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RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 7:56:45 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

but only to a point there too.

That's what prenups are for. I have no problem with that. I would sign one and expect my partner to as well. There are some material things that I can't afford to lose. I don't think I would conisder entering a marriage without a prenup. Not at my age, anyway.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 6/7/2007 7:57:11 AM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to MyMastersOwn)

Post #: 21

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 8:46:46 AM

Ghostfalcon

Posts: 7
Joined: 10/31/2005
Status: offline

Thanks to all those willing to share stories and for the positive responses.

It is possible in any relationship to abuse your partner with finances - however their are often more opportunities in power relationships. I normally don't post on boards however a couple of close friends who have had similar experiences to those posted me to encouraged me to, so I'm grateful for the responses.

Based on the responses I'd thought I'd add some thoughts:

On the topic of talking about money - As a Dom married to a Domme - I believe we've both had to master the art of compromise and understanding. Though subless (>sniff<. j/k - got to have a sense of humour) we have also helped a number of people master their finances - including friends in BDSM. I believe this is not just because we are good with money, and educated about it - but because my parents made sure that I was educated about finance, to learn from their mistakes, and we have continued to educate ourselves about money. Though we are only in our 30's unlike our friends we didn't start learning about money in our 20's - it was a discussion point in our families at a young age. In fact one of the things that we have provided those who have asked for advice is a list of books that our parents had us read and that we have read. Talking about money is hard - but its necessary. Talk about it as a family/relationship. If you use a financial model from a book or something have your partner read it so you have a common ground.

I thought one financial thing that I would share is something that we do in our house. We have a 'Kitty' - its a portion of income we set aside and we just spend on whatever we want - when I first moved to America from England it was just $20, as our income raised - it raised. We take it out in cash every pay period and we can spend it on anything - this way you don't feel trapped with money or that you have to justify every expense. This stops spenders spending as much as they might - and encourages savers to live a little (I'm a saver - so I refer to it as a growing experience)

A poster questioned making money a driver. It is not - a healthy, satisfying relationship is, however don't let money ruin/damage/destroy your relationship or you life. The people who are successful with money often share an understanding that money is a tool, its purpose is to trade for the things you want in life. Its absence can make other parts of your life more difficult. It is never to late to take control of your finances.

The following quotes are ones I thought I'd share:
"Money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver." - Ayn Rand
"Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons" Woody Allen
"Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Smith
"We take care our health, we lay up money, we make our roof tight and our clothing sufficient, but who provides wisely that he shall not be wanting the best property of all -- friends?" Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Money and success don't change people; they merely amplify what was already there" Will Smith

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 22

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 8:49:40 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. Dorothy Parker

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Ghostfalcon)

Post #: 23

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 9:50:34 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Money - not money grubbing money but "what the fuck do you mean you bought a new car but didn't make the house payment" sort of money has destroyed more relationships than anything else.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 24

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 10:10:52 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
i don't believe in the idea that a slave should look out for her own best interest (i.e. demanding knowledge of all financial matters, or keeping "a little something hidden away"). isn't that completely contrary to the whole idea of slavery in the first place?
No. And, in our relationship, looking out for my best interests doesn't involve "demanding"anything, especially knowledge of ALL financial matters. I don't have to "hide" anything away, either. I am well provided for and will be in any case........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 25

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 11:11:06 AM

MissHarlet

Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline

As so many have stated a difficult subject to bring up when in the midst of the " honeymoon" before moving in together. Yet it is one of the most important things you MUST discuss.

Never ever assume that your new Dominant or Submissive will take care of you always and you dont have to be concerned. Trust me, Dominants are taken care of by submissives financially at times too.

In my opinion a good Dominant will insist on this conversation even if the Submissive doesnt bring it up. It is all part of being responsible.

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 26

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 2:34:27 PM

ready4srvce4all

Posts: 767
Joined: 3/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

Financial Matters

~       5% of gross pay will go to 401(k) or other retirement/savings
~       5% of net pay will go to household will go to “Family Fun Fund”
~       20% of net pay will go to Robert
~       Remainder of net pay will go to the household.
~       Bills will be paid on the first day of each month.
~       Robert will not incur any new bills without express permission of Mistress
~       Robert will not make any purchases beyond his means of 20% of his net pay unless approved by Mistress or [husband] (in the event that Robert is asking about a gift for Mistress)
~       Robert will keep balanced household monies and will assist Mistress in building a budget.
~       Robert will pay household bills from Mistress’ checking on the first of the month and Mistress will oversee and sign checks for payments.
~       Robert will discuss any issues regarding financial matters with Mistress

This came directly from a word doc I shared with Robert when we knew he was moving in. I already knew exactly what his financial status was and will be in the next ten years or so (within normal reason). I know everything about his financial status and he knows what is necessary to complete above tasks about my financial status.

That was the easy stuff for us. We'll tweak it as it happens.

Mistress knows not just all my financial obligations and status, She is also aware of financial issues that came up while I am once again temporarily away. We are both very honest and open about our finances. I can't agree more that to be in a long term relationship of any sort, it is imperative both parties have the honesty to fully disclose their situations. After all, that makes another fun way to be together, charting a course for the future. Our future.

_____________________________

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 27

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 2:51:16 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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~Fast Reply~

It my sincere belief that a responsible owner who will not let thieir property work will inform their sub and slave of the household finances even that sub/slave doesn't want to know.

A very good point has been raised: What if Master ends up in the hospital in a coma? Do you know how to access the money? Do you know how he would want it paid for? Medical care is not cheap. He won't be there to help you and you won't be able to help him if you don't know. Comas can last for years and years and life support isn't free.

It it entirely within the duty of the submissive and slave to know how to take care of the household funds with when the owner is incapable of doing so.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ready4srvce4all)

Post #: 28

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 5:02:27 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

With Master having chronic ill health I have access to and the major control of both of our bank accounts, and have done from the time we first moved in together.

It is one less thing for Him to worry about and even though I report to Him about bills to be paid and how much money is left He trusts me to do what needs doing when.

I am always appalled when I hear of subs/slaves who happily hand over control of their finances and end up having no access to money and no idea of how much there actually is......life is unpredictable and you never know when you may be left in the lurch if the person in control is suddenly taken ill or dies

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 29

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 5:14:09 PM

twistedkytten

Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline

Fantastic rant !!
thank You for sharing it.

(in reply to Ghostfalcon)

Post #: 30

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 6:18:57 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

There is a lot of talk about sexual predators lurking under the guise of BDSM, but the subject of financial predators is rarely raised. Even healthy D/s relationships can come unstuck over money. But even worse are the fringe dwellers who inhabit the world of BDSM for financial gain. I've heard so many sad tales of men sending money to women who take the money and then let them down, and women moving in on men expecting them to support them, and so on ad infinitim. BDSM should come with a warning label: CAUTION! May be hazardous to your financial health!

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to twistedkytten)

Post #: 31

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 7:34:00 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

It my sincere belief that a responsible owner who will not let thieir property work will inform their sub and slave of the household finances even that sub/slave doesn't want to know.

A very good point has been raised: What if Master ends up in the hospital in a coma? Do you know how to access the money? Do you know how he would want it paid for? Medical care is not cheap. He won't be there to help you and you won't be able to help him if you don't know. Comas can last for years and years and life support isn't free.

It it entirely within the duty of the submissive and slave to know how to take care of the household funds with when the owner is incapable of doing so.

this is only within the submissive's or slave's duty IF the Dominant/Master has declared such. if the Master has declared that such things are none of her concern, then they are none of her concern. issues that you mention above, such as how to handle financial matters in the case of a sudden illness, can be handled in ways that do not involve the submissive or slave taking control of the finances. if my Master were suddenly to fall ill tomorrow, and was unable to work or even think properly, therefore unable to take care of the bill paying and such, he has already made arrangements for his accountant to manage the basic household finances, and a close relative to take care of the car note and insurance. as far as medical care for himself, that would also be handled by a close relative. under absolutely no circumstances would he wish me to take such matters into my hands.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 32

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/7/2007 8:25:33 PM

Slavetrainer2007

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

Un fortunately money is a hard subject for couples in any relationship to discuss. I found in most most relationship of all types their is a primary money handler. I think its easier for one person to manage the finances. Mainly depending on who is best at money management.

I have saw the " split the bills" approaches first hand. It doesnt work very well from what ive seen. What people fail to understand is your in a relationship, relationships are team efforts not working solo living under the same roof.

I think its most important( in serious commited relationship) both parties understand the finances and are aware of them. Where money is coming from and where it goes. Just because he/she is sub dont mean they should be oblivious to fininacial information especially in a long term setting. I have seen what this can do with my own parents( who were vanilla as far as i know) My dad took care of everything my mom didnt even know how much money she could spend at the store. She ( being born pre-WW2 and poor) didnt know much about what we consider basics of everyday life. she couldnt drive until she was almost 50 nor even balance a checkbook. Granted the chances of that happening today are slim. But its important that the s in D/s dont end up so dependent on the D she/he cannot function on their own outside of the relationship.

This includes financially. The one thats better at managing money should be teaching the one that cashes the check and heads straight to the store/casino/ races/ etc how to manage and budget money.

Here is how it works in my household of 3( me, my slave, our daughter) :

I am the primary financial provider( at least at this time).
She has an income that is very fluid as it is more or less part time when she has time.
The main source of support is my income.
She gets 50% of her income( though this will change to a lower % if she starts making a significant amount more) to spend on her, the baby( toys clothes but not necessity clothing, etc.) and just to do whatever she wants with it.
I get the other 50% which i use to help support us.
I manage all the money but the 50% she gets. I pay all the bills, all the bills are in my name, etc.
She can look at the bills, ask about finances, etc if she chooses.

This is a basic idea of how i do it without going into alot of financial detail.

It is important that she has some knowledge of the finances to me( though i let her choose how interested she is and dont push it). If something happens where i get sick or something, he will need to know what bills to pay where to get money to pay them and when to pay them. In my absence, she has to manage the finances if needs be .While one may manage the finances ,both should know how to manage the finances. And the one that manages the finances should teach the one that dont how to manage them.

Finances is one area of relationships that is often neglected. In fact most arguments in a relationship stem from some financial situation or problem.

_____________________________

Life is given, Everything else is earned.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 33

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 1:44:37 AM

shivvy

Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

well finances are an important issue in a serious relationship, and absolutely should be discussed or negotiated prior to the start of something like a M/s relationship especially, i don't believe in the idea that a slave should look out for her own best interest (i.e. demanding knowledge of all financial matters, or keeping "a little something hidden away"). isn't that completely contrary to the whole idea of slavery in the first place? yes, there are great risks when one person becomes completely financially dependent on the other, and has no control over or say in the finances. however there are many risks attached to M/s relationships, that one along with all the others are things that should be carefully considered before making that leap.

i so agree with you.

i'm a slave in a 24/7 TPE relationship. i have a wee part time job, and all my wages go to my Master and HE controls all O/our finances. the only other money i get is my £16.50 a week child support, wot goes straight into my daughters savings account for when she is 18.

Master pays all the bills, and i really don't have nuffin to do with money at all. i just get my weekly allowence to pay for sweets and things for tink. Other than that, He pays for everything.

_____________________________

(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´
¸.•´¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 34

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 4:04:09 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I'm curious, for those of you who turn over everything to your Master, if you have um's, aren't you concerned about leaving something for them at the time of your death? This is why I would never dream of turning over assets (or anything that can be liquidated into an asset - home, retirement, life insurance) to another person.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to shivvy)

Post #: 35

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 6:43:09 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I'm curious, for those of you who turn over everything to your Master, if you have um's, aren't you concerned about leaving something for them at the time of your death? This is why I would never dream of turning over assets (or anything that can be liquidated into an asset - home, retirement, life insurance) to another person.

I have life insurance policies that will go to my um. I would assume you mean while he is a minor? I don't feel any obligation to leave him anything when he becomes an adult. As a minor my biggest concern was making sure his bio-dad doesn't get his hands on the life insurance money or my um will never see a dime. Which was a simple enough matter to take care of. I have no worries about my um, my owner takes far better care of him than his sperm donor father and if anything happened to me he would continue too. He still takes care of the kids of past relationships even though he is not the bio-dad. My owner takes his responsbility to children, elderly and animals to be for the rest of their lives. It is an ethical imperative for him.

The money issues and medical issues are handled by my owner's medical proxy and his attorney, my only duty is to call them. I won't be making any decisions for him but issues with me and money are handled.

.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 36

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 7:06:27 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

It my sincere belief that a responsible owner who will not let thieir property work will inform their sub and slave of the household finances even that sub/slave doesn't want to know.

A very good point has been raised: What if Master ends up in the hospital in a coma? Do you know how to access the money? Do you know how he would want it paid for? Medical care is not cheap. He won't be there to help you and you won't be able to help him if you don't know. Comas can last for years and years and life support isn't free.

It it entirely within the duty of the submissive and slave to know how to take care of the household funds with when the owner is incapable of doing so.

this is only within the submissive's or slave's duty IF the Dominant/Master has declared such. if the Master has declared that such things are none of her concern, then they are none of her concern. issues that you mention above, such as how to handle financial matters in the case of a sudden illness, can be handled in ways that do not involve the submissive or slave taking control of the finances. if my Master were suddenly to fall ill tomorrow, and was unable to work or even think properly, therefore unable to take care of the bill paying and such, he has already made arrangements for his accountant to manage the basic household finances, and a close relative to take care of the car note and insurance. as far as medical care for himself, that would also be handled by a close relative. under absolutely no circumstances would he wish me to take such matters into my hands.

If that is what he wishes, then that is what he wishes.

I can not understand it since there are times when people can't be contacted and decisions need to be made right now. If he is willing to take that risk, that is his gamble.

However, with my experiences working for medical professionals, I can not consider it a good idea since the one who, under most circumstances, best understands what the patient would want is the significant other (in this case slave) - not the parent, uncle, cousin, or best friend.

In these cases where a master wants his slave to have control over nothing, even in cases of dire emergency, a living will might be a good idea.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/8/2007 7:15:18 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 37

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 7:35:38 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I would assume you mean while he is a minor?

No I mean at the time of death, regardless of my children's ages. I would like to think that I can leave something behind that will make my kids's lives a bit easier, regardless of their ages at the time of my death. My children, even as adults (as they are now), remain my priority as they are not yet financially independent (college students). Even when they are independent, I'd like to leave something to them.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 38

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 7:44:32 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I would assume you mean while he is a minor?

No I mean at the time of death, regardless of my children's ages. I would like to think that I can leave something behind that will make my kids's lives a bit easier, regardless of their ages at the time of my death. My children, even as adults (as they are now), remain my priority as they are not yet financially independent (college students). Even when they are independent, I'd like to leave something to them.

Well you can take solace in the fact that at your passing I will be sure to inform them of your love of anal. I think that will be leaving them something more improtant than wealth.

_____________________________

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 39

RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) - 6/8/2007 7:46:08 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I would assume you mean while he is a minor?

No I mean at the time of death, regardless of my children's ages. I would like to think that I can leave something behind that will make my kids's lives a bit easier, regardless of their ages at the time of my death. My children, even as adults (as they are now), remain my priority as they are not yet financially independent (college students). Even when they are independent, I'd like to leave something to them.

I understand that. It isn't something I feel obligated to do. I hope my parents spend every last dime they worked to earn. They raised us, sent us to private schools, sent us to college, provided for us and I know they sacrificed on things they wanted to do it. I hope they spend every last cent on enjoying life now that we are grown. I hope my son sees that and understands the sacrifice parents make and that there shouldn't be one red cent except perhaps money to put them in the ground when they go.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 40

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