Semantics or Mother Nature's Design?

Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (Full Version)

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BoyLover -> Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 12:43:21 PM)
This is a message I sent to someone in response to his. I wanted to post it to open discussion and get opinions/feedback on what I wrote. I don't understand why I'm supposed to accept negative sexual behavior (wanting to be sexually humiliated/abused). I also think a lot of our feelings about sexual subservience comes from the physical way in which men and women have sex. How can that be turned into something dominant and submissive? And if we do turn it into D/s, isn't it frought with so much bullshit as to render it irrelevant? sigh I don't think I'll ever find sexual peace. Start of message: Thanks for your "canned" message--one that u send to all the girls? We've been in contact before. It's so great how the subs on here are so important to u that u take the time to remember the ones who rejected you (yes, read that with sarcasm). Are u a switch or what? Your profile is all about your cock penetrations into your slut's holes. No, I don't want to explore all the sick, twisted fantasies in my head--I don't think I should learn to accept the need to be humiliated and used and abused by men. I want to deny that part of myself as long as I can, and continue to get off on it in private, with porn. Why should anybody accept that she's a pathetic cunt who's playing into the age-old stereotypes about womens' "place"? You know, our bodies are shaped so that women "take" cock and men "give" cock. That's just how mother nature designed it. It's strange to me that ppl in BDSM use that "body positioning" as a form of humiliation or subservience. Listen, guy, it's easier for me to suck your cock while on my knees; doesn't mean I'm "below" you! Lying on my back or stomach or doggy position is a way for me to "get off" cuz it hits my clit best, or I can play with my clit; not so u can feel like some dominant animal "taking control". You want real control and power? Go rape someone! That's where this shit lies; in the real life part of it. Ppl try to capture that with consent games. Pretend all u want---it'll never be as good as the real thing, which only psychopaths will truly pursue.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 12:48:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover This is a message I sent to someone in response to his. I think your response was a typical snarky stab at someone who doesn't care. People will expect a lot of things of you, people will tell you that you are not who you are because of what you do, that you must be who they say you are. So what? People can and will take whatever they want and manipulate the data to fit whatever conclusion they want. You COULD sex hetero sex as if the female is the gatekeeper, and thus keeper of all life to be respected and courted, the final judge of life above all males. But you could see it as a passive hole just aching to be filled and brought to life by the vitality of the male. Same act- different perspectives. As always- do what works for you, and leave the rest.

mstrjx -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 12:55:52 PM)
Geez. Where to start? You're not wrong. Then again, you're not right. Even if in this situation one can construe 'right' from 'wrong', it just doesn't apply. It would seem as if you received a message from a dominant man. Considering your profile identifies you as 'switch', one wouldn't have to read your profile to believe that you 'might' be interested. Of course, actually reading your profile would show that you are interested in young male submissives, or female dominants (or 'possibly' submissives). So he's not your ideal mate. No reason he should have written; no reason for you to respond as you did. Based on countless threads, men don't read profiles, they just send requests. Fine. Based on experience I have in actually reading profiles, some women 'claim' (perhaps not in so many worlds) that they would prefer not to get 'nice' emails. So, men take the chance of harrassing you on the off chance that is what you would respond to. If I would respond to an ad such as that the way I do, I wouldn't get anywhere. Move on. Next! (You haven't forgotten this episode yet? WHY?) Jeff

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 12:56:36 PM)
Yes, it was a snarky reply. And you're right. Why should I care? Well I do cause the way I judge others is a complete reflection on the way I feel about myself, which isn't very great, especially when it comes to sex. It is perspective; thanks for making me remember that. I recall in university how women's studies taught me that feminism is subjective--just cause a Western woman would feel demeaned in a burka, doesn't mean the Muslim woman does.

CuriousLord -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 12:57:07 PM)
Your typing and grammar are below that of the ideas you're convaying. (No, this is not an insult; I'm saying that this post appears to be more shallow at first glance.) First and foremost, I must commend you on this free thought. I suppose you're more prone to it, apparently being novice in this community. This community, largely, acts. We wear customes, we play parts. Many dynamics (relationships) are based around predetermined guidelines, a "Dom" often telling a "sub" to do something he already knows she wants- his saying it is simply a formality. The argument of such this part of a community seems strongest at the points of, "roleplaying is best in the absense of the real thing", and "while roleplaying diminishes the exotic positive aspects, it also takes away the exotic negative aspects, causing a net gain over vanilla". Of course, there is a subcommunity in which Dom's/Master's truly act on their own, and their sub/slaves are acting out of submission as opposed to predecided and agreed upon actions. I am a member of such a community. It is prone to attacks from even within the larger community, let alone those outside it. In the end, the best manner in which I may address your concerns is simply that people have different goals and values. Some will, my friend, be fulfilled in taking on true D/s. Some will find their fix in the roleplaying. And many will be content to wash their hands of this. If it is not for you, then it's simply that. This lifestyle, being based on the extreme desires of some in particular areas, is not for everyone, nor should it have been.

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 1:20:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Of course, there is a subcommunity in which Dom's/Master's truly act on their own, and their sub/slaves are acting out of submission as opposed to predecided and agreed upon actions. I am a member of such a community. It is prone to attacks from even within the larger community, let alone those outside it. In the end, the best manner in which I may address your concerns is simply that people have different goals and values. Some will, my friend, be fulfilled in taking on true D/s. Some will find their fix in the roleplaying. And many will be content to wash their hands of this. If it is not for you, then it's simply that. This lifestyle, being based on the extreme desires of some in particular areas, is not for everyone, nor should it have been. I don't see how your "subcommunity" and the other community differ. Giving consent is giving consent, whether ones knows what lines they should say or not. Are u telling me that u go around raping and abusing ppl? I think not. So what if u told ur sub what to expect? She still gave her consent for u to "do what u please." It's ALL submission; I don't agree with the line you want to draw. I met a sub on here who followed your way, I guess. She called it RISK playing, or something. She does whatever her "master" tells her to do (prostitutes once a week, fucked a dog 3 times, let him shit in her mouth, and she convinced her sister to fuck him in front of her). The first thing I asked her was if she hated herself. She said yes; she knew what she was getting into, she CHOSE him after hearing about his reputation from the community; her last relationship "broke" her heart and she felt she "deserved" what he wanted to do. I don't think all subs feel this way, but I'd bet that the majority do. I wish I could walk away, but I can't. I crave abuse and humiliation more than food. That's what my ex-stepdad did to me; he never fucked me but he was extremely controlling and loved showing his dick around the house, as well as acting extremely inappropriate with me a few times from 12-18. My masturbatory fantasies were based around him abusing and humiliating me; the thing is, I always felt dirty getting pleasure from it (the orgasm). So I went thru life dominating men out of hate. I don't hate them anymore but I can't cum unless I imagine myself being tortured; or imagine/watch (in porn) other woman being abused. Sorry for getting off my original topic but I think I used that as an excuse to get on the forums and ask for....advice. I'm so fucked up about this shit. This is my second time on CM.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 1:34:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Of course, there is a subcommunity in which Dom's/Master's truly act on their own, and their sub/slaves are acting out of submission as opposed to predecided and agreed upon actions. I am a member of such a community. It is prone to attacks from even within the larger community, let alone those outside it. In the end, the best manner in which I may address your concerns is simply that people have different goals and values. Some will, my friend, be fulfilled in taking on true D/s. Some will find their fix in the roleplaying. And many will be content to wash their hands of this. If it is not for you, then it's simply that. This lifestyle, being based on the extreme desires of some in particular areas, is not for everyone, nor should it have been. I don't see how your "subcommunity" and the other community differ. Giving consent is giving consent, whether ones knows what lines they should say or not. Are u telling me that u go around raping and abusing ppl? I think not. So what if u told ur sub what to expect? She still gave her consent for u to "do what u please." It's ALL submission; I don't agree with the line you want to draw. I met a sub on here who followed your way, I guess. She called it RISK playing, or something. She does whatever her "master" tells her to do (prostitutes once a week, fucked a dog 3 times, let him shit in her mouth, and she convinced her sister to fuck him in front of her). The first thing I asked her was if she hated herself. She said yes; she knew what she was getting into, she CHOSE him after hearing about his reputation from the community; her last relationship "broke" her heart and she felt she "deserved" what he wanted to do. I don't think all subs feel this way, but I'd bet that the majority do. I wish I could walk away, but I can't. I crave abuse and humiliation more than food. That's what my ex-stepdad did to me; he never fucked me but he was extremely controlling and loved showing his dick around the house, as well as acting extremely inappropriate with me a few times from 12-18. My masturbatory fantasies were based around him abusing and humiliating me; the thing is, I always felt dirty getting pleasure from it (the orgasm). So I went thru life dominating men out of hate. I don't hate them anymore but I can't cum unless I imagine myself being tortured; or imagine/watch (in porn) other woman being abused. Sorry for getting off my original topic but I think I used that as an excuse to get on the forums and ask for....advice. I'm so fucked up about this shit. This is my second time on CM. You have already taken the first step. You recognize that you have a problem. I can't say clearly enough, GET TO A GOOD THERAPIST. If after dealing with all of these issues and horrible things that have happened in your past, which I am truly sorry you had to suffer through, when you feel like you are a valuable person, and you STILL make the choice to want to have the experiences that this lifestyle offers, then come back and enjoy your life. But honestly, even though I know that many submissives and slaves are here and stay here for similar reasons as you just stated, it really is a bad idea. An unhealthy idea. You will never heal your past by coming here and trying to relive it. I wish you a great deal of luck.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 1:48:53 PM)
Hello BoyLover. Don't take this too personnal, but I think you should give yourself some time off from "whatever". Take a break, try to find your sense of humor if it's possible for you? I'm trying to look for a question here...or is it rantin? You want approval, validation, what? If it matters really, in my opinion I do not think of "this" as being a class act (snarking at stupid "deletable" people). You should think about who "you" are hurting , yourself. I don't think "you" felt better after sending what you just showed us. It was not "snarky", it was "worst" than that. It was exactly what you think it is. Take a break, go smell the flowers, come back. RL.

CuriousLord -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 1:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover I don't see how your "subcommunity" and the other community differ. Giving consent is giving consent, whether ones knows what lines they should say or not. Are u telling me that u go around raping and abusing ppl? I think not. So what if u told ur sub what to expect? She still gave her consent for u to "do what u please." It's ALL submission; I don't agree with the line you want to draw. Some of us draw a line at doing what we believe our subs want, just we say it, for the superficial quality of verbally making the command. Others of us do as we want- without yielding to the will of our sub, just accepting her willingness to serve in any way. In the end, though, you are correct- a rapist is the most dominant. quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover I wish I could walk away, but I can't. I crave abuse and humiliation more than food. I knew a girl like you when I was younger. I took on a mentor position over her- she masturbated to me every night on the phone until a year or two later when I got it. I knew her family well enough, though.. she wasn't abused. I don't know why she was like that. Later, when playing with her, I found the idea of me punching her practically made her cum alone. She wanted the humilation and pain more than anything- and she utterly hated it. For a long time, we satisfied eachother, trying to keep it at that. But she grew to be happy with that arrangement- and she didn't like happy- so she tore it to shreds and made herself miserable again. In the end, it didn't work out well for her. She was still ill, and very miserable. I suppose that's what she wanted. I am sorry, but, should your condition be similar, I do not know how to help you outside of actually tying you up in a basement and making you enjoy it- and I'm not sure if that's even a good idea, as it may just be a very bad one. I agree with LafayetteLady to the idea of getting a therapist. I just don't know if it'll actually do the trick. But, best of wishes.

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:02:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady You have already taken the first step. You recognize that you have a problem. I can't say clearly enough, GET TO A GOOD THERAPIST. If after dealing with all of these issues and horrible things that have happened in your past, which I am truly sorry you had to suffer through, when you feel like you are a valuable person, and you STILL make the choice to want to have the experiences that this lifestyle offers, then come back and enjoy your life. But honestly, even though I know that many submissives and slaves are here and stay here for similar reasons as you just stated, it really is a bad idea. An unhealthy idea. You will never heal your past by coming here and trying to relive it. I wish you a great deal of luck. Thank you very much for your words. They ring so true that they brought tears to my eyes. I've been off-and-on in therapy since I was 13. I see a psychiatrist now and take meds. What if I never see myself as valuable? Should I stay away till then? I always thought that ppl shouldn't be in relationships till they loved themselves, but I've realized that for some ppl it may never come. Should we never be in a relationship? A girl I met on CM told me that I should embrace my desire for humiliation and accept that it gets me off, regardless of where it comes from because I can't change the past; it's a part of me now. I go thru periods of understanding submission then switch to hating it.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:07:59 PM)
[/quote] Sorry for getting off my original topic but I think I used that as an excuse to get on the forums and ask for....advice. I'm so fucked up about this shit. This is my second time on CM. [/quote] Hello again. My "advice" is to stop seeking "ambivalent" stimulation as you "seem" a little bit "obsessive" at this point. You may need counseling also, as it "seems" to me that you are a little "addicted" to your "desires". Maybe, maybe not...better to find out? Yes? RL.

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:15:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord I knew a girl like you when I was younger. I took on a mentor position over her- she masturbated to me every night on the phone until a year or two later when I got it. I knew her family well enough, though.. she wasn't abused. I don't know why she was like that. Later, when playing with her, I found the idea of me punching her practically made her cum alone. She wanted the humilation and pain more than anything- and she utterly hated it. For a long time, we satisfied eachother, trying to keep it at that. But she grew to be happy with that arrangement- and she didn't like happy- so she tore it to shreds and made herself miserable again. In the end, it didn't work out well for her. She was still ill, and very miserable. I suppose that's what she wanted. I am sorry, but, should your condition be similar, I do not know how to help you outside of actually tying you up in a basement and making you enjoy it- and I'm not sure if that's even a good idea, as it may just be a very bad one. I agree with LafayetteLady to the idea of getting a therapist. I just don't know if it'll actually do the trick. But, best of wishes. Wow, u made me cry more than LafayetteLady! I recognize myself in that girl you knew--it makes me feel even more hopeless than I did before: some ppl really do stay miserable forever. It is hard, tho, to enjoy something that your brain tells u is wrong to enjoy. At least I know why I hate it; doesn't make it any easier to accept tho. I still haven't heard one tip or piece of advice on how to accept humiliation as a positive form of sexual expression. The word is negative; no one should want to be made to feel like shit (even if it does make them cum).

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:18:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra Hello again. My "advice" is to stop seeking "ambivalent" stimulation as you "seem" a little bit "obsessive" at this point. You may need counseling also, as it "seems" to me that you are a little "addicted" to your "desires". Maybe, maybe not...better to find out? Yes? RL. How am I being obsessive? Addicted to my desires? And you and everyone else on this site isn't?

LafayetteLady -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:35:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover Thank you very much for your words. They ring so true that they brought tears to my eyes. I've been off-and-on in therapy since I was 13. I see a psychiatrist now and take meds. What if I never see myself as valuable? Should I stay away till then? I always thought that ppl shouldn't be in relationships till they loved themselves, but I've realized that for some ppl it may never come. Should we never be in a relationship? A girl I met on CM told me that I should embrace my desire for humiliation and accept that it gets me off, regardless of where it comes from because I can't change the past; it's a part of me now. I go thru periods of understanding submission then switch to hating it. The girl you met here on CM is WRONG WRONG WRONG! Did I mention she is wrong? Your past is part of who you are, there is no denying that. Sadly, some people never overcome their issues and learn to love themselves. The fact that you are able to reach out and able to worry about it is a pretty strong indictor that in time, you WILL feel better about yourself. The condition you are currently in will lead you to make VERY bad choices about partners in this lifestyle, potentially even fatal. There are far too many who you might meet when you weren't in the mood to be "snarky" and the situation could get entirely out of hand. I can't tell you how to accept humiliation as a postive part of self expression. As I seem to have been saying over and over, one needs to be very self-assured to be a submissive or slave. It is when you are able to separate that the things your partner is saying to you is not really WHO you are that it can become a more positive type of sexual expression. It seems as though you are not terribly happy with your current therapist. Some people will go through dozens before they find the one that works well for them, so don't be discouraged. If you feel you are not making progress with your therapist, find another one and repeat the process until you find the right one. You also need to focus on first figuring out WHY you feel so invaluable and trying to modify those feelings and learn that it is a big fat whopping load of bullshit because you ARE a valuable person. Forget about trying to find a way that humiliation is a positive form of self expression. Right now, the most important thing you need to do is some serious SELF examination. You will never progress if you keep seeking someone out to abuse you. I hope I have been of some help to you, and if you ever need to, feel free to email me.

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 2:43:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord] I knew a girl like you when I was younger. I took on a mentor position over her- she masturbated to me every night on the phone until a year or two later when I got it. I knew her family well enough, though.. she wasn't abused. I don't know why she was like that. I should of checked out your profile before I responded to you. Um, you're 20 years old. No offense but I can't really take your advice seriously. You're still at the self-centered age where the world kinda revolves around you and nothing bad will ever happen. I'm 35 and lived longer, with many more experiences. "When you were younger.."? So you were, like, 16 when u met this girl? How old was she? I'm sure when she hits 30 things will be a lot different. And of course you don't know how to help me---you haven't lived long enough to give me proper advice. I've met a lot of young "masters" on here. It's interesting how the majority of u like the Gorean lifestyle. (I won't even go there....) Did u know that a human's brain isn't even fully formed until they are 16 or 17?

softness -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 3:13:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover I should of checked out your profile before I responded to you. Um, you're 20 years old. No offense but I can't really take your advice seriously. You're still at the self-centered age where the world kinda revolves around you and nothing bad will ever happen. I'm 35 and lived longer, with many more experiences. "When you were younger.."? So you were, like, 16 when u met this girl? How old was she? I'm sure when she hits 30 things will be a lot different. And of course you don't know how to help me---you haven't lived long enough to give me proper advice. I've met a lot of young "masters" on here. It's interesting how the majority of u like the Gorean lifestyle. (I won't even go there....) Did u know that a human's brain isn't even fully formed until they are 16 or 17? I think that you need to be really careful when making comments like these. If this is the first time you have posted on CM then it is a shame you are reactig in such a volatile way, the people here have a lot of wisdom, ideas and experience to share with you I have enver been given a piece of advice that wasn't offered with the best of intention. Firstly, if you post on a thread looking for input from others then you should no then attack the people that reply to you, if you diagree with them, thats your take, but to attack them for daring to offer advice when the are younger than you, is simply closed minded. If its your lookout that people of 20 or so are unable to give you any advice about life ... then you are dismissing a valuable source. Granted you may have lived longer, granted you may have had a greater volume of experience, but as you have no knowledge what so ever as to the experience of the person you are talking to .. well .. I would always wait to know the person before you judge them on their date of birth. Also the dig about men not having their brains fully formed until late teens ... can you say MISANTHROPY? but then what would i know? ... i am at that age where i am totlly self centred, and nothing bad can happen ... must get back to my wild hedonistic no cares lifestyle now.

dawntreader -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 3:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoyLover I should of checked out your profile before I responded to you. Um, you're 20 years old. No offense but I can't really take your advice seriously. You're still at the self-centered age where the world kinda revolves around you and nothing bad will ever happen. I'm 35 and lived longer, with many more experiences. " One day i hope you realise what a crock of shit that statement is...

softness -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 3:20:20 PM)
dawn treader said it better than me ... must be because she is older and therefore able to give advice

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 3:22:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness I think that you need to be really careful when making comments like these. If this is the first time you have posted on CM then it is a shame you are reactig in such a volatile way, the people here have a lot of wisdom, ideas and experience to share with you I have enver been given a piece of advice that wasn't offered with the best of intention. Firstly, if you post on a thread looking for input from others then you should no then attack the people that reply to you, if you diagree with them, thats your take, but to attack them for daring to offer advice when the are younger than you, is simply closed minded. If its your lookout that people of 20 or so are unable to give you any advice about life ... then you are dismissing a valuable source. Granted you may have lived longer, granted you may have had a greater volume of experience, but as you have no knowledge what so ever as to the experience of the person you are talking to .. well .. I would always wait to know the person before you judge them on their date of birth. Also the dig about men not having their brains fully formed until late teens ... can you say MISANTHROPY? I didn't say MEN I said HUMANS. Humans' brains aren't fully formed until their late teens. I also don't think I was being volatile at all. It's my opinion about guys 20 and under whom I've met on this site. I don't see how I was attaking anyone. Forums are meant to express our opinions and mine is that a 20-year-old cannot give me good advice about being a master/mistress. I don't know why this bothers u so much. Perhaps it's because u are around the same age? It was also in response to the complete posting so I hope you didn't just read that part.

BoyLover -> RE: Semantics or Mother Nature's Design? (5/31/2007 3:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreaderO One day i hope you realise what a crock of shit that statement is... It was in response to the specific advice he gave me based on my original post, not to advice in general. It is not a grand statement of any kind directed at ALL PPL 20 and under. I hope one day you realize that there's always more to a story than what your eyes want to see.

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