The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read!

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FatDomDaddy -> The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 6:59:17 PM)
At first it reads as a brilliant satire, in the traditions of Swift, Franklin and Twain: SENATOR INHOFE OPENING STATEMENT "The Issue of the Potential Impacts of Global Warming on Recreation and the Recreation Industry" Thursday May 24, 2007 The recreation industry’s true threats come not from climate change – which has always changed and will always change – but from the so-called global warming ‘solutions’... In short, it is a direct threat America’s way of life. If we cannot fly to remote locations, and if few automobiles are capable of pulling boats, jet skies, and campers, and if RVs become a thing of the past as environmentalists would like, then minor climate fluctuations will have little impact on recreation because Americans will not have the means to recreate. But then it really hits a home run with this... “Kenyan farmers, whose lifelong carbon emissions are negligible compared with their counterparts in the West, are fast becoming the victims of a green campaign that could threaten their livelihoods. A recent bold statement by UK supermarket Tesco ushering in ‘carbon friendly’ measures - such as restricting the imports of air freighted goods by half and the introduction of "carbon counting" labeling - has had environmentalists dancing in the fresh produce aisles, but has left African horticulturists confused and concerned.” “Half of this produce goes to the UK's supermarkets, generating at least £100m per year for this developing country. The dependence on the UK market cannot be underestimated, says Stephen Mbithi Mwikya, chief executive of FPEAK. For Kenya, horticulture is the country's second biggest foreign exchange earner after tourism. ‘This announcement from Tesco is devastating’, says Mr Mbithi http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=becca832-802a-23ad-4bfb-83e5e5c26acf&Region_id=&Issue_id=

DesertRat -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 7:47:48 PM)
My god what a BOMBSHELL!!!!! The "recreation industry" and some Kenyan farmers are...wait for it...concerned? We can't have that. I think they are really referring to some lobbyists for the *segment* of the rec industry that relies on people wasting lots of gas and/or making lots of noise. There are other forms of recreation, after all, and many Americans (but not enough) get their jollies without being piggy. What we need is less motoring and more fucking. Or maybe more efficient motoring and, yes, more fucking. The farmers? They can ship their stuff to the U.S. Our present government doesn't give a shit about environmental concerns. More fucking could probably help with this problem, too; it surely wouldn't hurt...unless someone wants it to hurt, which can also be fun...okay, I'm rambling... This is the best argument against the contributions of humans to global warming you've read? It's so weak, it's hilarious.[:D] Bob

juliaoceania -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:15:25 PM)
quote: What we need is less motoring and more fucking Perhaps if we were able to harness the energy produced by fucking, people could sell it back the grid? It would create even more incentive to get it on, can you imagine the conversations before bedtime? "Honey, we have to screw tonight, keeping the pool heated cost more in the winter"

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:22:23 PM)
As humorous as I am sure some people will find it, I have always found that the speeches given by Michael Crichton are extremely provocative to the debate over "global warming." If you have the time to actually read and digest the entire speech, I would highly recommend the following, as I consider them to be some of the most clear and concise rebuttals of "global warming" that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. "Aliens Cause Global Warming" http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote04.html "Environmentalism as Religion" http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html "Science Policy in the 21st Century" http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote08.html "Testimony of Michael Crichton before the United States Senate" http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote09.html Enjoy. -Sicarius

FatDomDaddy -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:37:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius As humorous as I am sure some people will find it, I have always found that the speeches given by Michael Crichton are extremely provocative to the debate over "global warming." Crichton is as brilliant a scientist as he is an author. The greenies and lefties loathe him.

philosophy -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:40:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Crichton is as brilliant a scientist as he is an author. ...so reasonably good then? He's an ok writer with some good ideas.......but brilliant? i don't think so.

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:43:10 PM)
I agree. I fear that often times, people discount him in the same light as they would Hubbard -- "just a crazy science fiction author," even though the two could not be more dissimilar. The man is a hell of a scientist, and I sincerely appreciate his concern over the integration of policy within the pursuit of scientific fact. At the basis of his arguments, Crichton is not even really arguing against "global warming" ... merely the insane notions that some will entertain because of the herd-like mentality cultivated by policy makers in Washington and in the media. I absolutely support his position that a branch of government responsible for scientific research should be formed to handle all incidents in which science effects policymaking, and that it should be forced to endure the same rigors as drug testing. -Sicarius

selfbnd411 -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:43:15 PM)
quote: Crichton quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius As humorous as I am sure some people will find it, I have always found that the speeches given by Michael Crichton are extremely provocative to the debate over "global warming." They should be. He makes his living writing fiction, fantasy, and tall tales. So he's a medical doctor. I guess that makes him a scientist, huh? Oh, and the part about the "experiment" cracked me up! I wonder what I could get away with if I used that excuse.... "I'm sorry officer, but when I robbed that bank it was an experiment!" "I'm sorry hon, but when I grabbed your @ss it was an experiment!" "I'm sorry God, but when I killed that guy and ate his liver it was an experiment!" Edit to add link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#Biography "He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964. ... He graduated from Harvard Medical School, gaining an M.D. in 1969 and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, La Jolla, California, in 1969–1970. ... Crichton has admitted to having once, during his undergraduate study, plagiarized a work by George Orwell and submitted it as his own. According to Crichton the paper was received by his professor with a mark of "B−". Crichton has claimed that the plagiarism was not intended to defraud the school, but rather as an experiment. Crichton believed that the professor in question had been intentionally giving him abnormally low marks, and so as an experiment Crichton informed another professor of his idea and submitted Orwell's paper as his own."

juliaoceania -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:46:10 PM)
He acknowledges global warming is happening btw, he just challenges anthropogenic causes for this. One person who is not primarily an expert in global warming, climatology, does not negate all those who are. I suppose one can believe what they want to believe. The point of the matter is we get no "re-do" if we get it wrong. Air pollution is a major problem in many parts of the world, including here. Fossils contribute to this problem. We should be looking for other ways to power our lives because fossils are finite and polluting, even if one does not believe in global warming. If those on the left are wrong (which I sincerely hope that mainstream science is wrong, but I suspect from my own research they are right) I will be very happy about that. No one wants to see human beings go through a changed planet and perhaps go extinct....

Lordandmaster -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:47:52 PM)
STOP THE PRESSES!!!!! A senator notorious for being in the pocket of Big Oil claims that global warming is a hoax. Who ever heard that one before?

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:49:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 They should be. He makes his living writing fiction, fantasy, and tall tales. So he's a medical doctor. I guess that makes him a scientist, huh? Oh, and the part about the "experiment" cracked me up! I wonder what I could get away with if I used that excuse.... "I'm sorry officer, but when I robbed that bank it was an experiment!" "I'm sorry hon, but when I grabbed your @ss it was an experiment!" "I'm sorry God, but when I killed that guy and ate his liver it was an experiment!" Edit to add link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#Biography "He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964. ... He graduated from Harvard Medical School, gaining an M.D. in 1969 and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, La Jolla, California, in 1969–1970. ... Crichton has admitted to having once, during his undergraduate study, plagiarized a work by George Orwell and submitted it as his own. According to Crichton the paper was received by his professor with a mark of "B−". Crichton has claimed that the plagiarism was not intended to defraud the school, but rather as an experiment. Crichton believed that the professor in question had been intentionally giving him abnormally low marks, and so as an experiment Crichton informed another professor of his idea and submitted Orwell's paper as his own." Are you attacking the man, or are you responding to the merit of the arguments cited? You are lingering very close to ad hominem, selfbnd411. Generally I approve of the way you present and formulate your opinions (even if I disagree with many of them), but here you are off the mark. You're falling prey to exactly what those who agree with him are railing against -- you're branding him as a heretic and slinging accusations without responding to the merit (or fault) of the arguments that he presents. -Sicarius

DomKen -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:51:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Crichton is as brilliant a scientist as he is an author. The greenies and lefties loathe him. Crichton is an M.D. A quick check of his own website indicates he has never authored a peer reviewed paper of any sort. It should be fairly clear from that that Crichton is not now and has never been a scientist. I do find this odd though, why should the opinion of an M.D. with a bachelor's in anthropology be considered more valid on this subject than the majority of atmospheric physicists and climatologists who are in widespread agreement that the Earth is warming and human activity is causing at least some of the increase?

selfbnd411 -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:52:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius Are you attacking the man, or are you responding to the merit of the arguments cited? You are lingering very close to ad hominem, selfbnd411. Generally I approve of the way you present and formulate your opinions (even if I disagree with many of them), but here you are off the mark. You're falling prey to exactly what those who agree with him are railing against -- you're branding him as a heretic and slinging accusations without responding to the merit (or fault) of the arguments that he presents. -Sicarius Of course I'm attacking the man. He's not a scientist, he's a doctor. But hey, maybe we should get a third opinion. I know a mechanic we could ask...

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:53:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania He acknowledges global warming is happening btw, he just challenges anthropogenic causes for this. One person who is not primarily an expert in global warming, climatology, does not negate all those who are. I suppose one can believe what they want to believe. The point of the matter is we get no "re-do" if we get it wrong. Air pollution is a major problem in many parts of the world, including here. Fossils contribute to this problem. We should be looking for other ways to power our lives because fossils are finite and polluting, even if one does not believe in global warming. If those on the left are wrong (which I sincerely hope that mainstream science is wrong, but I suspect from my own research they are right) I will be very happy about that. No one wants to see human beings go through a changed planet and perhaps go extinct.... In the original wording in one of the IPCC's reports, they similarly stated that no direct evidence for an anthropogenic cause had been offered. And yes, I agree (as I said in a response above) that he is not so much arguing against "global warming" as he is the manner in which we are researching it and pursuing our facts. There are some liberties being taken by scientists in researching "global warming" that are incredibly laughable for a society that distrusts a weather prediction twelve hours in the future. I think that more than anything, he is a skeptic. He wants to be convinced that we are pursuing the most reasonable course of action. Perhaps we are, but for now I remain skeptical as well. -Sicarius

FatDomDaddy -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:54:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania If those on the left are wrong (which I sincerely hope that mainstream science is wrong, but I suspect from my own research they are right) I will be very happy about that. No one wants to see human beings go through a changed planet and perhaps go extinct.... So you feel its ok to spend trillions and trillions of dollars and deny the third world's population better electricity, cars, heating, plumbing, refrigeration etc ect on a "maybe'? On a condition of this planet that we may have no... repeat...no, real control of because it is a natural not man made phenomena?

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:55:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Crichton is an M.D. A quick check of his own website indicates he has never authored a peer reviewed paper of any sort. It should be fairly clear from that that Crichton is not now and has never been a scientist. I do find this odd though, why should the opinion of an M.D. with a bachelor's in anthropology be considered more valid on this subject than the majority of atmospheric physicists and climatologists who are in widespread agreement that the Earth is warming and human activity is causing at least some of the increase? quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 Of course I'm attacking the man. He's not a scientist, he's a doctor. But hey, maybe we should get a third opinion. I know a mechanic we could ask... It is becoming exceptionally evident to me that neither one of you have any idea what you are arguing against. Go and read the speeches. You are way off the mark in what you "think" they are about compared to what he is actually saying. -Sicarius

juliaoceania -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:57:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania If those on the left are wrong (which I sincerely hope that mainstream science is wrong, but I suspect from my own research they are right) I will be very happy about that. No one wants to see human beings go through a changed planet and perhaps go extinct.... So you feel its ok to spend trillions and trillions of dollars and deny the third world's population better electricity, cars, heating, plumbing, refrigeration etc ect on a "maybe'? On a condition of this planet that we may have no... repeat...no, real control of because it is a natural not man made phenomena? Is that a question, or are you attributing an opinion to me that is 1) not my position 2) creates a false dichotomy?

DomKen -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 8:59:55 PM)
I keep asking these questions of so called global warming skeptics and I never get a response. 1) Do you deny that human activity has caused the change in atmospheric CO2 levels that has happened in the last 200 years? If so what do you claim is the source of the cO2? 2) Do you deny that the present air mix is capable of retaining more thermal energy than the air mix of 200 years ago? Do you deny that the change in CO2 concentration is the primary factor in this?

Lordandmaster -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 9:02:34 PM)
They're from 2003. Ergo they're obsolete. You have to follow climate science month to month. Unforunately, most people aren't capable of that, so they accept whatever viewpoint suits their prejudices. quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius Go and read the speeches. You are way off the mark in what you "think" they are about compared to what he is actually saying.

Sicarius -> RE: The Best "Outing" of Global Warming I have ever read! (5/27/2007 9:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I keep asking these questions of so called global warming skeptics and I never get a response. 1) Do you deny that human activity has caused the change in atmospheric CO2 levels that has happened in the last 200 years? If so what do you claim is the source of the cO2? 2) Do you deny that the present air mix is capable of retaining more thermal energy than the air mix of 200 years ago? Do you deny that the change in CO2 concentration is the primary factor in this? 1.) I do not deny it, nor do I believe it simply because it "could" be true. In the pursuit of scientific fact, you cannot arbitrarily declare relevance simply because two factors coincide with one another. This is a very easy argument to slip out of, and I'm surprised that no one you have spoken to has ever addressed it before. You need to be very careful to understand what you are arguing against. Right now you think you just walked into a conversation of yokels screaming that "there ain't no glo-bull warmin'!" and you're a bit off the mark. No one here is saying that (at least, that I have seen), nor are the sources you're debating even saying that. All that we are saying is that we want the same scrutiny applied to this "consensus" as is forced upon other facets of the scientific community for the purposes of validating their research. 2.) Nope. Do you deny that trends of global warming and global cooling have been monitored and studied dating back hundreds of thousands of years, repeating on an approximately 11,500 year cycle as proven through ice core samples from arctic shelves? One of us is correct and one of us is incorrect. This is science. We're not supposed to be arguing emotionally ... we should just want the truth. The undeniable truth is what is best for all people, regardless of what side is correct. -Sicarius

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