MemphisDsCouple
Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline
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Ok, you want to talk about limits. I'll give you a little feedback there because you seem to be a thoughtful person. And, I think you've already discovered for yourself the concept(s) I'm going to address and try to clarify a little. I think (at least I hope - since I like the personality you've displayed in your writing) you're going to continue to grow and evolve your thinking about limits. Sooooo:
What Is This "Limits" Thing?
Webster's Online ( http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=limit ) teaches us that a limit is: "1 a : something that bounds, restrains, or confines", and; "5 : a prescribed maximum or minimum amount". Webster also refers us to the definition of "3 : LIMITATION" (found here: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=limitation ), which in turn refers us to "3 : something that limits : RESTRAINT" where Webster teaches that "restraint" means, "1 a : an act of restraining : the state of being restrained b (1) : a means of restraining : a restraining force or influence (2) : a device that restricts movement (found here: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=restraint ).
So, what can we learn from the preceding formalistic research of the question I posed, namely: What is this "limits" thing? It seems clear that "limits" are a restraint of the dominant by the submissive. That's what they are. That's what they are about. Is that really what you want to do as a submissive? Moreover, do you really want to submit to a man who will allow you to restrain him? Is this the kind of man you want?
I conclude that once "limits" are stated, demanded and/or negotiated, and a clear agreement is made between the (so-called) dominant and the (so-called) submissive, that from that point forward, the submissive controls the encounter and/or the relationship. The submissive has become the dominant, at the very least, in respect to those "limits". The submissive has "restrained" the dominant. After the submissive has put these restraints on the dominant, it makes no difference whether the dominant ever intended to go there or not, whether the dominant ever intended to, or ever would, engage in those activities from which he has now been formally restrained by the submissive. The really important point here to the relationship is that the submissive has restrained the dominant.
Stated in short form, the submissive, by use of limits, has flipped the roles of the two people in the relationship (or play session even). The submissive has become the controlling dominant and the dominant, if he is willing to continue under this restraint, has become the controlled submissive at least insofar as the limits are concerned.
Do you see this as self-destructive to the relationship? I do. Do you see limits as destructive to the magic and the very soul of the d/s dynamic? I do.
Personally, I would further conclude that the very existence of the submissive's control over limits has now flipped the entire relationship. Others may not make that leap. Others may somehow in their minds create two different areas of the relationship, one area in which the dominant has control of the submissive and the relationship, and another area (the limits area) in which the submissive has control of the dominant and the relationship. Then, they might say that since the majority of their activities fall under the dominant's control - then the dominant is in control. To me, that is too complicated. I can not function in that. To me, it smacks of contradiction, complication and insincerity. Shrug. But to each his or her own.
Now, I do understand that from a submissive's pov that going limitless is a scary proposition. But, I believe there is another way to skin this cat, so to speak. There is an alternative approach. I will write about that alternative in the future. Until then, I hope I have provided food for thought about "limits", and answered the question I posed: What is this "limits" thing?
Postscript:
You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)
B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)
quote:
ORIGINAL: cheekybottom
And that is quite okay EmeraldSlave2 in fact I would enjoy steering this forum subject away from pain and simply focus on ones Hard limits that potentially turn into push able ones to the possibility of them not existing at all.
Again I will quote myself: quote:
those that make you return, for whatever reason, be grateful to them. Worry instead about the others who give you compliant comforts that keep you from pushing limits left untested. Friends are enemies sometimes, and enemy’s friends. Yes; you are your worst enemy. Be not afraid of what you don’t know, but fear instead the crippling disease of stagnation.
Do you want to be pushed? Have you been pushed? What do you fear and where do you wish it to take you?
If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll get what you’ve always gotten. ~Anon
~d~
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I trust You to hurt me - 
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