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Oh holy hell.

Regardless whether or not the 10 commandments are part of the constitution there is -still- an ammendement which prohibits abridgment of the practice of religion.

If government advocating a set of beliefs and making laws which protect those beliefs, and the beliefs espoused run counter to my religious beliefs, they are abridging my practice of religion.

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"Vengence is mine sayith the Lord."

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ORIGINAL: knees2you

Yes Your Right lets just Ignore God and His Son.

The Woman that got Prayer out of Schools was Hmmmm
What happened to Her??
"Oh Yes, She was Murdered!"

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

By taking seriously the argument that law in the United States should be based on an evangelical interpretation of St. Paul, this thread has totally gone off the deep end.

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Because the Ten Commandments were incorporated by your forefathers into the original Law. Thou shalt not steal or murder A/anyone? There are roots there and there are those that are not actively and vindictively seeking to strip Christianity out of every facet of every day life that recognize the importance and origin of those documents.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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Because the Ten Commandments were incorporated by your forefathers into the original Law. Thou shalt not steal or murder A/anyone? There are roots there and there are those that are not actively and vindictively seeking to strip Christianity out of every facet of every day life that recognize the importance and origin of those documents.

The 10 commandments are not the roots of common sense. They are a list. Moses was a great philosopher who got inspiration from a divinity he believed to exist.

The 10 commandements are a mix of common sense mixed in with one man's perception. I apply this common sense (which is found in religions much older then christianity) and interpret it with my own perceptions.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin
Biblically speaking You are quite incorrect.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin
Biblically speaking You are quite incorrect.

But the Bible is not *my* holy book so it doesn't really matter if your bible considers me correct or not.

The problem with holding one book as the ultimate gospel is that it denies you all other perspectives.

And I stand my ground that this post has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It has to do with human rights.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin


The problem is, if you are going to take one thing out of the Bible and attempt to apply your interpretations of it, You MUST take the entire thing in it's context. Something You are conveniently forgetting to do. To assume that the Ten Commandments are legit, legitimizing that portion of the Bible if no other, You MUST also accept that their source is equally legit.

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ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin


The problem is, if you are going to take one thing out of the Bible and attempt to apply your interpretations of it, You MUST take the entire thing in it's context. Something You are conveniently forgetting to do. To assume that the Ten Commandments are legit, legitimizing that portion of the Bible if no other, You MUST also accept that their source is equally legit.

She didnt' say it was legit. She said she thought it was common sense. Saying you believe something is a good idea doesn't necessarially mean that you believe it to be the word of god.

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin


Ahh, but she did in fact give it legitimacy by saying that the Ten Commandments were this.... She did not deny their existance, she says they do in fact exist and gave her own faulty interpretation of how Moses came about getting them, simply because she chose to take only one part of the story and apply her own faulty understandings to it.

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I do not believe anyone should pick and choose what they want to believe, but you see there is a difference between trying to take everything literally and totally missing the whole point of what the Bible is trying to say and actually applying the various contexts and understanding what it truly means... When you understand what a passage is truly talking about you discard nothing. In fact the truth will set you free, far more so than the crap that wraps the left- or right wings up in their literalist or extremist nonsense and rules. They end up either living in a cramped wooden box (the right) or so far out in left field that they have missed the road entirely.

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The problem is, if you are going to take one thing out of the Bible and attempt to apply your interpretations of it, You MUST take the entire thing in it's context. Something You are conveniently forgetting to do. To assume that the Ten Commandments are legit, legitimizing that portion of the Bible if no other, You MUST also accept that their source is equally legit.

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Exactly. And to be quite honest, the OP never advocated religious same-sex marriage, simply legal. So every single argument that uses religion as a basis for denying same-sex marriage is moot. There is absolutely no legal reason to deny same-sex marriage. In fact, denying goes against fundamental human rights principles and is discriminatory.

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"We can see, but yet still be Blind!"

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ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
Again, agreeing that something exists doesn't mean you take it to be the god-given truth. As I understood it, she was saying that she didn't believe that the 10 commandments were the inspired word of god.

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin

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ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
Again, agreeing that something exists doesn't mean you take it to be the god-given truth. As I understood it, she was saying that she didn't believe that the 10 commandments were the inspired word of god.

But that is not the way it works. You do not go taking a portion out of the Bible and say "Yes, this is true", yet in the very next breathe say "but how the Bible says it arrived there is not true". That is being selective in Y/your approach and has absolutely no legitimacy whatsoever. Either accept the facts as they are presented or deny them as a whole. To say "Moses did in fact create the Ten Commandments, what the Bible says there is true, but how the Bible says that he arrived at them is not" is living in a fantasy land.

As far as establishing what the Bible actually says, it is really quite simple, although organized religion makes it quite complicated and I can not stand them as a result. Y/you study the original Greek and Hebrew, the history and context surrounding the passage in question, Lexicons, dictionaries and commentaries and Y/you piece the whole thing together.

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ORIGINAL: perverseangelic


I disagree. One can most asuredly take one part of something as a good idea but disagree with the origin.

Lets say, for example, that I believe that god has spoken to me. I write down a book in which I say that it's a really bad idea to kill people and that god doesn't like it. Someone else reading that book can agree that it's a really bad idea to kill people and not believe god spoke to me. I've said something that's a good idea, that someone else believes to be morally sound, but that person disagrees with the reasons behind why I said it.

Being spoken to by god isn't the only way to get a good idea. I didn't say the ten comandments are true. I said they're a pretty decent way to live. I think that the values they advocate, and the way they advocate living is a positive way to live. I don't think that someone has to be spoken to by god to come up with principals that help people's lives. For example, I don't think that the person who invented...hrm...say the vacuum cleaner was spoken to by god. He came up with a really good idea, that makes people's lives better. That's it.

I honestly have no idea whether or not Moses actually existed, or Jesus or anyone in the bible. It is easier to act as if they did, but if you prefer I can throw that out too, because, again, their actual existence doesn't take away from some of the things which I like in the bible.

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin


But this conversation is not about what you think. That, quite frankly, is immaterial. What you and I are discussing is what another member has presented, whose view appears for all intents and purposes to be erroneous. Whether you think they (edit: the Ten Commandments) are true or not, or a good idea or not, or God inspired or otherwise, is not the topic of O/our discussion. On this point I am sure that W/we can both agree.

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin
Biblically speaking You are quite incorrect.

But the Bible is not *my* holy book so it doesn't really matter if your bible considers me correct or not.

The problem with holding one book as the ultimate gospel is that it denies you all other perspectives.

And I stand my ground that this post has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It has to do with human rights.

- LA

The problem is, if you are going to take one thing out of the Bible and attempt to apply your interpretations of it, You MUST take the entire thing in it's context. Something You are conveniently forgetting to do. To assume that the Ten Commandments are legit, legitimizing that portion of the Bible if no other, You MUST also accept that their source is equally legit.

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin
Ahh, but she did in fact give it legitimacy by saying that the Ten Commandments were this.... She did not deny their existance, she says they do in fact exist and gave her own faulty interpretation of how Moses came about getting them, simply because she chose to take only one part of the story and apply her own faulty understandings to it.

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But this conversation is not about what you think.