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RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:35:21 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
"I'm not kidding."


Look! She said it! She's serious now!

I am kidding about her not kidding because otherwise that would be not kidding and I am getting dizzy trying to follow the logic in this sentence. ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:38:07 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
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From: P'burgh PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

By the way..it's possible to be an ethical but evil genius as well.


The type of evil which one might associate with you is completely different from the type of evil I had in mind in my reference to evil genius.

To be an ethical, evil genius with respect to devising imaginative ways for sadism is entirely admirable ;-)

Cheers,

Sea


May I remind you of....subbie Olympic Games??? Now is that evil genius or what?

I apologize for the hijack..or possibly a low jack.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
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RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:42:14 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

So what do you all think of this kind of thing?


If the customers feel they're getting satisfaction, does it really matter which stranger is providing it? Sounds impressively entrepreneurial!


Yup, I see your point, which is what makes it grey. I wonder why she doesn't simply teach and train the women to also do the speaking part? Aside from removing any question about it being shady, I expect it would help with the bottleneck that must otherwise arise.

I suppose a reason to not train the girls is to be able to take a greater cut, and to keep them dependent on her versus seeing them go off on their own and become competition.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:45:25 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck
May I remind you of....subbie Olympic Games??? Now is that evil genius or what?


That's like Stephen Hawking evil genius!

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:47:42 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

So what do you all think of this kind of thing?


If the customers feel they're getting satisfaction, does it really matter which stranger is providing it? Sounds impressively entrepreneurial!


Yup, I see your point, which is what makes it grey. I wonder why she doesn't simply teach and train the women to also do the speaking part? Aside from removing any question about it being shady, I expect it would help with the bottleneck that must otherwise arise.


I'm trying to remember exactly how she explained it to me. Maybe instead of webcam its only photos? I'm really not sure. I know that she trained the girls in how to go through the motions of a scene but that she was still the voice. Maybe one scene takes place where the girl is being the dom and it's on webcam and other guys pay to log in and watch but can also talk to the supposed dom who's doing the scene though since her back would likely be towards them they can't tell it's not her talking? I don't know, it's complicated I guess. Then again, maybe she has still photos and video without sound of these different girls and all the customer has to do is call in and choose which mistress he wants to speak with and she plays the part but there is no further video or photos. Ah, who knows. All in all it seems like someone's being exploited.

_____________________________

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- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:51:16 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I went out tonight so am late in this thread but I will also state that I don't support this tactic.  Usually when I deal with the fakes it's one person.  I don't deal with 50 of them...well I don't think so.  So I was slightly impressed at how such a thing could be done just as I would be impressed by oh say an elaborate bank robbery a la Ocean's 11.  But I don't condone it nor do I think it right.

_____________________________

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~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

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RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:53:32 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
... The men go wild. I've got the german girl, swedish, russian, british...all of them young, beautiful, I give them a cut of the money."

It still took me a minute to figure things out but she finally made it painstakingly clear. This original mistress, who was really nothing special herself (or at least she thought not) bought the faces and bodies of other girls to use for her own purposes. She later explained that she would do the voices, quite a character actress she was, I guess, while the girls would perform the acts on the webcam for men who believed they were actually talking to the voice of the body they saw.  Pretty brilliant actually...one woman, 50 different mistresses, hundreds of men paying? 

So what do you all think of this kind of thing?


I think it just further builds the case that if a man is willing to pay to have his kinks sated, he may as well just pay a real-life Pro-Domme, or hooker-with-a-whip (whatever his particular kink may be) for a real-life session. 

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:54:11 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I feel terribly amoral (which is funny, given what a church lady I usually am), but I just can't get worked up over this. If the customers feel they're getting their money's worth, and the various assistants find their wages acceptable, I don't see who's really being exploited. The whole situation is in the realm of fantasy anyway.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Joke's on them - 5/29/2007 9:57:53 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston
So I was slightly impressed at how such a thing could be done just as I would be impressed by oh say an elaborate bank robbery a la Ocean's 11. 


Now that's a great analogy! And how can you not support the bad guys with a cast like that? ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 1:34:12 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		i dont see this as much different from someone running a "Sex chat" phone company. Anyone with a brain ( thats my get out clause ) Knows that the models in the adds wont be who you are talking to. As long as the young girls are adult, and not coerced into doing what they do, then i think its okay. The guys are prepared to phone up and pay cash to get their kicks. The older lady is making cash for her ability to run the show. The girls are happy to do what they do, in a safe enviroment and able earn some wages.
Yes its a scam but one everyone is aware of from the start. Far less painful than someone using your emotions to obtain money.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 5:21:22 AM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I do not expect everyone who reads this thread to see this matter the same way I do . The above is my reasoning for why I see it as I do.


That makes sense to me. My gut reaction was that what she was doing was reprehensible, and that in a perfect world, "the community" would work to police itself of people like that who are using deception to exploit people's desires. On the other hand, if what she is selling through her website is fantasy fulfillment, then in practical terms is there really a difference if or how she uses her staff/cast of characters, as long as the fantasy is still brought to life for the consumer? Definitely a gray area.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 5:41:28 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		This isn't new in many industries.  I am friends with a Phone Sex Operator and she buys pictures (and the rights to said pictures).  She says only two or three men have put together and approached her about not being the person in the pictures.  She's not as attractive, by American Weights and Standards measures, as the photo's she uses, but she isn't incapable of enticing a man with her looks.... She has almost all of her teeth. 

In the vanilla world, this is done with outsourced labor ALL the time.  Many tech-support companies outsource to India, where a guy will pick up the phone and sound like Apu from The Simpsons, but say his name is 'Hank'

(A guy names Hank voices Apu =P)
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000279/

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 6:48:14 AM   
MistressTaboo


Posts: 147
Joined: 6/10/2005
Status: offline 		Two words for those of us old enough to remember:

Blues Traveler...


_____________________________

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(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 7:19:31 AM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline
quote:


In the vanilla world, this is done with outsourced labor ALL the time.  Many tech-support companies outsource to India, where a guy will pick up the phone and sound like Apu from The Simpsons, but say his name is 'Hank'


I've always hated that! I know the reasoning behind it but still, I'd much rather him answer claiming to be Sanjay Gupta than "Bob." I just want to say "Look, I know you're name isn't Bob, so as long as we're going to be on the phone for 3 hours troubleshooting your company's crappy product, I might as well call you by your real name." 

Of course I don't.  But what does this say about America? Are we so closed minded to other cultures that we'd be offended if someone without a wholesome whitebread name answered our calls? Or is it just that the corporate pigs think we would be? 


_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 7:28:56 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes its a scam but one everyone is aware of from the start. Far less painful than someone using your emotions to obtain money.



I agree with you that there are more painful scams and greater evils. This issue itself is a minor one but it provides a basis for a philosophical discussion to consider ideas that apply at a more general level.

The question I am focusing on is not how big of a scam it is and whether others do it, but whether it is a scam. If everyone is aware from the start, then I don't think it is a scam. I am not convinced that premise--that everyone is aware from the start--holds universally true. I expect she probably tries to hide that the body is not the same as the voice.

I am not convinced by the argument that as long as a person doesn't know that that would bother him, it is fine. Under that argument, the two examples I give in my post above--a man pretending to be a woman in a text medium, and a person using a false photo for an online relationship--become acceptable. Under that argument, it is fine for a restaurant to falsely claim they use vegan products or kosher products and serve customers who visit them for this reason. Under that argument, it is fine for one spouse to cheat on another so long as the other does not find out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave
On the other hand, if what she is selling through her website is fantasy fulfillment, then in practical terms is there really a difference if or how she uses her staff/cast of characters, as long as the fantasy is still brought to life for the consumer? Definitely a gray area.


I agree and wrestled with this perspective myself. Through the course of this discussion and reflection, I have to come to lean more towards the scam side. There are adjustments that could make this more benign: rather than a voice over, training the girls, or indicating that staff that responds may not be the same as in the photo.

I think this matter is of small practical importance in the big picture but one that is more relevant towards a cerebral exercise via a philosophical discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
a guy will pick up the phone and sound like Apu from The Simpsons, but say his name is 'Hank'

(A guy names Hank voices Apu =P)
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000279/




In my opinion, if the guy is saying his name is Hank in attempt to make the caller think the call center is based in New York, then yes, it is misleading. If the guy is using an alias of Hank because his name is one that is uncommon and hard to remember or say, then it is not misleading. Because of the accent, and now with greater awareness about outsourced call centers, I think the second scenario is more likely.

As I type this, I see that this point about general awareness ties back to the comment made by PoliteSub53. To the extent the consumers in the industry in question know that the person with whom they speak is not whom they see in the photos (and it does not matter to them), the issue becomes more acceptable. I do not know to what extent this general awareness holds. I do know a young woman who does phone sex with and without cam. I am of the impression that a conversation with the actual person is common enough to question the notion of general awareness that staff on the phone is different from who is photographed--I am unsure.

My two cents.

Cheers,

Sea


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 7:59:33 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

quote:


In the vanilla world, this is done with outsourced labor ALL the time.  Many tech-support companies outsource to India, where a guy will pick up the phone and sound like Apu from The Simpsons, but say his name is 'Hank'


I've always hated that! I know the reasoning behind it but still, I'd much rather him answer claiming to be Sanjay Gupta than "Bob." I just want to say "Look, I know you're name isn't Bob, so as long as we're going to be on the phone for 3 hours troubleshooting your company's crappy product, I might as well call you by your real name." 

Of course I don't.  But what does this say about America? Are we so closed minded to other cultures that we'd be offended if someone without a wholesome whitebread name answered our calls? Or is it just that the corporate pigs think we would be? 



I've heard that whenever you call tech support it's not the person's real name, regardless of if they actually have a whitebread or ethnic name. I don't know if it's true, but a show debunking urban myths cited that as a reason an urban myth wasn't true. The one where a man killed a bad tech support worker by sending flowers to "Susan" at the office and then waiting in the parking lot to see which woman walked out with flowers.

Personally, I wouldn't care who the person is on the other end of the sex phone line. Can't say I really think it's a scam. It's not like you are paying them to talk about reality, after all. You are buying a fantasy.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 9:29:51 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Personally, I wouldn't care who the person is on the other end of the sex phone line. Can't say I really think it's a scam. It's not like you are paying them to talk about reality, after all. You are buying a fantasy.


Perhaps that is another point that brings different responses. To me, it would matter who is on the other end and I can understand why it would not matter to some.

I think another point that might create different perspectives is where the focus lies. When the focus lies on the outcome (what the customers are receiving) it seems to not be a scam. I lay my focus on the intention (whether the business is trying to hide something from or mislead the customers) and to the extent the intention is to deceive, I see it to be a scam.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 9:34:53 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		I don't get how this works.  How would someone believe the voices and words match up with the women on cam, if it's live?  Especially in the context of sucking, fucking, slurping, and then having bits and pieces of conversation?

I've paid guys via services to submit on cam (www.flirt4free.com); the ones that do voice, also, it's impossible, in my opinion, to fake who is talking. 

Just curious how she did it.

Akasha


_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 9:59:00 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

But what does this say about America? Are we so closed minded to other cultures that we'd be offended if someone without a wholesome whitebread name answered our calls? Or is it just that the corporate pigs think we would be? 


Hmm... do we really want to get onto America, other cultures, and corporate pigs in this forum? Probably not... but I just couldn't resist riding on the wings of your potential hi-jack:

I don't know the answer to your questions. However, if any  "corporate pigs" are reading this, I think it's bad enough that you're willing to sell out the American people by outsourcing these jobs elsewhere.

But since there's nothing I can do about this, and sometimes have to deal with outsourced telecommunications; let it be known that I don't give a rat's ass what color, culture, creed, or name of the person I'm dealing with is... as long as I can understand WTF they're saying!

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Joke's on them - 5/30/2007 10:09:40 AM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		All I can say is " you never know who or what you are talking to online".  Real time meetings give you a glimmer of what is ....but even that takes time to KNOW if the person you are talking to is really who and what they say they are.

Now haveing said that, I must say that once in a while the discovery is a part of the adventure and great fun!

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 40
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