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RE: Agruing - 6/2/2007 4:38:45 PM

ennaozzie

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I ment what your thoughts are on the xtreamests and then argue their point, which i dont think many agree with in my mind they have to be brain washed, but see if you can dig up something in that mind of yours, that would be for their view. hehehe

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RE: Agruing - 6/2/2007 5:48:36 PM

MarkC

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NeedToUseYou - I do enjoy it, and your welcome to continue if you enjoy it as well.
From my point of view I'm not changing the paremters of the question. From my point of view the conversation goes something like this.

Need "This house must have been built by someone because it's complex, so there must of been a guy who left his house to come build this house"
Mark "Wait, he left his house to build this house? Who built THAT house? If house building is so tough where who made the house for THIS guy?"
Need "I don't know but I know this house was built by someone because it's complex, and your changing the question now."
Mark "What? This is about proving that a house must be built by someone. You want me to just accept there was another house first before this one was built so you can prove your point?"
Need "Ya because that doesn't matter."
Mark "How can it not matter? We are discussion house building."
Need "Your just being difficult."

Ok I made up that last part. :P

Grisworld
YOU fuck!!!! ! See mine was better. :)

ennaozzie - To show her an extremist view on the world. (From thier point of view)
Life has taught me not to be subtle. Saying a nice speech doesn't make burn marks go away. They still hurt, and they stay with you for the rest of your mortal life. I am amazed by all these people who believe that the little they do for their god is enough. They go to church on sunday and believe that is enough to eternal bliss. Where is their cross to bear? Where is their sacrifice? Do you honestly believe God forced his own son to be cruified, yet all you have to do believe in him and all with be ok? Not to mention all the things you do AGAINST God. I feel sorry for you, the afterlife will be hard on you. You have sacrificed nothing for god and thats exactly what his going to give you in return. . . nothing. Don't be surprised if you burn in hell for all eternity, I warned you. Really is your soul only worth a halfass attempt?

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RE: Agruing - 6/2/2007 6:54:36 PM

ennaozzie

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MarkC

Tell me how hard is it to debate a point of view that is not yours?

beanie

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RE: Agruing - 6/3/2007 11:36:07 AM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkC

NeedToUseYou - I do enjoy it, and your welcome to continue if you enjoy it as well.
From my point of view I'm not changing the paremters of the question. From my point of view the conversation goes something like this.

Need "This house must have been built by someone because it's complex, so there must of been a guy who left his house to come build this house"
Mark "Wait, he left his house to build this house? Who built THAT house? If house building is so tough where who made the house for THIS guy?"
Need "I don't know but I know this house was built by someone because it's complex, and your changing the question now."
Mark "What? This is about proving that a house must be built by someone. You want me to just accept there was another house first before this one was built so you can prove your point?"
Need "Ya because that doesn't matter."
Mark "How can it not matter? We are discussion house building."
Need "Your just being difficult."

Ah, see the universe is complex, but that was never the basis of my argument, the basis of the argument, was that the basic constants of the universe are set to values, that indicate a non-random selection. The complexity isn't part of my argument. I think that is where we diverge.

My argument is basicly why is gravity the value that it is, when it could have been any number of other values. This doesn't really have to do with the complexity of the universe. It's a simple numeric value. Same with the nuclear forces. Those simple values could have been any number of constants, not necessarily those they are. But as I mentioned in my first post if those constants weren't set within a narrow field then the universe just wouldn't function in the way we know it. So, that implies some kind of intelligence. Actually we have knowledge of these numbers, just not the knowledge to place them in effect. But the numbers I'm speaking of are simple enough.

That was one part,

The other part was where did it come from.

Neither involves complexity as a prerequisite though for proving the involvement of an intelligent being.

My whole argument actually is based around the first millionths of a second. Before it was complex. As in what caused it to explode, and what caused the constants we take for granted to be as they are. I can probably find the documentary on that, in which some physicists say that the constants that govern the universe are so precisely placed as to infer some intelligence. This isn't entirely my own argument.

The one point you have to grasp is that gravity doesn't have to be as strong or as weak as it is, it could be different, and that applies to all the forces, and all the forces are set just right to allow the forming of stars planets, galaxies, etc...

If those values were different the universe would still be complex though, effectively useless for any life we've conceived of. Unless life can evolve in black holes, or from loose particles drifting in space that is.

I'm probably done though with the argument, as I've nothing more to add, it's pretty straight foward argument though, if you had a control panel with 15 dials for example, and all those dials had to be set within a narrow range of values for a useful outcome, and they were, I think it would be a rational assumption to think someone set those values.

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RE: Agruing - 6/3/2007 8:23:35 PM

MarkC

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ennaozzie
It's coming back, dad use to make me argue some off the wall crap. It taught me to think of the ways behind what people do. Which is really all a debate or arguement is about. The why may not always seem valid to us (like with crazy people) but from my experience there is a why behind everything that we do. Also it's easier for me to understand myself if I can understand someone who has a simaliar reaction or attitude to things. So I guess I've used the ablity for introspection also. The more difficult arguements are the ones you have alot of difficulty understanding. Serial killers would prolly be one of those normally but I enjoy "Criminal Minds" alot. hehe I've also found the more I do it the more I can do.

NeedToUseYou
Hmm ok take everything I said before and put "constants" in there instead. I'm not going to debate the chances of something happening and that god must have had a hand. I've worked on a craps table for 15 years. I've seen four 12's in a row. The odds of that hitting are 36 to the 4th power. Never underestimate the power of dumb blind luck. But you seem to want to assume that high odds means there was divine intervention. Any poker player will tell you that just because you have HUGE odds in your favor doesn't mean you are going to win. The other guy may be sitting on 7/J suited and got the straight flush on the river to beat your 4 of a kind. So I decided not to go with that arguement but argue the hole basic premis of constants/universe being created. Because to put it as simply as possible it's just as hard to make a god as it is to make a universe. Why can't whatever made god have made the universe? Every question you can put agaisnt the universe is the same question against god. Where did god/constants come from? How could god/constants came into existence against such long odds? And I didn't even go into the arguement that a huge black hole had sucked up the universe, collapsed on itself and spit one back out! Who's to say the constants/universe isn't infinate or eternal? There are alot of ways that I could have argued against your point, but none of them get to the real issue. When you answer where the universe come from with god. The next question that comes from you lips should be "Ok well then where did God come from?". Sadly no one asks that question, they all believe him eternal with easy, but can't FATHOM that the universe/constants are eternal. Let me tell you this, and think on it awhile. If you roll the dice 10,000 times. The odds of getting whatever combination you come up with are INSANE. (36 to the 10,000th power) You don't belive there was divine intervention on a craps table? Yet it's only 1 in a trillion chance of happening. (I'm just guessing it's prolly actually higher than that)

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RE: Agruing - 6/3/2007 8:31:08 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Have you ever met anyone who has been raped online?

I do, I do! Just last year there was a submissive who was telling anyone who would listen about her violent gang rape. Everyone was rushing to her to comfort her....only to find out later that the whole thing happened in a chat room. She was on the brink of being suicidal over it. She wanted to know how to go about prosecuting her "attackers" and was even worried that she might have become pregnant as a result of the "assault".

Momentary hijack....I once savagely raped a woman online....And unfortunately she did become pregnant....The D.A. chose not to prosecute the case...and 9 months later she gave birth to my iPod.

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RE: Agruing - 6/3/2007 8:33:37 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Have you ever met anyone who has been raped online?

I do, I do! Just last year there was a submissive who was telling anyone who would listen about her violent gang rape. Everyone was rushing to her to comfort her....only to find out later that the whole thing happened in a chat room. She was on the brink of being suicidal over it. She wanted to know how to go about prosecuting her "attackers" and was even worried that she might have become pregnant as a result of the "assault".

Momentary hijack....I once savagely raped a woman online....And unfortunately she did become pregnant....The D.A. chose not to prosecute the case...and 9 months later she gave birth to my iPod.

That answers the question of whether you run Windoze on the DomiDong or not.

Sinergy

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