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reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 7:53:48 AM

phoenixinchains

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    okay Dom and Dommes alike, things can be pretty cut and dry in a play scene. but in real life, is it hard to see when Your sub/slave does something out of adoration and isn't just fulfilling their own need to serve?
   thank You for any and all replies-

    no one ever said curiousity killed a phoenix, not that death would matter- phoenix

Post #: 1

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 7:56:17 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think it's pretty easy to tell what's going on when, even more so over time as I get to know them.

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Post #: 2

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 7:58:17 AM

SottoVoce

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If it isn't the same thing, I don't want her....

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RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 8:13:20 AM

HeavansKeeper

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I'm confused... I was under the impression having your sub do something good or kind out of a need to serve you is good, and is an act of adoration.

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Post #: 4

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 8:22:35 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixinchains

okay Dom and Dommes alike, things can be pretty cut and dry in a play scene. but in real life, is it hard to see when Your sub/slave does something out of adoration and isn't just fulfilling their own need to serve?

Need answer to a question in order to answer yours; how do you define "real life"? Some would consider our "real life" an ongoing "play scene". We wouldn't place the "real" qualifier to it, instead, to us, it is just 'life'.

Answering the question under that definition, the line is blurred between "adoration" and "just fulfilling" ones needs. We would say that perspective applies to both of us. There is no "line", no concern or score board to reference of who's gotten the last orgasm or what particular 'scene' or type of play is next on the 'play list' depending on some type of ongoing motivational filter or tally.

Why concern yourself? Ideally both sides of the flogger are fulfilling their needs doing whatever it is they are doing. They aren't or shouldn't, be expecting payment in one particular sexual favor or scene by facilitating another. Outside the physical, when someone is always wondering what another person "means" by a particular set of words and dwells on them to the point of distraction it is called 'paranoia'. It is counter constructive for a relationship.

If you find yourself questioning what is "between the lines" ask the person is right there with you. I believe there is no hidden motivation between beth and me. It is easy because I don't have one; and if I thought there was one I would ask her. In fact it is a running joke between us. We've both had our motivations questioned in past relationships when there was no hidden agenda. So we often say, "what do you mean by that!; just to reference how silly it was.

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Post #: 5

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 8:33:54 AM

phoenixinchains

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SV, respecting Your oppinion, but sometimes life for a sub/slave can be a matter of ; Dinner cooked = Happy D, dinner not cooked= Unhappy D. my view of adoration would be a display of thoughtful special affection. any action repeated day after day can become a thoughtless ordeal, and if it is mindless work for us, do You think it a clue and that we really care?
W/we are all people beyond the dynamics of D/s. and when pleasing another is how you've structured your life, showing love for that person you are constantly pleasing can be challenging. just some insight from the other side.- phoenix

(in reply to SottoVoce)

Post #: 6

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 8:57:15 AM

phoenixinchains

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    Mnb, my meaning was the world where groceries are shopped for and bills are paid, if that helps. i view my housework as a form of submission, but still call my Mate by His given name. (i call Him my Mate here cuz i'm still a bit leary of these whole net things.)i wear a collar 24/7. to some this all means one thing, to others it means another. i'd say real life is off the computer and out of the bed room. that's just me.
   if a sub did something very nice for their D, i wonder if the D chalks it off as the sub being a sub, or are there moments when a D thinks, "Wow, this person really gets me." the You beyond the D, the complete You.
   being married for near seven years, communication has occured where my displays of adoration have been wrote off, though i'll note this has really cleared up since coming upon the lifestyle. still i wonder if others have gone through such phases, or are unknowingly in such a phase.
   i wonder lots of things... phoenix

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Post #: 7

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 9:09:58 AM

SirDominic

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Agree with LA. As a relationship deepens and becomes more and more intimate, it becomes easier to read the difference. The thing to remember is to keep noticing. Once a Master starts taking what they have for granted, the writing is on the wall. In this sense a fetish relationship is no different than a vanilla one.

Seems to me that is closer to what you are really asking. Not that you have to try harder and harder to find ways to show your love, but rather that, at least at times, you feel taken for granted.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

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Post #: 8

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 9:24:18 AM

phoenixinchains

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SD, close and miles off. i am looking to see the scope of D/s relationships. once, the feeling of being taken for granted was an issue, since then it's been quite resolved. lol, and i worry alot about things that i shouldn't. but if my relationship could be tried in such a manor, i wondered if others are. and perhaps me asking this will get people thinking. and i like it when people start thinking.

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Post #: 9

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 10:55:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

i view my housework as a form of submission, but still call my Mate by His given name. (i call Him my Mate here cuz i'm still a bit leary of these whole net things.)i wear a collar 24/7.

What is his view? Do you have an agreed upon, collective "view"? Is your view of housework as submission a tool to keep a common dynamic goal in place? You use the term "Mate"; why not husband? It would take it out of the "whole net thing". I'm sure you are aware if your avoidance to sub/dom/slave/master is because they are "net things"; that is not the case. Those terms were just as prevalent, although much less debated, in the pre-internet "dark ages". Truth is, internet or up close and personal, they are meaningless out of the referencing relationship context. Even then they are not good references. Similar to snowflakes, no two slaves are alike.

quote:

being married for near seven years, communication has occurred where my displays of adoration have been wrote off, though i'll note this has really cleared up since coming upon the lifestyle.

Assuming your profile is accurate, you were married at 16. Not doubting your maturity or experience, perhaps the issue is one of comparison. You may have the perfect, ideal, dynamic and, based upon the assumption that this is your first marriage and/or longest intimate relationship, don't know it.

How did the "wrote off" become "cleared up" through the lifestyle? Did you have an epiphany because you saw examples of unflinching adoration not requiring reciprocity and since these people are frequently identified as 'submissive' you identified with them? The same occurs on the dominant side of the flogger. There are many Doms who adore, worship, and serve their submissive play partner who do not have those feeling returned. They may not be so quick to acknowledge that fact as would a submissive because they feel it inappropriate to mention. Doing so, may reflect poorly on their "natural" dominance.

Good luck and congratulations to your seven year marriage!

(in reply to phoenixinchains)

Post #: 10

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 12:08:44 PM

earthycouple

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I have been with my husband (he's vanilla) for almost 6 years now and we constantly do things back and forth. I wash dishes, he cooks, I sweep, he mows....whatever. Do we spend excessive amounts of time fawning over those things? No. Why? Because he and I appreciate each other. We spend time every so often saying "I love you" and "I appreciate you" and other things that come to us. This happens at very random times; before bed, during commercials, on the way to the grocery store, etc. Almost never in the "throes of passion" or when one has done some random chore.

My love and appreciation of my slave and his for me is no different. If he spends the next 30 years mopping the floor I know he's doing this for his family, because it needs to be done, and because I don't like to do it. I never question his motives because we live real life day to day.

I know that when it comes down to it, when he mops today it may be simply because the UM spilled juice and he's damn well sick and tired of sticking when he walks across the floor. Next week he does it because I've said "Robert please mop for me today" and sometime next month he may do it for some other random reason.

The point is...I love him for his want to serve me unconditionally. If I feel I need to spend my time questioning his motives for anything then I need to release him. Just like if I feel I need to question the motives of my husband we need to part ways.

Now as for fulfilling his need to serve....If Robert can not get this need fulfilled with me then I am doing something wrong. I know his needs and he knows mine. As our needs evolve we continue to learn with each other.

As for his adoration of me...well...he wouldn't be here if I wasn't worthy of his adoration. I don't need a clean house to prove that. His smile is enough.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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Post #: 11

RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 6:39:20 PM

Kinkypupper

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From: Portland oregon
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yes it is at times hard to determine.

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RE: reading between the lines - 5/29/2007 10:36:03 PM

Elorin

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From: San Antonio, TX
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I haven't ever had a full time live in sub so I can't say as a Top, but as a bottom, Sir is pretty good about noticing when I'm serving out of obedience and when I'm making a special effort out of adoration. I'm lucky that way.

I will say that I rarely wash the dishes, take out the trash, or fold the laundry out of adoration. I frequently do cock worship, body massage, foot worship, or provide a footstool of my back out of adoration.

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Post #: 13

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 6:31:12 AM

crouchingtigress

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From: Maui
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you sound as though you are needing something you are not getting in your relationship....

why not just ask for it?

i personally think it would be less time consuming and more productive then to try to define your dynamic by comparing external definitions....

in essence you are devaluing your need (ie yourself) by trying to lump it in a box with a lable on it that reads : "generally accepted master behavior" or "generally accepted slave behavior". be careful doing that sort of thing.

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"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

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Post #: 14

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:34:57 AM

Celeste43

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I don't expect him to be able to read my mind. He just likes that I do thoughtful things for him. And vice versa.

On those occasions when I am suddenly filled with a rush of overwhelming love, I tell him. He tells me when he's filled with sudden appreciation of having me in his life also.

But I don't think he could tell the difference in the bedroom either. He's focused on different things there.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 15

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:16:08 PM

phoenixinchains

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

[What is his view? Do you have an agreed upon, collective "view"? Is your view of housework as submission a tool to keep a common dynamic goal in place? You use the term "Mate"; why not husband? It would take it out of the "whole net thing". I'm sure you are aware if your avoidance to sub/dom/slave/master is because they are "net things"; that is not the case. Those terms were just as prevalent, although much less debated, in the pre-internet "dark ages". Truth is, internet or up close and personal, they are meaningless out of the referencing relationship context. Even then they are not good references. Similar to snowflyakes, no two slaves are alike.
His view on all mentioned, "wow, she's talking to people!" well, He is the aggressive alpha type ever since we met. BDSM wasn't a big part of our relationship in the beginning, but in retro-spect, the foundation was there. He'll use His name, but i still am a little fearful of hackers and the like.

How did the "wrote off" become "cleared up" through the lifestyle? i am not always great at "saying" what's on my mind. so one day, i found out that "talking" goes a long ways as my Mate isn't a mind-reader. the lifestyle re-affirms the theme of fluid communication. Did you have an epiphany because you saw examples of unflinching adoration not requiring reciprocity and since these people are frequently identified as 'submissive' you identified with them? no, i wondered if other submissives out there were making my mistake. lol, to me, washing dishes says," i love you," because i hate washing dishes. but somehow the message wan't quite getting through. The same occurs on the dominant side of the flogger. There are many Doms who adore, worship, and serve their submissive play partner who do not have those feeling returned. They may not be so quick to acknowledge that fact as would a submissive because they feel it inappropriate to mention. Doing so, may reflect poorly on their "natural" dominance.that would be sad.

Good luck and congratulations to your seven year marriage!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 16

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:21:33 PM

phoenixinchains

Posts: 2534
Joined: 4/5/2007
From: i live here
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Assuming your profile is accurate, you were married at 16. correct, but i've avoided saying that as i don't know if that's against the rules.Not doubting your maturity or experience, perhaps the issue is one of comparison. You may have the perfect, ideal, dynamic and, based upon the assumption that this is your first marriage and/or longest intimate relationship, don't know it. i couldn't imagine any other match that i am better suited to. i'll say "ideal" as little is perfect in the world, but W/we are so matched to the other.

Good luck and congratulations to your seven year marriage!
thank Y/you, and best wishes to Y/y'all

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 17

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:25:53 PM

Trampler

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*looks around in confusion* real life? what the fucks that?! (sorry phoenix for hijacking.)

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Post #: 18

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:31:07 PM

Lordandmaster

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Isn't that like asking whether I eat because I'm hungry or because my body is signaling to me that it needs nourishment?

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixinchains

but in real life, is it hard to see when Your sub/slave does something out of adoration and isn't just fulfilling their own need to serve?

(in reply to phoenixinchains)

Post #: 19

RE: reading between the lines - 5/30/2007 9:45:24 PM

phoenixinchains

Posts: 2534
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To A/all,
            Okay, I have spent a good portion of my life married. In seven years, two people will work through a lot of problems. I reviewed the most serious of my past problems and wondered if other submissives had ever coursed the path. So then I wondered if all the Tops/Dom/mes/Masters/Mistresses out there were aware of what their counterparts might be doing, if if the sub/ slaves wasn't aware.
            Over time, I have learned to express my needs, but this took a long time, and I might add, a lot of patients on my Mate's part. Thankfully, he has lots of that. I reasoned that since a token mark of submission is service to others, conserns reguarding self might be a common pit-fall to subs/ slaves.
             But I am glad to see that many have worked through this issue, if they ever faced it. I am human, I wonder.
             Thanks again to all,
                                         Phoenix


_____________________________

OWNED BY CHAOSFORGE.
purrfectly happy slave of Chaosforge.

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