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RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 10:42:43 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone who has replied on this so far - its all very interesting.

I'm seeing a correlation between formality and manners and gentlemanly behaviour - which is contrasted with the lack of formality, lack of manners and reducing instances of gentlemanly behaviour in the UK that I experience. Things are much more formal on the European continent than here too, which is interesting.

I also wonder whether the lack of mutual respect we have in the UK (you get respect if you have sufficient wealth or size, otherwise you can f**k off!) is an aspect of this, a consequence of this or the cause of this.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 10:46:17 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nonu
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
I was with one Master for a while an I remember when he got upset because I opened my own car door from the inside before he could get to it. He made me get back inside the car, put my hands in my lap, he closed and and came back around and sat back insides, explained me that I should NEVER open my own door when around him, I can reach over to unlock his door, yet he is to ALWAYS open and close my doors for me as well as help me to sit and to stand. THEN he got out, locked and closed his door, came over to my side, opened it, helped me out, then locked and closed my door than took me on his arm. He said, "thats better. You don't open your doors, I do." I was so impressed that I was on the verge of subspace, just by how much a gentleman he was and by how submissive I felt. It was heaven.

What a truly wonderful way of being Dominant. I can understand how submissive you would've felt, being treated that way by your own Master. Lucky!


I remember calling my best friend up that night and telling her, she turned into mush. The Master an I have sence parted ways, but, I have been lucky to have been with others [vanilla and lifestyle] who were similar, no one to that extent, but, it is definaly a feeling I will never forget. I was treated like a LADY. New concept. I hope of the males areound here are paying attention!! 'Treate her like a lady and she will MELT.'

When a man treastes me like a lady, I will do just about anything he asks or wants.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to nonu)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 1:32:50 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		My (vanilla) friends and I were just laughing about this and discussing good manners the other night at dinner. They claimed that, for some reason when I'm with them...doors get opened, we're given seats, or spots in line etc. People, in general, act more gentlemanly/polite when I'm around. One female friend claimed she had never had a male open a door for her in her life until she was out with me. Another said it happens to her all the time but she felt insulted when men did so. (I really don't understand that at all) Most of the males present, with the few exceptions of perhaps 3 males, were also raised to open doors, pull out chairs and be a gentleman regardless of their age range. The group of 20 people ranged in age from 20's to 50's with an equal female to male ratio. However, during the discussion we found that the majority of those that were raised to be gentleman seemed to be from the South or Midwest originally even though we all are now in Southern California.

Personally, it's how I was raised and something I expect and I'm very independant as well. I was also raised in the Midwest. I expect the men in my life to be gentleman...from the person I date to my UM.  I open doors for others, give up my seat or allow someone to step ahead of me in line, and use Ma'am or Sir, Please and Thank you on a daily basis. It has nothing to do with being Dominant or submissive and more to do with simple common courtesy and good manners. My UM was always complimented for being polite and a gentleman even during the surly teen years.

A poll would be interesting to see demographics of those with gentlemanly (or gentlewoman) behavior Lady E!

During dinner I reiterated a story about how on a date someone neglected to open my car door and help me out of the car. (I left out the little details that he claimed to be a sub or that I'm a Domme. LOL.) Seems he was all the way to the Maitre D before he realized I wasn't standing next to him. So he back tracked and found me waiting (not quite patiently) for him to do the gentlemanly thing. I explained to him that there were certain expectations of behavior that I had for the people within my life. My friends laughed but I made the point that people treat you in the manner you allow them to, unless you explain to them the expectations you have on their behavior when they differ.

As far as the guy that didn't open the car door in the example. The point was made regarding behavior, or so I thought, but the behavior continued even after I gave him a book on ettiquette (he claimed he had never been taught how to act like a gentleman.). I attempted to help him become one. Evidently the lessons never were taken to heart and I discontinued seeing him after a few weeks. Others have taken my guidance towards gentlemanly behavior to heart and learned from it.

Interesting topic and I do agree that Europeans do tend to be far more mannerly in general.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 2:03:42 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I do love people with good manners and who are polite. I am independent and a feminist. I insist my sub be a gentleman. We had an interesting conversation one day about why the gentlemenly ways seem to be going away. He says its because so many women scream at men for trying to do things for them. As if the women feels threatened in some way by this. Well I in no way feel threatened by someone holding a door for me, or pulling out my chair at the dining table. In fact I find it very pleasant. I do not know who the screaming ladies are but I'd like to hear their side of it.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 2:31:16 PM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		I was raised to open doors,etc. I've also had women get offended if I try and do something nice such as open a door or send flowers...

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 2:35:35 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I wonder if it might be interesting to post a question to those who feel offended by a man offering courtesy to them, as to why they feel that way? Where would one post such a thread though?

E


_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to stockingluvr54)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 4:19:32 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder if it might be interesting to post a question to those who feel offended by a man offering courtesy to them, as to why they feel that way? Where would one post such a thread though?

E



E,

Perhaps the General Board to get a more overall response. I would be interested in seeing why that reaction as well. The friend at dinner couldn't really explain it herself beyond feeling insulted as a woman (and a feminist) that she was seen as incapable of opening a door for herself. I had quite an inward chuckle at that. All a matter of perspective I suppose.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 6:16:06 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I don't remember how I learned the chivalrous behavior I practice. Some of it I can consciously remember learning. Some I don't remember how I learned.

I see opening doors as simply a nice gesture and extend it to both sexes.

There are some acts of chivalry I regularly perform. There are some that I do per the occasion and environment. Chivalry carries a sense of formality and I sometimes have to check against being too formal. As an example, while I recognize that it is polite to use Mr. or Ms., I mostly address people by first name and prefer to be addressed the same way--I think doing so lessens the distance between people.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 7:30:08 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Nice topic Lady E!  Over all I have found the people in the Southern
states in the USA, to be far more polite.
Funny thing is, I hold the door for men , women, children and usually any one
coming in after me.
I often speak and just say hello to almost anyone.
Since I tend to smile a lot, I have a lot of women say hello to me also.
I think it has to do a lot with home training and just being a pleasant person.
I give a lot of smiles out, whether I get them back or not.
We should all hold the doors for each other, when feasible.
We should all give our seats up for the elderly, disabled, pregnant or anyone that looks
like they could use the seat more than you can.
We should also all give people smiles and say Hello as often as you can.
These things are free, and can brighten up someone elses day!


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 8:08:13 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I give a lot of smiles out, whether I get them back or not.



You know, i believe that!

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/6/2007 8:29:43 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		petdave, you are a cutie.
Your wife is lucky to have you.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/7/2007 7:57:49 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder if it might be interesting to post a question to those who feel offended by a man offering courtesy to them, as to why they feel that way? Where would one post such a thread though?

E



E,

feeling insulted as a woman (and a feminist) that she was seen as incapable of opening a door for herself.


Think the key word here may be "feminist"... Possibly offended because of the mindset that she doesn't need a man for anything so a simple polite jesture is seen as an attack on her independance? Just a thought........

The feminist thing has kinda thrown a monkey wrench into things since it came about. You're damned if ya do and damned if ya don't...??

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/7/2007 8:58:29 AM   
goodmanners


Posts: 28
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		Good comment and question, Lady Ellen. In my case I was brought up this way, and have tried to teach my sons the same lessons. As a submissive i feel blessed to have had the initial training; and i have been able to concentrate on refining this to accommodate the wishes of those Women i have had the pleasure to serve or simply know.
gm

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/7/2007 2:36:24 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder if it might be interesting to post a question to those who feel offended by a man offering courtesy to them, as to why they feel that way? Where would one post such a thread though?

E



E,

feeling insulted as a woman (and a feminist) that she was seen as incapable of opening a door for herself.


Think the key word here may be "feminist"... Possibly offended because of the mindset that she doesn't need a man for anything so a simple polite jesture is seen as an attack on her independance? Just a thought........

The feminist thing has kinda thrown a monkey wrench into things since it came about. You're damned if ya do and damned if ya don't...??


I disagree, I am a feminist and I have no problem whatsoever with a male holding a door for me, or pulling out my chair. I expect it to be done. I do the same in return. That is no reflection on my Dominance or my feminist views. It's simply good manners. Her perception of feminism obviously differs from mine and since she has no idea about my proclivities towards D/s or S/m I found it amusing that she would be insulted rather than enjoy her power as a Woman.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to stockingluvr54)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/7/2007 4:05:26 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54



Think the key word here may be "feminist"... Possibly offended because of the mindset that she doesn't need a man for anything so a simple polite jesture is seen as an attack on her independance? Just a thought........

The feminist thing has kinda thrown a monkey wrench into things since it came about. You're damned if ya do and damned if ya don't...??


I disagree, I am a feminist and I have no problem whatsoever with a male holding a door for me, or pulling out my chair. I expect it to be done. I do the same in return. That is no reflection on my Dominance or my feminist views. It's simply good manners. Her perception of feminism obviously differs from mine and since she has no idea about my proclivities towards D/s or S/m I found it amusing that she would be insulted rather than enjoy her power as a Woman.


I agree with Ms Jo. and I agree with Stockingluvr in part.

I am a feminist in many respects in that I feel women are just as capable and powerful as males are (ok I think women are more capable and powerful but I won't go there), yet I see the differences between genders, especially at a social level.  I think it's great when a male holds a door open for a woman, and I never have a problem with it. 

If anything, I think there is additional power given to women when males offer such courtesy to women that they don't offer to the male gender.  I do not feel that my capacity/independene to open a door myself is threatened in any way.  It is obvious I am capable of opening a door myself.

On the other hand, I have known some women who consider themselves feminists who are rather anti-male and do not want a male to do anything for them... period.  I think women with this mindset in the minority of feministst, but they are out there.

Additionally, I don't think the feminist movement has thrown a monkey wrench into anything....  Women not being considered equal should have never existed to begin with.  Wanting to gain equality where it is deserved is not throwing a monkey wrench anywhere.

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/7/2007 4:11:28 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Well, I like to think that I'm gentlewomanly: there is a lot to be said for gentility, and I think it goes both ways :-)

_____________________________



(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? - 6/8/2007 8:36:18 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54



Think the key word here may be "feminist"... Possibly offended because of the mindset that she doesn't need a man for anything so a simple polite jesture is seen as an attack on her independance? Just a thought........

The feminist thing has kinda thrown a monkey wrench into things since it came about. You're damned if ya do and damned if ya don't...??




On the other hand, I have known some women who consider themselves feminists who are rather anti-male and do not want a male to do anything for them... period.  I think women with this mindset in the minority of feministst, but they are out there.

Additionally, I don't think the feminist movement has thrown a monkey wrench into anything....  Women not being considered equal should have never existed to begin with.  Wanting to gain equality where it is deserved is not throwing a monkey wrench anywhere.



I probably should have said "It throws a monkey wrench into my way of trying to understand women"  It used to be that when opening a door for a lady usually ended with a smile and/or a "thankyou". Generally it still does get an appreciative reaction from most women but there are a few who obviously take offense? These are the rare times that I don't quite understand why a simple polite jesture is taken offensively by a few? Keeps me scratching my head?

Anyways... It's not a big deal and I don't loose any sleep over it, but it does make me wonder at times. I have nothing against feminists...in fact I seek a strong willed, independant, and dominant woman so I'm sorry if I misslead anyone by associating all feminists with the anti-male types.....

Thanks for bringing that to my attention MistressL.....

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 37
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