RE: Support Custer and our brave troops!

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops!

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Support Custer and our brave troops!

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 7:34:03 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

I am not going to defend the United States government's treatment of American Indians or aborigines (I refuse to use the term native American. Native means, "born in" and I was born in North America.). However I think people tend to look at the Sioux and the Battle of Little Bighorn without actually looking at the whole picture. The Sioux were not the original inhabitants of the Black Hills in the Dakotas. They displaced several other tribes that already existed there long before whites showed up, and they didn't do it peacefully. White settlers weren't anymore oppresive or warlike than American Indians were. Various tribes used the same trickery, savage tactics, and treaty violations with each other that whites used. The only difference is that white settlers had superior technology. More technologically advanced cultures conquering less advanced cultures is not exclusive to Europeans.

As for the Custer comparison with Bush; I don't see it. If I had to compare Bush with a historical figure it would be Woodrow Wilson. He had the same idealistic vision of making the world safe for democracy, and came from a similar priviliged, WASP upbringing. Wilson had good intentions just like Bush, but accomplished nothing by involving the United States in Europe's squabbling over colonial holdings. I don't believe that Bush had some hidden agenda or diabolical intentions. Unlike a lot of his detractors, I don't give him that much credit. I really do believe he thinks he's doing the right thing. But like the old cliche goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Wilson didn't understand European politics when he proposed the League of Nations, just like Bush doesn't understand Middle Eastern politics. Bush is not alone there. Out of all the candidates running for the presidency on both the Democratic and Republican sides, the only one that seems to get it is Dr. Ron Paul. That is who I will be casting my vote for in the primaries, and I encourage others to do the same.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 7:38:11 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

It was the French who taught the indians how to scalp, it was christian americans who gave them blankets laced with smallpox, I could go on but facts before swine and all.

Name in the last 300 years a race wiped out by natives and then list the ones wiped out by Europeans, genocide is a specialty of European christians.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 7:46:28 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Name in the last 300 years a race wiped out by natives and then list the ones wiped out by Europeans, genocide is a specialty of European christians.

In all fairness, the lack of population pressures in North America, as well as the lack of effective human slaughtering technology, did not really promote the wholesale genocide of (I use this term, as a 4th generation Californian, because the aboriginal peoples of North American prefer to be called this) Native Americans.

The question becomes if the Native Americans were capable of wholesale slaughter, would they have done so?

China is in the process of wiping out the Tibetan people, not by murder, but in true Chinese fashion by importing Chinese and wiping out the local religion.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 8:30:12 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

It was the French who taught the indians how to scalp, it was christian americans who gave them blankets laced with smallpox, I could go on but facts before swine and all.

Name in the last 300 years a race wiped out by natives and then list the ones wiped out by Europeans, genocide is a specialty of European christians.

Actually, there is a debate about whether Europeans taught scalping to Indians. It's not a fact; it is hotly disputed among historians. Scalping is an ancient practice that has been used by many cultures all over the world. Since the practice was observed being used among tribes that never had any contact with Europeans, I tend to believe that it wasn't taught by Europeans. There is evidence that blankets exposed to smallpox were given to some Indian tribes, and yes that is deplorable. However those types of tactics are not exclusive to Europeans. Ancient cultures all over the world would often use dead animals and feces as weapons to cause disease among their enemies, and that includes American Indians. I am not defending the tactic nor am I excusing it; I am only pointing out the fact that it is not exclusive to Europeans.

As for the genocide argument, most of the American Indians that died of disease were not infected deliberately. When Europeans first set foot in the Americas, the knowledge of what caused diseases was not known. Europeans did not deliberately infect the indigenous peoples of the Americas anymore than Asian traders deliberately caused the epidemic of Bubonic Plague in medieval Europe. Anytime different peoples come into contact with each other in they exchange disease with one another. Often times that results in mass death.

Since you asked me to provide examples of non-European Christians in the last 300 years attempting to wipe out an indigenous population, I will do so. From the late 1500's until the end of World War II, Christianity was outlawed in Japan and was punishable by death. In China during the 19th Century, there were several different instances where the imperial government tried to wipe out Muslims and aboriginal peoples. The Ottoman Turks (Muslims of Asiatic origin) tried to wipe out the Armenians (European Christians) during the First World War. The Ottomans came very close to succeeding and estimates of the deaths range between 500,000 and 2 million Armenian deaths. During the Indochina wars after World War II there were several instances of attempted genocide. The Vietnamese in both the communist and American backed governments tried to wipe out the indigenous Montagnard population. The Khmer Rouge committed a mass genocide against many different ethnic groups in Cambodia. They ended up killing an estimated 2 million people. Those I have listed are just off the top of my head; I am sure I could provide more if I wanted to research it.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 6/14/2007 8:44:48 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 8:40:53 AM

peepeegirl5

Posts: 214
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline

I'm 1/8 Lakota Souix.

I have a nice pic of the greatest American hero, Geronimo, on my wall.

Above it says : Department of Homeland Security
Below it says : Fighting Terrorism Since 1492

_____________________________

"If we value so highly the dignity of life, how can we not also value the dignity of death? No death may be called futile." - Yukio Mishima

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 8:45:13 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5

I'm 1/8 Lakota Souix.

I have a nice pic of the greatest American hero, Geronimo, on my wall.

Above it says : Department of Homeland Security
Below it says : Fighting Terrorism Since 1492

I have a T-shirt of that which I wear all the time.

I think wearing it through customs at the airport was a bit poorly conceived on my part.

Sinergy

p.s. My kids are 1/8 Mohawk.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to peepeegirl5)

Profile

Post #: 46

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 12:23:55 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

The entire continent of Africa, South America, North America, Australia, Easter Islands, oh hell many Pacific Islands....should I go on?

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Profile

Post #: 47

RE: Support Custer and our brave troops! - 6/14/2007 1:18:36 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

The entire continent of Africa, South America, North America, Australia, Easter Islands, oh hell many Pacific Islands....should I go on?

Go on about what? You asked for examples of non-Christian European examples of genocide in the last 300 years, and I provided you with some. I find it a little odd that you mention Easter Island. When Europeans arrived there, the entire island was starving to death. The natives stripped the entire island of trees in order to build the statues you see there now. They fought a civil war with each other and damn near killed themselves off long before Europeans arrived. I am well aware that Europeans went around the world conquering people. Do you think that is because they are exceptionally evil? Do you think all of these native people were living in peaceful Utopian societies before Europeans showed up?

You mention the Americas. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the Aztecs were a indigenous American society. When the Spaniards arrived in Mexico they were raiding neighboring tribes for human sacrifices. In one ceremony it is estimated that 100,000 people were slaughtered in religious sacrifices. As for Africa, slavery had been well established there before Europeans ever arrived. The Arabs had been trading in African slaves for well over a thousand years before Europeans caught on to it. Many Pacific island cultures were well documented for the practice of cannibalism and headhunting. Man's inhumanity to man is not exclusive to white Europeans.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 48