Law that defines a contract. Oh I read the brief's that the Mass judge reviewed and his notes... He basically said that a civil union contract <> (does not equal) a marriage contract so its not equal protection under the law. NOT hey all you fags and lezzies need to get married in good ole book banning Massachusetts. To hear it from the conservatives... you'd think the judges were Already smoking pot.. hmmm

< Message edited by TomSir -- 6/5/2005 2:38:03 PM >

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 3:30:11 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

what's that ? you pick and choose what you want to practice?

I'm not sure why you responded to me. The only reason why I pick and chose what I want to practice is because I'm an atheist and therefore I can believe whatever the hell I want. But then, I don't believe in hell ;)

To be honest, I'm not sure even the point of your post.

- LA

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 6:50:10 PM

ILovePain13

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In my opinion ever religion has the right to make their own judgments about homose3xuality or anything else because thats what religion is all about (don't argue with the agnostic/sumthin else over here). When it comes to the government they should see the benefits of gay weddings-they would have to be the most elaborate, amazing things and would jump-start the economy like mad. And the all-time republican fave-gay aids epidemic- wouldn't married gays be somewhat less likely to have multiple partners. I know many people on this website would disagree but lets let the people believe what they want. lol. I say-let people do what they ned to make them happy and fuck the government that kills love and success.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 8:14:17 PM

glassdoll

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no.justno. all we need are the rare preverse ones like micheal jackson adopting kids.

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 8:42:12 PM

cellogrrlMK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: glassdoll

no.justno. all we need are the rare preverse ones like micheal jackson adopting kids.

Hmmm..... not to hijack the thread as far as same-sex marriage goes, but I would like to know what good parent in their right mind would let their child go off with ANY adult they don't really know, much less spend nights with said adult????? Unless they were thinking dollars of course!

Whether Michael Jackson is a rare perverse one or not I truly believe that he has been the target of of money-hungry blackmailers. Yes, he's one fucked-up individual, but he is also a musical genius. I feel bad that he allowed himself (due to his own fucked-up-edness) to be put into the sorry position he now finds himself in.

And to all those wonderful parents I say shame on you!

cello

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 9:35:22 PM

knees2you

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LadyAngelica

Is Right,
We cannot Judge Her for Her Beliefes, Only God can~

As far as the devil is concerned He doesn't have to knock on LadyAngelica's Door?
He's always been there

.~

Ask Groups like Slayer if the devil doesn't exist! Let them take You to there world

Even,
Pro. Richard Dawkins
The Formost person for Atheism says:

"We have seen that living things are too Improbable and
too Beautifully designed to have come in existance by chance."

quote:

I'm not sure why you responded to me. The only reason why I pick and chose what I want to practice is because I'm an atheist and therefore I can believe whatever the hell I want. But then, I don't believe in hell ;)

To be honest, I'm not sure even the point of your post.

Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 9:43:19 PM

Lordandmaster

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That's right. Evolution does not occur by chance. Evolution occurs by natural selection.

Still no god though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Even,
Pro. Richard Dawkins
The Formost person for Atheism says:

"We have seen that living things are too Improbable and
too Beautifully designed to have come in existance by chance."

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RE: Same-sex marriage - 6/6/2005 10:53:19 PM

Ssilver

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quote:

Even,
Pro. Richard Dawkins
The Formost person for Atheism says:

"We have seen that living things are too Improbable and
too Beautifully designed to have come in existance by chance."

You want to put the rest of that quote in, by any chance? Since by taking it so out of context, I'm going to assume you really are horribly disingenuous, so let me do the work for you. I'll even properly cite it.

"We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully 'designed' to have come into existence by chance. How, then, did they come into existence? The answer, Darwin's answer, is by gradual, step-by-step transformations from simple beginnings, from primordial entities sufficiently simple to have come into existence by chance."

Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, page 43.

You do know God supposedly really hates liars, don't you? By the way, ask Jesus to teach you a little grammar and spelling if he has the time...

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