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RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/2/2007 1:52:49 PM   
Tuomas


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Joined: 2/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Toumas:
Are you saying that capitalism and free market are the same thing?
Are you saying that a capitalist is entitled to ignore the law?
The cite seems to say that it is the larger capitalist  who is trying to crush a smaller capitalist and the government is siding with the larger capitalist.
thompson

Capitalism is usually a term applied to free-market.
I did not say or imply in any way that Capitalists are entitled to ignore the law. That's your own idea.
"Seems to", exactly. Just because they are businessmen, it doesn't mean they are "capitalists" in anyway. What I see is a group of companies trying to exploit a loophole in the legal system to supress someone else's rights. This falls in the category of facism, come to think of it...

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 3:41:02 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		The thing is, the tactic is anti-competition not because it's inaccurate about the company's product, but about the identical product from other companies. It prays on people's (understandible) ignorance of the process by implying other meats are unsafe. However, this is kind of premature to make that judgement, because the actual avertizement is not in question...

From the number of medical, keep fit and loose weight fast adverts that are on US TV this appears a double standard. Most advertising plays on the ignorance of the user.

Also if the concern already exists then it is not praying on ignorance to positively confirm that a risk is not inherent wihin your product. If that implies there is a risk in an alternative product then surely it is the competiions problem / decision to decide if their product need to be proof negative or not. They don't put a label on the beef saying it does not contain lead or does not have PCBs or other such contaminants.......

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 7:47:52 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

They don't put a label on the beef saying it does not contain lead or does not have PCBs or other such contaminants.......


Maybe they should.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 8:42:19 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas
-unless you are marketing to the paranoid section of the market who fear all "corporate greed" tactics.



Or marketing to those who just want their food to test clean.

If you'll wait for a sexual partner to test clean, ...

The "free market" proponents should be all for this. If there's a want and/or need, people will buy, if it doesn't add any value, it'll just fade away.




the whole thing is assinine to the extreme, not to mention stifles the free market competition.   This is pure lunacy!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 8:46:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

The thing is, the tactic is anti-competition not because it's inaccurate about the company's product, but about the identical product from other companies. It prays on people's (understandible) ignorance of the process by implying other meats are unsafe.

lso if the concern already exists then it is not praying on ignorance to positively confirm that a risk is not inherent wihin your product.


i disagree with this!

To the contrary is assures people who buys this guys beef that every cow has in fact been tested safe for mad cow.  It is for people who are want high quality and are willing to get a flu shot.  All it takes is a label saying it has been checked, there is no implication that the government or anyone else is obligated to test the beef and let the market decide what is worth it.

there is a risk, it said 3 cows in the states had it.  not much granted but that is nonethe less 3 people alive and kickin

i htink there is a larger problem here tho and that is people assume our beef is checked or at least "known" safe.  After all that is what we pay our government to do!

as far as ignorance is concerned in this country there is plenty of that going around too!  i wonder if thy  have a cure for that too?  LOL




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 6/2/2007 8:56:54 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 10:53:46 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac
From the number of medical, keep fit and loose weight fast adverts that are on US TV this appears a double standard. Most advertising plays on the ignorance of the user.

Also if the concern already exists then it is not praying on ignorance to positively confirm that a risk is not inherent wihin your product. If that implies there is a risk in an alternative product then surely it is the competiions problem / decision to decide if their product need to be proof negative or not. They don't put a label on the beef saying it does not contain lead or does not have PCBs or other such contaminants.......

That's why this specific case is borderline, and it would depend on the exact wording used in the advertisements. I merely mentioned the general case previously, so people would be aware of some of the tactics used in advertizing.

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 11:03:57 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

The thing is, the tactic is anti-competition not because it's inaccurate about the company's product, but about the identical product from other companies. It prays on people's (understandible) ignorance of the process by implying other meats are unsafe.

lso if the concern already exists then it is not praying on ignorance to positively confirm that a risk is not inherent wihin your product.


i disagree with this!

To the contrary is assures people who buys this guys beef that every cow has in fact been tested safe for mad cow.  It is for people who are want high quality and are willing to get a flu shot.  All it takes is a label saying it has been checked, there is no implication that the government or anyone else is obligated to test the beef and let the market decide what is worth it.

there is a risk, it said 3 cows in the states had it.  not much granted but that is nonethe less 3 people alive and kickin

i htink there is a larger problem here tho and that is people assume our beef is checked or at least "known" safe.  After all that is what we pay our government to do!

as far as ignorance is concerned in this country there is plenty of that going around too!  i wonder if thy  have a cure for that too?  LOL




When it comes to food certification, going over each cow (or sheep, pig, fish, etc) is not necessary. Primarily because it's a living animal that has an immune system that assures it doesn't contain harmful levels of toxins. What makes you "sick" from bad meat is not the bacteria in the meat itself, but the toxins that the bacteria produce when they decompose meat.

Generally, however, it's recognized that the US has the second-highest standard in meat certification quality (surpassed only by Japan). Meat packaged in the EC and Commonwealth countries usually stands up to the same standards. The difference specifically is BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), which has nothing to do with "testing" but with feeding habits. Also, there is no clear link between BSE and Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease, because, although they share the same patterns, the prions are different. Is for this very reason you can eat "rare" bovine meat; because the diseases that afflict cows have no effect on humans (generally), since bovien and human cell walls have different receptor proteins.

More than actually testing cows, the best thing would be to educate the population. 3 bovines out of an average population in the hundred million area does not constitute a significant risk. Moreover, the risk can be eliminated with proper feeding -which (I might add) does not cost any more.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/2/2007 11:39:58 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Unlike any other beef company we test each and every cow and steer  for every known disease rigorously. Animal husbandry professionals are there every day. The cattle is grain fed, with mineral supplements. This is good beef.

It is our job here to provide you with the best quality beef possible, and at XYZ beef company we take our job seriously".

'they'  don't want people saying that, do you know why ?

Tell me what is unfair in any way about what is in the quotes. There is not one criticism in it.

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/3/2007 9:09:55 AM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Unlike any other beef company we test each and every cow and steer  for every known disease rigorously. Animal husbandry professionals are there every day. The cattle is grain fed, with mineral supplements. This is good beef.

It is our job here to provide you with the best quality beef possible, and at XYZ beef company we take our job seriously".

'they'  don't want people saying that, do you know why ?

Tell me what is unfair in any way about what is in the quotes. There is not one criticism in it.

If that was the advertizing used, then fine.

A different case would be: "BSE is a terrible disease that causes cows and steers to go insane. It has been demonstrated that eating contaminated beef can increase the risk of contracting Creutzfeldt-Jacobs disease, a serious condition identical to BSE. US beef livestocks ARE contaminated by BSE, which is why we test all of our livestock to ensure your health and safety. XYZ Beef is the only company in America testing their livestock for this disease."

See? Thats why I say it depends on how the testing is marketed -which clearly falls under the perview of advertizing legislation, and has nothing to do with the actual testing.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/3/2007 9:23:44 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas
More than actually testing cows, the best thing would be to educate the population. 3 bovines out of an average population in the hundred million area does not constitute a significant risk. Moreover, the risk can be eliminated with proper feeding -which (I might add) does not cost any more.


i wont argue that however i think that if i for instance want to do extra testing on the beef i sell even if there are zero cases there is no reason the government should be telling me i am not allowed to provide this and if the public feels it is not important they do not have to buy the beef that has extra testing done on it.

People buy various cars with consideration of safety factors but not beef? 

i say let the market decide what is important and worth paying for.  It would be different if they wanted less testing but that is not the case here.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/3/2007 1:30:03 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas
More than actually testing cows, the best thing would be to educate the population. 3 bovines out of an average population in the hundred million area does not constitute a significant risk. Moreover, the risk can be eliminated with proper feeding -which (I might add) does not cost any more.


i wont argue that however i think that if i for instance want to do extra testing on the beef i sell even if there are zero cases there is no reason the government should be telling me i am not allowed to provide this and if the public feels it is not important they do not have to buy the beef that has extra testing done on it.

People buy various cars with consideration of safety factors but not beef? 

i say let the market decide what is important and worth paying for.  It would be different if they wanted less testing but that is not the case here.


Exacty.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: USDA To Meatpackers: You Have No Right To Test For ... - 6/3/2007 2:13:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The market's been pretty clear w.r.t. rBGH, so I expect we'll see similar results here.

Remember when you could just eat a bit of hamburger raw from the butcher? My mom was able to get meat from people she TRUSTED.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/4/2007 10:23:25 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tuomas


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Toumas:
Are you saying that capitalism and free market are the same thing?
Are you saying that a capitalist is entitled to ignore the law?
The cite seems to say that it is the larger capitalist  who is trying to crush a smaller capitalist and the government is siding with the larger capitalist.
thompson

Capitalism is usually a term applied to free-market.
No it is not.  Capitalism is where someone with capital uses that capital to create an enterprise that may or may not exist in a free market.  Perhaps a refresher course in basic economics would be in order.

I did not say or imply in any way that Capitalists are entitled to ignore the law. That's your own idea.
Please go back and read my post.  It was a question not a statement so please do ant ascribe that idiocy to me.

"Seems to", exactly. Just because they are businessmen, it doesn't mean they are "capitalists" in anyway.
I am unclear what you are trying to say here.  Both are capitalist both the large beef producers who oppose full testing and the small producer who is also a capitalist.
Or is it just a knee jerk reaction to anyone who expresses any negative opinion about capitalism?
 

What I see is a group of companies trying to exploit a loophole in the legal system to supress someone else's rights. This falls in the category of facism, come to think of it...
This is exactly what I said a large group of capitalist in collusion with the government,which is called fascism, seeking to restrain free trade of another capitalist company.

(in reply to Tuomas)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/4/2007 10:28:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the law is idiotic.

i know a dude in the industry- he said if i only seen the 1/2 of it.

anyhow you dont dis the meat industry.

to my knowledge each of the presidents meals is tested for all types of poisens......

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/4/2007 10:39:28 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

to my knowledge each of the presidents meals is tested for all types of poisens......



pahunkboy:
It would seem to me to be a reasonable precaution....for someone who has caused the death of so many.
thompson

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/4/2007 10:46:29 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

to my knowledge each of the presidents meals is tested for all types of poisens......



pahunkboy:
It would seem to me to be a reasonable precaution....for someone who has caused the death of so many.
thompson


this goes back decades....

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: USDA To Meat packers: You Have No Right To Test For... - 6/4/2007 11:08:27 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

to my knowledge each of the presidents meals is tested for all types of poisens......



pahunkboy:
It would seem to me to be a reasonable precaution....for someone who has caused the death of so many.
thompson


this goes back decades....


pahunkboy:
My point was and is that only those who have a fear of being poisoned have their meals tested.
thompson

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 37
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