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Reality Check - 5/19/2005 7:37:06 AM   
realist


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have noticed a large trend in our community, if it can be called a community anymore. Fantasy has outstripped reality for many of us, maybe even the majority. In fantasyland, people give up their lives, jobs, and homes, when they meet a suitable dominant. It's as if they have no real life at all. So many people now have this sort of fantasy in their ads that real world BDSM players with reasonable desires, are the minority. This trend has escalated and now the online aspect of the BDSM lifestyle, or rather, the preference of BDSM sexuality, which it really is, the online aspect of our "community" has fractured away from what real-life BDSM is.

Fantasyland has grown into a contest to see who can be the most dominant or submissive. Any time either bluff is called, they run like rabbits into a hole and disappear. If these people sought BDSM sexuality instead of a full blown "lifestyle", maybe they could obtain some of what they seek instead of running from an overdose of it.

Another area where you can really see how much fantasy, or non-reality, has crept into out "community", is the utterly untrue and ridiculous notion of "financial fetishism". Getting free money is NOT a valid fetish. I refuse to honor the pretended BS that anyone gets sexual stimulation from getting a new car. If that's realistic, how come nobody on Bob Barker's The Price Is Right ever collapsed in massive orgasm?

Ever meet a 24/7 slave? There is no such thing. I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....and I won't give all that up for fantasy.

The fact is, some masochists are extremely potent individuals. They're in total control of their lives. They bust ass in life and when they play, they want to release all that. Jung called that hidden aspect the "shadow". So, it is lunacy, fantasy gone way too far, to expect masochists of this type to ever be willing to give up everything from all their strong sides just to satisfy one set of desires.

I'm sick of the BS this "community" has devolved to. I'm not here to meet people from online, I'm here to call the Emporer naked and let it hit the fan. I want the internet to be a useful resource instead of fantasyland and money seeking, and thusly, something most realistic players have little use for.

If changes were made along the lines discussed here, the community would grow massively in both quality and quantity, and the internet would be a gathering place and resource for us instead of the shadow of that. (pun intended)

Have a nice day



< Message edited by realist -- 5/19/2005 7:40:18 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 7:43:35 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		A M E N!!!!!

My sentiments exactly. Thank you for posting this. As someone who is actually a real time member of the BDSM scene, I totally and completely concur with everything you've said.

I too, and tired of debating this fantasy when the evidence of my reality has been that much differant.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 7:55:30 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The issues you discuss here are present in every single culture, in every single sub-culture and have been throughout every single time period in history.

Such is life.

Of course, putting down other peoples fetishes is also a time-honored "high-quality" tradition in our community, one which you seem to employ quite easily.

I consider myself a 24/7 slave, because to me it's HOW I operate in the world, not WHAT I'm doing. Some masters DO want their slave to give up their job/house to be with them, and some slave DO accept and are greatly fulfilled by it.

You also seem to be confusing "masochist" with "bottom/sub/slave"


(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 7:59:34 AM   
Kindred2Evil


Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline 		The internet is a wonderful tool, it broadens the horizons and the mind in ways nothing has before it. You can talk with people on the other side of the earth with a click of a mouse...amazing.

It's also brought out the worst of humanity. Stalkers, rapists, murders all now have a way to find lil ole you much easier. Everything about you is posted somewhere, filed away in records etc etc.
Lovely thought hmm..

As far as this community goes, if you live your life on the net, never get out into the real world, what's the point of doing it? I have never, nor will I ever understand online D/s or S&M. Go ahead, get mad rant if you like, but the truth remains, how the hell do you control someone 1,000 miles away? If you're honest, you can't. I've met people off the net, and found them to be everything from polite to complete frauds. I wouldn't say the net has been bad for the community, as it does bring groups together, but it has it's flaws.
You can't say there is no such thing as 24/7, many couples live this way all the time, so I have to argue that. When you give up your home and move in, possibly marry your Dom/me or sub/slave, then what would you call it if not 24/7?? Some people give up their desire to work outside the home to be there 24/7. I see nothing wrong with that at all. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't, dont' throw rotten apples at the ones who do have it. You come across as bitter and jealous.
No one said a masochist had to give up anything. That's the difference between masochism and submission or slavery. It's about being true to yourself, to what you really want, to what you need to make your life feel complete.
I agree that in some respects the online community as such is a crock, but I also have to state there are real people here who live this way every day, who thrive in that environment. It's not for everyone granted, but again, if it works for you run with it.
You have fakes, wanna be's and newbies who get confused with the two all the time. The net offers excellent resources to those that may be just beginning this journey. This site let's all kinds of people come together, exchange ideas, potentially meet the one that completes them.
If you're just here to stir up shit, I hate it for you. I hate it that you feel the online community is a waste..to me it's not. It's no different than meeting a group of people, you have all kinds.
Hope this made sense, I was typing so fast it did in my head *laughs* Hope it does on paper.


_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 8:00:01 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I don't know anyone who plays all the time.

I do know people, myself included, who live their dynamic at all times. Regarldess of how that dynamic looks to the outside world, it's always there and it doesn't go away. In my book, that is "24/7" though I don't claim that phrase because it has connotations I don't want.

I agree with you in part, however, I disagree that because we don't "play" at all times, our dynamic somehow goes away.

I -don't- give up my personal strenght. I do have a power dynamic with my partner that exists at all times, whether or not someone other than us can see it.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 8:06:54 AM   
Kiaban


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I don't know anyone who plays all the time.

I do know people, myself included, who live their dynamic at all times. Regarldess of how that dynamic looks to the outside world, it's always there and it doesn't go away. In my book, that is "24/7" though I don't claim that phrase because it has connotations I don't want.

I agree with you in part, however, I disagree that because we don't "play" at all times, our dynamic somehow goes away.

I -don't- give up my personal strenght. I do have a power dynamic with my partner that exists at all times, whether or not someone other than us can see it.

and to that I say "Amen"

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 8:22:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I want the internet to be a useful resource instead of fantasyland and money seeking,


Can we base your sincerity on the assets and income you posted on your profile?

quote:

I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....


That mindset is your problem. Limiting your definnition of lifestyle to the "playtime" aspect. In that case you are correct. But who would want to strive for such a shallow relationship anyway? If all you seek is sensation then you will never achieve the sensational.

Merc (24/7 Owner of a 24/7 slave)

PS - Getting in the car (yes car - or the toys & beth's costume changes would have had to fly out ahead) to Vegas so someone will have to watch my ass after this post.

We're bringing a camera. There will be pictures of us and anyone else who allows their picture to be taken. Hoping to get at least one big CM group pic. Stay tuned!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/19/2005 8:58:15 AM >

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 8:36:17 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realist
I have noticed a large trend in our community, if it can be called a community anymore. Fantasy has outstripped reality for many of us, maybe even the majority. In fantasyland, people give up their lives, jobs, and homes, when they meet a suitable dominant. It's as if they have no real life at all. So many people now have this sort of fantasy in their ads that real world BDSM players with reasonable desires, are the minority. This trend has escalated and now the online aspect of the BDSM lifestyle, or rather, the preference of BDSM sexuality, which it really is, the online aspect of our "community" has fractured away from what real-life BDSM is.


I understand your frustration over separating the chaff from the wheat. The internet is a true democracy where all voices are equal. Its tough to sort out who is speaking from experience and who is speaking out of their ass.

Of course, the way to keep things real is to keep to real things. Munches and events foster a real BDSM community. I am not sure where in West Virginia you live but if you attend munches I think you will be able to slake your thirst for BDSM community.

Now, I do think it is possible for community to form online. And we do have one, of sorts, here in the Collarme message boards. You are totally new here and haven't been around long enough to learn who is who and where they stand in their lives. Observing people over time is a necessary thing to get to know them. If you do not have the patience for investing that time, I think you will continue to find your online experiences very frustrating.

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 8:46:32 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline


quote:

Ever meet a 24/7 slave? There is no such thing. I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....and I won't give all that up for fantasy.



Ummm....I am a 24/7 real time slave so there evidently there is such a thing unless I am a figment of an illusion. Slaves have a life. I am busy, hard working and moderatly successful and a slave. They don't have to be separated.

'Play' is not a part of all M/s relationships (although I do like the S/m facet also). I am also a Christian but I don't pray every moment of the day or go to Church morning, noon and night. Does that mean I am not a 24/7 Christian? I hate using religion as an analogy but it works in this situation.


I DO like the other ideas you brought up. Good points...I shall ponder.

Regards In Leather,
Elegant

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 11:19:13 AM   
darksparkle


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline 		I understand where you are coming from in your post although I do not agree 100%. I refuse to bash you for posting your thoughts. Instead I will try and explain my take on it.

For myself I am able to live in a 24/7 D/s relationship. I can honestly say this because it goes beyond the physical aspect, as it's not so much about "play" as it is about the total mindset that is constantly instilled.

There are certain aspects that need to be present in able to create this Internal Enslavement mindset, to fuel it and sustain it so the relationship remains balanced, so as not to undermine the mindset.

This is where it appears to become "fantasyland" (in the eyes of some.) When there is not an understanding, therefore lacks certain criteria that would enable a relationship that completely benefits the needs of both involved as far as Internal Enslavement goes. Usually a case of never having it, so one does not actually know what they are missing. Therefore, "It's all good!"

I do not believe that means they live in a D/s "fantasyland." We all live on different levels....

Knowing what I have learned in regard to Internal Enslavement and applying it to my D/s relationship enables a healthy balanced relationship for myself & nothing less would do now that I know the difference. But that does not make me better than anyone, it just makes my life better than it was before I understood the Internal Enslavement concept and found one that uses these dynamics.

On another note:
There are some that find relief in the humiliation of financial gifting. Thus the circle of supply and demand is created.


Edited to add:
Yes there are those that do, in fact, use the Internet as their D/s fantasyland playground. Their words and actions usually betray their intent if deception is their game.


< Message edited by darksparkle -- 5/19/2005 1:52:55 PM >

_____________________________

He reaches down & his fingers caress my cheek. Lifting my chin, his intense gaze holds me as he tells me to dance in the way that we choose to live. "Dance for me, my little sparkle, dance to the beat of a different drummer."....

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 2:17:45 PM   
dragonofjapan


Posts: 91
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline 		What!?! There are different kinds of BDSM? Next thing you'll try be be saying things like they eat different kinds of food, shop at unauthorized stores and have thoughts outside those allowed in the BDSM manual Chapter 5 through 7.

For myself, I do not play.
I do not have relationships which involve someone living at there house and myself living at mine, after the initial test driving period.
I do not think someone who has their own thoughts, a career or even social friends other than mine cannot be in a marraige with me and deeply commited to serving me as I am commited to serving them.

Your take sounds just a bit anal to me.

Now there certainly more than your fair share of wannabees, posers, and people who live on line only. I find there are a number of them, likely in the 60+% range here in collarme. So what.

Lot of assholes in the world in general.

If the Republican Party can say they are Christian, while trying to jail anyone who acts in any manner like Christ, why can't all the folks here think they are lifestylers?

Zip

_____________________________

He who rules truly serves
She who serves truly rules

Life is not measured by the breaths we take,
but by the things which take our breath away

Honor is not making good choices,
it is dealing with the consequences.

(in reply to darksparkle)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 2:29:13 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

I'm sick of the BS this "community" has devolved to. I'm not here to meet people from online, I'm here to call the Emporer naked and let it hit the fan. I want the internet to be a useful resource instead of fantasyland and money seeking, and thusly, something most realistic players have little use for.


Ah - so a new 'saviour' arrives - the son who will save us from ourselves.
Interesting...

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 3:27:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I was gonna say that there never WAS such a thing as a BDSM "community," but dark~angel put it better than I could.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 3:40:23 PM   
Tempestspet


Posts: 360
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		There is a good portion of your post that I agree with. However, I'm 24/7. We do not play all the time. We have lives. But because I am about my Master's business, and he is always in my thoughts concerning the things I do, I call this 24/7 . I don't get breaks, or vacations from this lifestyle. This is simply the way we live.


Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 5:19:18 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....

That mindset is your problem. Limiting your definnition of lifestyle to the "playtime" aspect. In that case you are correct. But who would want to strive for such a shallow relationship anyway? If all you seek is sensation then you will never achieve the sensational.


I don't consider BDSM a lifestyle for me. I accept that it's a lifestyle for others. BDSM is a part of me. It is integral to my sexuality. Dominance is integral to my personality.

As Merc said, it is not all about playtime. Of course you can not live 24/7 in play mode.

Though 24/7 is not for me, I completely accept that it works for people like Merc & beth, dark~angel and Demon, EmeraldSlave2 and her owner, and many, many more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
Of course, putting down other peoples fetishes is also a time-honored "high-quality" tradition in our community, one which you seem to employ quite easily.


I got to agree 100% with Em on this.

realist, you really have no right to say what is a legitimate fetish and what isn't. This is your first post here. I hope you will take the time to look around and see that we tend to give each other a little bit more respect and consideration.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 5:31:44 PM   
Shayna


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:



I want the internet to be a useful resource instead of fantasyland and money seeking

mercnbeth:

Can we base your sincerity on the assets and income you posted on your profile?


LOL I was thinking the same thing when I viewed his profile. For the OP: I read your whole profile AND I have ADD.


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 5:49:15 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		You are sooooooooooooo unpolitically correct Realist. Enjoy, enjoy enjoy, the thread you've created = ) You broke a rule and yer gonna get in trouble (said in a sing song little girl voice)


YOU have a good day as i will watching what the responses are = )

(and good luck)

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 5:52:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You are sooooooooooooo unpolitically correct Realist.


Not only is he unpolitically correct, he is also very unrealistic!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 6:55:09 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: realist

I have noticed a large trend in our community, if it can be called a community anymore. Fantasy has outstripped reality for many of us, maybe even the majority. In fantasyland, people give up their lives, jobs, and homes, when they meet a suitable dominant. It's as if they have no real life at all. So many people now have this sort of fantasy in their ads that real world BDSM players with reasonable desires, are the minority. This trend has escalated and now the online aspect of the BDSM lifestyle, or rather, the preference of BDSM sexuality, which it really is, the online aspect of our "community" has fractured away from what real-life BDSM is.

Fantasyland has grown into a contest to see who can be the most dominant or submissive. Any time either bluff is called, they run like rabbits into a hole and disappear. If these people sought BDSM sexuality instead of a full blown "lifestyle", maybe they could obtain some of what they seek instead of running from an overdose of it.

Another area where you can really see how much fantasy, or non-reality, has crept into out "community", is the utterly untrue and ridiculous notion of "financial fetishism". Getting free money is NOT a valid fetish. I refuse to honor the pretended BS that anyone gets sexual stimulation from getting a new car. If that's realistic, how come nobody on Bob Barker's The Price Is Right ever collapsed in massive orgasm?


Some of them sure looked like they might have.....
quote:


Ever meet a 24/7 slave? There is no such thing. I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....and I won't give all that up for fantasy.

The fact is, some masochists are extremely potent individuals. They're in total control of their lives. They bust ass in life and when they play, they want to release all that. Jung called that hidden aspect the "shadow". So, it is lunacy, fantasy gone way too far, to expect masochists of this type to ever be willing to give up everything from all their strong sides just to satisfy one set of desires.

I'm sick of the BS this "community" has devolved to. I'm not here to meet people from online, I'm here to call the Emporer naked and let it hit the fan. I want the internet to be a useful resource instead of fantasyland and money seeking, and thusly, something most realistic players have little use for.

If changes were made along the lines discussed here, the community would grow massively in both quality and quantity, and the internet would be a gathering place and resource for us instead of the shadow of that. (pun intended)

Have a nice day




In answer to one of your questions, I know at present 2 24/7 full time slaves that are definitely 24/7. One is male and has a Mistress, and yes he works, and actually has a very prominent well paying career. In case you try to justify your statement with the fact that he has a job, and therefore is not a valid example, I also know a female slave with a Master. Her only job is whatever her Master wishes her to do, and he can be a harsh taskmaster, as is his right. There also many more "real 24/7" on this site. It looks like you are new to the boards(one day old!!!!!);take the time to read some of the threads on ask a mistress and ask a master, and ask a submissive...and THEN possibly make a decision as to whether ot not you see true dominants and submissives on that board, that in your words, are real and do live the lifestyle. There are many different types of people on this site, in the lifestyle, in vanilla life, you name it, and to make such sweeping generalizations about everybody in the lifestyle does not speak much for your character judgement abilities. You are definitely trying to get it to "hit the fan" in your terminology, and I'm sure that you have made an impression that you quite possibly seek to make with the CM community.

Your statements are remarkably like a poster recently that said he was from the UK , as far as the financial aspects. Amazingly, for the both of you to harp about money, he also put an income on his profile, and yours looks like you filled in zeros until all the spaces were filled up. So, now who's truly being a realist???? Also, your profile may say sub, but your attitude does not bespeak sub. It does not sound dominant. And, realist,
quote:

Ever meet a 24/7 slave? There is no such thing. I live that "lifestyle" and get about 2 hours a week of playtime, because I have a life and it's busy, hard work, successful.....and I won't give all that up for fantasy.
living the lifestyle is not playtime, it is LIFE. Some of us are in the lifestyle, and do not or cannot live it 24/7 and that should be an individual choice. Sometimes the lifestyle has nothing to do with PLAYTIME..... If all you are in actuality looking for is playtime, then just say you have kinks and go for it. Don't diss others, that, whether or not 24/7, know that is is possible. Until you personally know everyone in this world that believes or lives in the lifestyle, you can't possible make an accurate statement about their capabilities in life, unless you have truly examined it firsthand.

quote:

I have little hope of meeting anyone from online because it is there that the fantasy realm exists the most strongly. In the online world, realistic guys like me are nothing, there's a zillion fantasy players who have fully stocked dungeons and huge bank accounts to offer. These are the people screaming "be for real" in their ads.

Yeah. Sure. Right.


You know what? You have been on this site one whole day,.. If you have already decided that there is too little hope of you finding anyone, get offline...go to munches, meetings, etc... and don't do online, no one is twisting your arm to stay.

quote:

Someone needs to lead a movement for change in this "community". There's only a small number of us who are "for real" and not lost in fantasy, and mature enough to experience the things we desire, instead of run from them as soon as a taste of them possibly emerges.

If you're a realist, and not in fantasy land and not a money seeker, please send me a note so I won't feel like I'm one of ....a dozen or so. I'd enjoy making friends even if we're too far apart to meet or play.


So, lead the movement for change, if you think one needs to be led. The one thing I do agree with you(with just a little twist) is there are a small number that are for real. I just am not sure you are in that group as you say you are. I cannot tell you the number of fakers, wannabes, and general waste of timers that fill up my email box. I have, however, found some that have interested me, and even if our interests and needs don't mesh, I have definitely talked to some and met some that were for real.


quote:

If you're a realist, and not in fantasy land and not a money seeker, please send me a note so I won't feel like I'm one of ....a dozen or so.


Here's your note you requested from a "real person" , however, although the numbers are small, I think yours is very low in its estimation.



< Message edited by kc692 -- 5/19/2005 7:08:30 PM >

(in reply to realist)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Reality Check - 5/19/2005 6:56:11 PM   
realist


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		I'm travelling this weekend and won't be back for a few days. I thank those who had sincere things to say. I look forward to giving well made points a reply when I get back. I hope everyone has a nice weekend.

realist


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 20
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