RE: Same-sex marriage (Full Version)

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darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 7:09:24 AM)

quote:

Now for the record, I think you were a little hard on angel. While I may not be a religious person myself, I do respect people's choice/need to have faith. In my perspective, angel has a relationship with her God that is a personal relationship and that is how she knows him. From what I know of Christian faith (and I never claimed to be an expert - I was usually doodling in religion class), what she was expressing was pretty much in line with the teachings.

- LA


Thank You M'Lady A for such kind words, full of wisdom as always. I am sure that Tom probably hasn't read the entire post(just my judgement[;)]) and I am sure that He probably didn't understand the irony of my post he decided to respond to seeing how new he is(although, one never knows!)

Peace and Love



TomSir -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 2:46:36 PM)

Angel.. you get the ASSuME poster child award for being about as far from accurate as possible.. not only did I read the entire posts.. I also looked up most of the profiles of the contributors. It also appears that you failed to respond to any of the salient parts of my argument. You did manage however to pick on the few nonpertinent seguays, much to my humor.

LA - My harshness wasnt necessarily directed to Angel however she makes a very good example of why I meant to be harsh. Often Christians purvey their world view as the only true system. My first post was a sarcastic/humorous rebuke of that belief system. You'll noitice I did not include judaism in my rebuke. I recall a post or two in this tread on prosletyzing. Christians are most often guilty of this in contrast to Jews who in my experience almost NEVER do such things. Think in your own life how many jews you had come knocking on your door to spread 'the Word" I'd wager my left testicle its never happened.

I wasnt accusing Angel of recruiting but I did notice her ferverish clinging to a mantra without what appeared to be a capacity for critical examination in her posts. In fact in the one prior to the above she has chosen to reply to the least pertinent comments I made. But her reply did reinforce my argument about the religious picking and choosing what they believe..(or respond to) {fyi i wasnt necessarily replying specifically to you on my first post .. pardon the confusion}

Ultimately my point is that dogma is most often the root of intolerance. If the bible had no reference to homosexuality at all do you think that this thread (and the gay marriage debate) would even exist? I truly doubt that we'd even give it a second thought.



onceburned -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 3:29:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomSir
If the bible had no reference to homosexuality at all do you think that this thread (and the gay marriage debate) would even exist? I truly doubt that we'd even give it a second thought.


I disagree. People use the Bible as justification for their bigotries. They don't learn their bigotries by reading the Bible.



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 4:04:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TomSir


Christians are most often guilty of this in contrast to Jews who in my experience almost NEVER do such things. Think in your own life how many jews you had come knocking on your door to spread 'the Word" I'd wager my left testicle its never happened.



Nope, we don't. <VBG>

Unless of course you want to include Messianic Jews, aka Jews for Jesus <shuuder>

cello



darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 6:00:35 PM)

It is intriguing you desire someone to try to respond to your posts. But the reality is, its all been said before during the post and discussed and what you have said is nothing new - although your sarcasm is appriciated. But people will always pick and choose, whatever their religion, sex, or favourite - everyone takes what they want and moves on. Seriously, I didn't see your posts as attacking at all - I found them quite funny and the reality is, also truthful in certain respects. I am sure some people did not get your wit just as you have failed to understand mine - but thats where misunderstandings come in and hey - thats life (awaits themetune) In the end, you have your ideas, I have mine and everyone sees things differently. Thats the beauty of being individuals.


The only negative point that I would notice (hey - I can pick can't I?[;)]) about your post is your constant attack on christianity - when yet you proclaim that all should at least be accepting of others, even when you yourself have a problem with another persons religious doctrine. But thats another thread and I am sure that the OP really isn't into having their thread hijacked quite so much.

Still, I am still going to stick to the original post - that in my opinion, same sex marriage should be allowed and that the state laws shouldn't use religious misuse of doctrine to cause seperation of its peoples. In the end, it isn't 'religious dogma' that tries to control or influence - its fundementalism and the supporters of such crass hypocrasy.

Peace and Love



darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/8/2005 6:05:10 PM)

quote:

Christians are most often guilty of this in contrast to Jews who in my experience almost NEVER do such things. Think in your own life how many jews you had come knocking on your door to spread 'the Word" I'd wager my left testicle its never happened.


Well - technically Christians are Jews - but again - another debate - and one that both christians and jews might ultimately fight over... and ultimately do.

So do you prefere butchers knife or just a tight thread so it eventually just drops off?

Peace and Love

*late typo bother - both



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 4:23:49 AM)

quote:

LA - My harshness wasnt necessarily directed to Angel however she makes a very good example of why I meant to be harsh. Often Christians purvey their world view as the only true system.


Perhaps. But you can't assume—I won't repeat your pun, but you get my point ;)—that because someone is Christian that they have One True Wayism. People like angel have shown me that. She lives her life and her faith and lets others live theirs.

The same could be said of many atheists and agnostics that mock people for having beliefs. They treat people who have faith as those who are un-evolved or in need of a crutch. For a while in my mid-teens after I renounced Catholicism, I was one of those people. It was reactionary and angry. It took a while for me to get to this place where I can listen to people talk about religion without getting worked up about it. But now I can, like angel, I live and let live.

I understand your point, but it's not just Christians who do that. And unfortunately, your point was a direct response to angel whether it was your intention to target her or not. I just wanted to point that out.

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 4:25:18 AM)

quote:

So do you prefere butchers knife or just a tight thread so it eventually just drops off?


Your inner sadist is peeking out darling ;)

- LA



darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 6:21:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Your inner sadist is peeking out darling ;)

- LA


[:)]


Peace and Love and complete admiration



knees2you -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 12:07:36 PM)

I Wonder if this Religion Believes in Same sex Marriages???

http://www.pieism.tk/

Someone once posted this I Believe~~

Sincerely, Ant



Lepidoptera -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 1:59:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

I just said What The Professer Stated.
It's funny They now know that Jesus did die and was buried, but yet people feel the need to believe otherwise.[8|]

Oh and by the way My Aunt was an Athiest for more then 20 Years,
then She got Her Spiritiality back wonderded why She ever left.[&:]

Sincerely, Ant[;)]

[image]local://upfiles/19655/37B327822BA643CABB262BB999CD2D69.gif[/image]


Strangely enough, it isn't your comments that are making me want to stab you, it's your use of erroneous capitalization. The only time you capitalize a word is if a) it is at the beginning of a sentence b) it is the word "I" c) it is a proper noun d) it is a title (there are additional rules for which words in a title you are allowed to capitalize).

Okay, now let's address what you actually said. You are wrong. The Bible is a work of literature. It is probable that there was a man named Jesus that was cruxified, but that's about all that historians are willing to admit, just as historians believe that the battle of Troy did occur, but do not believe that Homer's Iliad is an accurate account of it. Historians do not believe that the battle of Troy occured because of an argument between the godesses (Athena and Aphrodite especially) over which one was more beautiful involving a golden apple and Paris. That would be just as idiotic as actually thinking that Jesus is the son of God, and he raised people from the dead.

The Bible is anything but historical fact. All historians, even devoutly religious ones know this.

I'm sorry that your aunt spent 20 years as an athiest (not capitalized, because atheism is a philosophy, not a religion). This often happens with older people. They get closer to death, and fear of death makes them suddenly believe in God. It's not an unknown phenomenon, and it's the same thing that happened to the professor you are talking about it.

It's sad that people are willing to sacrifice truth just to experience comfort. I'm sorry for what happened to your aunt.



darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 2:47:26 PM)

quote:

The Bible is anything but historical fact. All historians, even devoutly religious ones know this.


The bible is actually quite historically factual - most historians will explain this to you. The happenings /stories/parables/psalms - whatever you want to call them might not sit well with you, but the history is quite acurate.

My Opinion?(yup - no one asked for it)[:D]

I don't understand why people have to ridicule each other. I don't understand the need to call something idiotic just because you don't believe in it. You don't believe, fine - but why attack something and not just move on with your own life. I also don't understand the need to tell someone that the devils at their door. Or talk in a degrading way just because someone might have a different belief system to you.

Some people think the bibles wrong - thats a personal choice - they don't believe in any gods - thats their choice. To attack them for not having that belief system is done from fear.

Some people hate rock music, think its the devils own - again, fear and insecurities.

Some people think all subs are abuse victims and all doms are sadistic, uncaring arseholes and that BDSM is some sick, twisted invention by an unstable psycology. They fear that which they do not know.

Some people want to misuse religious texts in the pursuit of their own desires and the urge to try and control not just the life of gay couples, but yours and mine. Why interfere in a gay couples relationship? - fear and jealousy. Because they have something that the protestors want - peace within themselves and knowing love.

Does it make everyone feel better to ridicule each other, instead of just accepting the difference and move on? DO you think it gives you more power over another?

Wow - welcome to democracy.

Peace and Love



knees2you -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 3:08:20 PM)

Lepidoptera,
Yeah that's a Nice one!

Anyways You Do everything You can to Disprove The Bilbe and Jesus
But Can Show me nothing better~~~
Anyways.

quote:

"You can see but Yet still be blind."


And Rmember Ezekiel Saw the wheel~


Sincerely, Ant

[image]local://upfiles/19655/924D99021D2B428C9C92F5684DD5EFB7.jpg[/image]



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 3:33:23 PM)

You know? When I first posted this thread I was curious about how others in the lifestyle felt about the personal rights and or freedoms of the homosexual community. Right now I’m shocked by the outrageous insults being thrown at one another, the accusations being made and the misunderstandings being blown out of proportion. This proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that too many people simply react without thinking first. I didn’t ask anyone what their religious beliefs were and I didn’t state mine... Which is, FYI... I am a strong believer in the Bible and in Jesus. I take my faith very seriously, I’ll face one Judge that matters to me and it isn’t someone that walks this earth.

Having said that... I’m all for same-sex marriage. Not because I believe that homosexuality is ok, it’s neither here nor there as far as I’m concerned, but because no matter whom you choose to spend your life with, no matter what gender you choose to have sex with you are still a human being and deserve all the rights and or freedoms that the monogamous community has. You (the collective “you”) can preach all you want, some will listen, some won’t. You (again, the collective “you) can practice your own beliefs or faiths all you want, some will see it as wrong and some will not. You can do that because those freedoms are guaranteed you in the laws of this country. But before you start judging others that don’t match your faith or beliefs perhaps you had better take a step back and maybe walk a mile in their shoes. You would be in a place where the law of the land says you were a second class citizen. A place where you could spend your whole life living with the person you love, devoting your time, energy, money and passion on that person, but in the end, when that person becomes ill and is hospitalized, you, the person that knows them best, are not allowed to see them, are not allowed to make the final arrangements when they die, are not allowed to make any decisions concerning a living will or life-support. And if there are any little ones involved... even if you have helped to raise them from birth to the teen years, you still have no say about them. You will never be allowed to stand before a Justice of the Peace and join legally with your chosen partner, you will never be allowed to add them to your insurance through work, you will always be an outcast.

As far as money goes... In a homosexual relationship, since insurance companies won’t allow same-sex partners to be added to the others insurance policy where they work then if there is ever a catastrophic accident or long term illness.... the state will end up picking up the tab, that’s money out of every tax payers pocket.

And last but not least... Haven’t we learned how ugly discrimination is by now? Has the past taught us nothing? If for no other reason then simply because we can not and should not allow discrimination against any group of people to be written into any state or federal law because if we allow that, if we give one inch, then who will be next?

Jewel



perverseangelic -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 4:37:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

Lepidoptera,
Yeah that's a Nice one!

Anyways You Do everything You can to Disprove The Bilbe and Jesus
But Can Show me nothing better~~~
Anyways.

quote:

"You can see but Yet still be blind."


And Rmember Ezekiel Saw the wheel~


Sincerely, Ant

[image]local://upfiles/19655/924D99021D2B428C9C92F5684DD5EFB7.jpg[/image]



Can show you nothing better than what? An excellent illustration of the position of many individuals?

Look, I have -no- desire to change your religious beliefs. You're welcome to think whatever makes you happiest. What I -do- seek to change is the attitude with which you speak to individuals who don't happen to share those beliefs. I think you'd get a LOT farther and perhaps even evangelize effectivly if you didn't feel the need to call people who don't think the same as you satanic.

Nothin' wrong with being religious of any breed. Point is, there are -lots- of 'em and plenty of people don't subscribe to any. No religion that I've ever seen has solid, irrefutable facts to back it up. Note: the bible is not a solid, irrefutable fact any more than the book of mormon is. Similar origins, just different lengths of time ago.


Incidentally: Lepidoptera, I love you.



darkinshadows -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 4:47:38 PM)

quote:

And last but not least... Haven’t we learned how ugly discrimination is by now? Has the past taught us nothing? If for no other reason then simply because we can not and should not allow discrimination against any group of people to be written into any state or federal law because if we allow that, if we give one inch, then who will be next?

Jewel


Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Your words are so true.

Peace and Love



snmsub -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 4:56:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

... I’m all for same-sex marriage. Not because I believe that homosexuality is ok, it’s neither here nor there as far as I’m concerned, but because no matter whom you choose to spend your life with, no matter what gender you choose to have sex with you are still a human being and deserve all the rights and or freedoms that the monogamous community has.

Jewel


Thank you for eloquently saying what I was thinking.

It is not my business to be in anyone elses bedroom, anymore than it is their business to be in my bedroom.
A persons sex life does not affect me in the least, so why should it concern me??

There are many people who would look at the Dominant/submissive lifestyle that many of us lead and condemn all of us straight to hell. So I ask, who are we to condemn others based on their sexuality?



ScooterTrash -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 5:50:06 PM)

So true and elequently put SJ, if people can't be human first, care about their fellow man (woman) and have the common courtesy to allow others to seek out their own happiness....it doesn't matter a fart in a hailstorm what religious beliefs they do or don't have.



knees2you -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 9:46:32 PM)

I'm Not trying to "Change anybody's Belief, Please You won't to change mine!"

Thanks, Anthony

[image]local://upfiles/19655/50C18A7E534048B2BEC35CE50E1A6EBD.gif[/image]



knees2you -> RE: Same-sex marriage (6/9/2005 9:50:20 PM)

This was suppose to be about Same sex marriages.
I guess We've gotten off that path~~[&:]

Thanks, Ant



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