RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax.

RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (Full Version)

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nearnyccouple -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/4/2007 6:13:18 PM)
many years ago i had a Master who had 137 rules.........since i hate to be totally micro-managed, he wasnt my Master for very long..:) in my current relationship the only true rules i have are to be honest and respectful...why would i want to be otherwise? however, there are times when i have been less than respectful....early on in our relationship, as a result of that, i was given the task of writing a veryyyyyyyy long paper on trust, respect and communication..i suppose it could have been considered a punishment.....but since i enjoy writing so much, it was less a punishment and more of a valuable learning experience...Master and i discussed it after it was completed and to this day still go back and read it every once in a while.. so rules and protocols dont play a part in our relationaship very much at all......there are some who believe that controlling through fear is the right way to go....that has no place with us......does the lack of rules make me feel less submissive? i dont need rules to make me submit..it is who i am... cassie

juliaoceania -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/4/2007 6:55:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Yikes the Hierarchy of S-types bit goes against all I know and have found to be true in life. The bar being "Higher" stuff really is not constructive in my mind. The idea that a slave is better than a submissive is a value statement that can only be true if everyone buy into the exact same values. There are people in the world who would not be well served with or as a slave. How is slave better for them?????? It is not and thus any ranking of S-types is bunk unless you are specifying as a counterpart for a specific person or set of people who have agreed on a set of values. I so agree with this assessment.

Arastella -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/4/2007 7:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty If someone does not desire a slave, then they don't have to be served by one; they would be a Dominant/Domme, etc, NOT a Master/Mistress. I don't EVER want a Dominant, I get very insulted when they contact me and haven't a clue at the difference between a submissive and a slave. Every relationship is different; my training is a baseline, its a place to start from with a given partner. Like I said, this weekend, I exceeded expectations; I'm happy for that, it has set a new bar for me to reach for now. If you weren't so hung up on your One True Way, you might not get so insulted or frustrated. I get frusturated by ignorance by those who don't 'get it.' I speak from my experienced and views. I get insulted because of the lack of knowledge that some people say that they have. I spend a LOT of time reading {books} to better myself and to better understand. LA others may enjoy your sarcasm, I don't its rude and uncalled for. Their is a difference between, knowing, understanding, hearing and comprehending. If someone does not see those differences or doesn't take the time to, I can't and won't do it for them. Its teir loss, not mine. bursts out in a fit of laughter continues stops Sorry, sorry....... bursts out laughing again

Arastella -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/4/2007 7:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty If someone does not desire a slave, then they don't have to be served by one; they would be a Dominant/Domme, etc, NOT a Master/Mistress. I don't EVER want a Dominant, I get very insulted when they contact me and haven't a clue at the difference between a submissive and a slave. Every relationship is different; my training is a baseline, its a place to start from with a given partner. Like I said, this weekend, I exceeded expectations; I'm happy for that, it has set a new bar for me to reach for now. If you weren't so hung up on your One True Way, you might not get so insulted or frustrated. I get frusturated by ignorance by those who don't 'get it.' I speak from my experienced and views. I get insulted because of the lack of knowledge that some people say that they have. I spend a LOT of time reading {books} to better myself and to better understand. LA others may enjoy your sarcasm, I don't its rude and uncalled for. Their is a difference between, knowing, understanding, hearing and comprehending. If someone does not see those differences or doesn't take the time to, I can't and won't do it for them. Its teir loss, not mine. Don't call someone ignorant and act like a know-it-all and expect not to get a sarcastic remark back in your face. You act as if you know all because of "experience" but you aren't the only one here with experience. LA was justified in her comment.

kyraofMists -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:11:25 AM)
I have enjoyed reading most of this thread, especially Archer's posts. Sir, your thoughts reflect much the same mindset as my Lord's and I appreciate you sharing them. As for the OP, I love rules (we call them standing orders) and protocols. The standing order is the what is to be done and the protocol is the how it is to be done. I was following certain protocols long before I ever became owned. They were my own protocols and I think a lot of people have protocols in their life and don't even realize it. Even before I was owned I got ready for bed in almost the exact same way every single time. That is a protocol. Once I became owned he added his own protocol to what I was already doing. In no way am I micromanaged. I am given the boundaries of what is expected of me and then given the space to operate within those boundaries. The standing orders and protocols are there so that he doesn't have to micromange me. I know what is expected of me in most situations that we find ourselves in and I do not have to constantly seek direction from him for what he wants. I already know it. We do not deal in punishment, so there is no fear of punishment for not following a protocol. He will correct the behavior that he doesn't like and make sure that I understand what is expected. Protocols and rules are just opportunities to demonstrate a particular state of mind. Knight's kyra

darkinshadows -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:34:25 AM)
It is a bit 5050 for me. I enjoy rules and protocols, but they do not define who I am. I just think they have their place. What I dislike about them is when one decides that the rules must fit everyone and everything... ie: this is how a slave must act or (taking something mentioned here) Masters are not Dominants. To me that just hits the whole non consent route and forcing a one true way that only exists for individuals not a group or set up. It is lovely that someone has rules and sets a definition and it works for them, but to believe that makes them somewhat better or more than anyone else is then creating a tier system and is doomed to collapse as some point when expectations are shattered. On the mention of rituals that keep an intimate bond when partners cannot be together, I believe that there are rituals that exist when people can be together - but is this defined as a protocol? We (Darcy and I) have rituals that occur when we are both apart and together, things that just occured naturally and things that we designed as well. I believe that the rituals effect and affect my relationship with people, far more than rules and protocols ever could. Peace

MadRabbit -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:42:21 AM)
Well..I wish I had taken the time to read this because then I wont have spent time writing out my little part after all of Archers posts =) I couldnt help but notice this though... quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty A Master/Mitsress can have a slave, a Dominants/Dommes cannot. Dominants/Dommes have submissives; Masters/Mitresses have slaves. What is so hard to understand about that?! Its very simple. If someone does not desire a slave, then they don't have to be served by one; they would be a Dominant/Domme, etc, NOT a Master/Mistress. I don't EVER want a Dominant, I get very insulted when they contact me and haven't a clue at the difference between a submissive and a slave. Well...I'm a Dominant and I want a slave. I can do that as well. Why? Because I'm Dominant and I can have whatever I want in my relationships. I also get really insulted by people who seem to think I dont know the difference in a submissive or slave simply because I dont bestow myself the label of "Master" out of humility. I cant also help but give a smug chuckle at all the lowly submissives who contact me and dont realizethat I only want an Angitarian R3 High Protocol Slave... Dont they realize how pathetic they are? I mean the only reason I went threw the Special Leather Boot Camp to receive my Grandpubah Master Training was not so I could be happy in what I want, but so I can look down at other people with a smug sense of superiority and talk about my amazing credentials on the web. Dont people receive the only purpose of gaining experience and formal training is so we can be more certain of how much better we are than everyone else? I wish they would realize this so the rolling of red carpets and the throwing of flowers would happen with more frequency when I choose to post here.

KnightofMists -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 6:02:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well..I wish I had taken the time to read this because then I wont have spent time writing out my little part after all of Archers posts =) Well... I didn't have to take the time to read this entire thread G kyra preforms that function for me. Keeps me informed of the interesting threads and what posts of note to read. So... I didn't have to spend much of my time expressing any thougths on the topic since Archer expressed much of my own views so very nicely. All I need do is acknowledge his wise and intelligent words... which is of sorts patting myself on back at the same time lol. Also, kyra contributed some additional thougths that I have discussed with her and contributed them to the thread in her own words. Therefore.. I only have to sit around looking fabulous enjoying the good life..... and say..... DITTO once in awhile. lol Great thread btw. It strikes something that is important in my life.

spankmepink11 -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 6:36:21 AM)
Again , i appreciate all the thoughtful replies. I've been trying for some time now to kind of dispel the negative implications that some words instill in me. I know it's a matter of semantics, and sometimes just by hearing how others view or interpret these things goes a long way toward helping me with that goal.

denika -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 9:39:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Now back to the debate at hand, Saying a slave is better than a submissive is like saying a lemon is better than a lime. They are both citrus fruits but they are different and thus unless you specify better for what and to whom, any claim of better is unsupported. Better than is always a subjective not objective and as such requires clarification of the subjective criteria. A hammer is a better tool for driving nails than a can opener But a can opener is a better tool than a hammer for opening cans. So is a hammer better than a can opener? It depends on the job at hand. Thank you Archer! Being judged as 'less' simply because I identify as a submissive and bottom and not a slave is always frustrating, my value in the relationships I am in is not gauged by a title. In regards to the original question, protocols, for the most part do not work well with me. I beleive in behaving and responding appropriatly to the situation and person but I don't have any one set of guidlines, lol I loved that Archer called them the SOP's--I have a whole binder of those at work :) If I am at a lifestyle event my behavior is going to be more formal than it is at home or at Knight's home. I have never done well in an enviroment that is regimented, set patterns tend to make me uncomfortable and ultimatly would make me feel a bit resentful. I do like the idea of small rituals but even those can be done at diffrent times. When I think more into it, I do see that I have some SOP's for behavior, on how I interact with others but they are not something that was ever set down as a specific rule but just generally agreed upon as good form. I do wonder at times what it would be like to have a more formal set of protocals but that falls into the 'curiousity pile' not the 'I need to have them or would function better with them pile' I do not beleive that living in the 'Land of Chaos' as Rob calls it. that it makes me any better or any worse as a submissive... It just makes me, me. hopefully that makes sense! denika

Archer -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 10:12:19 AM)
Then you'll really appreciate the speach I'm set to give Saturday night at SELF. I'll send you a copy of the text after this weekend if you'd like.

denika -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 1:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Then you'll really appreciate the speach I'm set to give Saturday night at SELF. I'll send you a copy of the text after this weekend if you'd like. Thank you very much, I would love to read it denika

RaynaSub -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 3:10:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nearnyccouple many years ago i had a Master who had 137 rules.........since i hate to be totally micro-managed, he wasnt my Master for very long..:) in my current relationship the only true rules i have are to be honest and respectful...why would i want to be otherwise? however, there are times when i have been less than respectful....early on in our relationship, as a result of that, i was given the task of writing a veryyyyyyyy long paper on trust, respect and communication..i suppose it could have been considered a punishment.....but since i enjoy writing so much, it was less a punishment and more of a valuable learning experience...Master and i discussed it after it was completed and to this day still go back and read it every once in a while.. so rules and protocols dont play a part in our relationaship very much at all......there are some who believe that controlling through fear is the right way to go....that has no place with us......does the lack of rules make me feel less submissive? i dont need rules to make me submit..it is who i am... cassie I enjoy rules and protocols, it makes life easier for me. I think 137 rules is excessive, something like 10-20 firm rules work for me, and are easier for me to remember.

KnightofMists -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 3:39:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: denika quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Then you'll really appreciate the speach I'm set to give Saturday night at SELF. I'll send you a copy of the text after this weekend if you'd like. Thank you very much, I would love to read it denika So would I... of course... denika can just send it to me so you don't have to type it all out twice g denika when he sends it to you... you can type it all out in email to me G

mistoferin -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:15:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nearnyccouple many years ago i had a Master who had 137 rules LMAO....I bet I know what at least 128 of them were [:D] http://members.aol.com/dsdiary/128slaverules.html

slavemaia -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:26:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spankmepink11 Are we defined by how many rules we are given to follow? Is the use ,or lack of, protocol a defining factor or basis for being submissive? Do submissives feel more or less submissive by the number of rules and or protocols laid down to follow? So...how important are rules and protocol to you? i am not defined by the number of rules i am to follow - i am defined by who i am - i am maia - Chairman's slave - there is really no definition for that anymore than there is a definition for any person. Rules and protocols are important to me only in terms of how important they are to Chairman. And i am still learning how to "go with the flow" so-to-speak; the flow being His prerogatives and desires. i don't know how other submissives feel, i just know that my first rule is please my Master - all else is optional and up to Him.

mistoferin -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 4:59:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty I do wholeheartedly believe that the title of 'slave' is earned, NOT given, as it does mean the bar is set higher and more is expected in a relationship from one who is 'a slave.' Their use to be a 'heirarchy' of sorts that listed what the baseline for 'a submissive,' 'a servant,' a slave,' 'a pet' etc were. Its been years since I have seen such a thing, yet I do remember it. My goal was NEVER to be 'a slave,' I figured out a long time ago that I was more submissve to various types of men, so entering into D/s was a natural progression and place for me, especially when I started to persue older men for relationships, things worked out. I don't look at what I experienced as self-identification, I look at it more as a different way of learning and one that I am greatfull for; things aren't wishy washy as with other I have encountered on the boards. The bar is higher, and I strive for it; just as I set it higher for a potential partner. My areas of 'formal training' are - basic positioning, cum, ass, spice, obediance, breath control, eye, point, verbal, expectance, oral, manners (including high protocol and 3rd person). It was like any other training, just done over and over. It was structured, it was extensive it was all inclusive, from the moment I woke up til I finally went to bed, and even then, sleeping was a learned experience, you try having a chain around your ankle, and try to get comfortable, not easy. 48 to 72 hours at a time. Don't get me wrong, I was allowed to check in with my child and those who were my safe calls, but, things were structured and VERY high protocol. After xyz weekends like that, I earned my title, my view on M/s and on lifestyle changed, I saw things differently, hense my strong views on many things. I need a refresher course on some things and in some areas, but, right now, I don't see that as an issue; I exceeded expectations this weekend. [:D] I set the bar higher not only for me, but for him as well; I just take this new path and journey as a new chance to learn and to grow. I will be going back over notes, more to get that headspace back, for the moment, I'm not worried, I'm glad we are still talking and on the same page. I am just beside myself. Here I was wandering through life completely comfortable and thinking I was relatively self aware...and now my very identity is cast into doubt. I never went to weekend slave camp, have no idea what the heck spice, point or expectance training are and have never spoken in the third person. I guess I should be ashamed of myself for ever even entertaining the idea that I could have ever been a slave as surely my absence at training camp and my lack of "formal instruction" in these areas would obviously negate the 25 consecutive years I spent in service, not just on weekends, but every moment of every day. I can see now that I didn't go through the proper channels to earn my title so therefore....my life has been but a lie.

denika -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/5/2007 7:40:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists So would I... of course... denika can just send it to me so you don't have to type it all out twice g denika when he sends it to you... you can type it all out in email to me G Certianly, I take it 'type it out' isn't the same as cut and paste? :) denika

maledave7 -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/6/2007 4:13:24 AM)
I really do not like someone standing over my shoulder all the time. I would prefer a Domme who gives me freedom and not to micromanage my life to serve her. I know that there will be duties she wants me to do. I am self-motivated to do things. If I see something at needs to be done, I will go ahead and take care of it. If I were unsure about something, I would always ask her about it. I feel that over time, our relationship would develop and grow. I will learn what she expects from me and what she desires to give to me.

mistoferin -> RE: Rules, protocol, and the whole ball of wax. (6/6/2007 8:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Yikes the Hierarchy of S-types bit goes against all I know and have found to be true in life. The bar being "Higher" stuff really is not constructive in my mind. The idea that a slave is better than a submissive is a value statement that can only be true if everyone buy into the exact same values. There are people in the world who would not be well served with or as a slave. How is slave better for them?????? It is not and thus any ranking of S-types is bunk unless you are specifying as a counterpart for a specific person or set of people who have agreed on a set of values. I so agree with this assessment. I also agree with this and like the way that Archer has explained it.

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