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RE: Testing - 6/15/2007 6:24:34 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Of course sometimes a sub will test because the dominant isn't domming. Claiming to be a dominant, giving rules but never enforcing them or even noticing if they're being followed or not, is not the same as actually being dominant.

Interesting point; it sums up nicely what I've been rolling around in my head about how someone needs to bump up against a boundary to know it is there.

The flip side of testing to find boundaries can be the dom shoving back when the boundaries are approached. An analogy might be the electronic dog collars that zap the dog when he gets to the invisible boundary -- the dog isn't testing anything, but in the normal course of running around he learns where the boundaries are.

Perhaps it is enough for the dominant to describe the boundaries and then submissives (except those who are acting out) will settle in and be happy as clams; IMO there also needs to be some feedback either through some kind of testing or dominants proactively zapping them as they get close in order for the boundary to really sink in.


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(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Testing - 6/15/2007 6:25:28 AM   
viperess


Posts: 290
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings,
Yes claiming to be a Master or Dom does not make it so just as claiming to be a slave or sub does not make you one. It is all in the mindset of how you truely live your life. i have to agree with all LA has said throughout this thread. If someone is not mature enough to be able to sit down and say...this is how i feel about what is happening please help me instead of acting in a manner that a child would then maybe they need to question if they are truely ready to be committed to another. Sorry but i see this type action no better than topping from the bottom which hey i guess if that is your kink more power to you but just make sure your partner in crime knows this is how you are.

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(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Testing - 6/15/2007 7:15:49 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		All this is well and good,to be honest most slaves/subs will test that defined boundary in their own way oh it may be so subtle that you may not notice but the testing is there.When one comes to us for a visit to test the waters they are told what is expected,no limits  or boundary's except those we impose on ourselfs.They live perhaps 6 weeks and then we sit down to discuss the possibilties.If they believe they can accept our rules of the house then we can continue if not then they are off on their journey again rich in some training and we all enjoyed the encounter...bounty

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Testing - 6/15/2007 8:57:03 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

They are insecure, and they want to be made to feel secure.  But they can't verbalize what they want, so they act out.

And then justify it by saying they were just testing the other person- rather than admitting their own issues.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_661659/mpage_1/key_testing/tm.htm#661665
testing


Well said and very accurate.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Testing - 6/16/2007 2:05:51 AM   
DarkDreams123


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings rexfernnell,

I really can't imagine a D/s or M/s relationship where the sub/slave isn't going to test the Dominant at least sometimes. Perhaps this is just a lack of imagination on my part.

Testing (or "pushing" or what have you) is really just human nature. It is reassuring for a sub/slave to find the boundaries you have set for her. This affords you an opportunity to exercise your dominance. Don't see it as entirely negative.

However, as has been mentioned above, if this testing happens with any degree of regularity, it may indicate some kind of deeper problem.

You didn't mention how long you have been in this relationship. I would expect more testing by the sub/slave in the beginning of the relationship and then have it taper off as she becomes more secure.

-DarkDreams

(in reply to rexfernnell)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Testing - 6/17/2007 5:29:56 PM   
frazzle40


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		I wouldnt say i've consciously 'tested' someone, but i have occasionally pushed to see if He would do anything.     If i get away with it once, i'll admit to trying again, if i still get zero response i know He's not for me. 
I need and want the control, if i can do as i please with no reprucussions, whos in control?

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Testing - 6/17/2007 5:57:21 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle40
I wouldnt say i've consciously 'tested' someone, but i have occasionally pushed to see if He would do anything.     If i get away with it once, i'll admit to trying again, if i still get zero response i know He's not for me. 
I need and want the control, if i can do as i please with no reprucussions, whos in control?

I usually response to this by asking if you decide to push, who is a submissive?

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to frazzle40)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Testing - 6/17/2007 6:17:20 PM   
frazzle40


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		*smiles*             So i should accept their word for the fact they are Dominant?.  If i can do as i please, when i please, they are not.            It's not testing as such, it subtle communication to see if compatable.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Testing - 6/17/2007 8:17:10 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You shouldn't SAY you accept their word and then not accept it.

If you agree to submit and then intentionally NOT submit, then it is YOU who have been dishonorable and failed.

If you are not sure, then you shouldn't say you will submit. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to frazzle40)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Testing - 6/18/2007 8:25:47 PM   
annare


Posts: 37
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Master Jon-Mark,

    i think the type of women/men that exhibit this type of behavior will do so regardless of the context of the relationship. D/s, M/s, vanilla, there are manipulative people in this world who try to cope with their own insecurities by "testing" Your reactions. Is it annoying? Absolutely... Is it contrary to a submissive's station? Without question... However, it takes a lot of time and in my case counseling to work through something like that. i don't believe that ALL submissives do it... and i don't even know that i believe that those that do are even aware of their own actions... However, if You find one that You believe is worth fighting for, i know that it can be overcome. With enough time and positive reinforcement, she will realize that You do know what is best for her and her testing will not be tolerated nor is it necessary.

in service,
annare

(in reply to rexfernnell)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Testing - 6/18/2007 10:32:47 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		 I completely agree with the sentiment that testing a Dom suggests that there is lack of communication. When i get that urge to test if i stop and examine it i can usually recognize that i am feeling a bit lost and need to express this to Him. However i find communicating my needs very hard. It is something we are working on and i would hope that eventually i would never feel the need to test Him but i personally believe it is quite natural to be uncertain in the beginning of things. I also don't feel like subs who test on purpose should be judged as simply manipulative. I would consider it perhaps a different form of submision then that which i would like to give but who ever said different is wrong? As long as it works in the dynamic.

I guess i'm just trying to say that communication is key but not always perfectly easy especially to those who are new to all of this. Am i just defending myself because i'm new? perhaps. lol

Btw i have found that the more i am reminded of who's in charge without having to push the less i feel the desire to push so i do believe it goes both ways. I always used to feel that i had to push Doms in order to feel their power but i have felt a lot less like that recently. I think that speaks both to my insecurities and the Doms i have talked to in the past and present.

But there i go again, always playing the middle ground. I tend to like to look at both sides of the argument.

~charlotte


(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Testing - 6/19/2007 7:41:59 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12
. I also don't feel like subs who test on purpose should be judged as simply manipulative. I would consider it perhaps a different form of submision then that which i would like to give but who ever said different is wrong? As long as it works in the dynamic.

It's not submission at all- it's insecure manipulative acting out.

I agree that it doesn't mean the person is a bad person or that the relationship is doomed- very often it is exactly showing that there's a problem and it needs to be addressed directly.

But don't sugarcoat it or try and euphemize it to take away the sting of what it is.

quote:

Btw i have found that the more i am reminded of who's in charge without having to push the less i feel the desire to push so i do believe it goes both ways. I always used to feel that i had to push Doms in order to feel their power but i have felt a lot less like that recently. I think that speaks both to my insecurities and the Doms i have talked to in the past and present.

The problem is that this can set up a dynamic in the relationship where the sub is always passive and places the blame of "not feeling submissive enough" on the dom not being "inspiring enough."  Ideally, everyone is working and pacing withe achother so that you support and give and take and no one is always the passive one.  Ultimately, it must come from within both of you.

But I AM glad that you are becoming more secure and realizing you can just relax and let go in the dynamic (if it's a positive healthy one) rather than always trying to force it out. 


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to charlotte12)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Testing - 6/19/2007 7:11:47 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


But I AM glad that you are becoming more secure and realizing you can just relax and let go in the dynamic (if it's a positive healthy one) rather than always trying to force it out. 



Playing devil's advocate here, what if the reason she can now just let go and relax in the dynamic because she's now picking men who are stronger in their dominance? If so, then maybe the testing is simply much subtler. Instead of disobeying to see if he would notice, he proactively sees her having difficulty and raises an eyebrow or sits her down for a serious discussion on the problem.

I tend to think of d/s as ballroom dancing. Only one can lead and without a strong lead, the other person will stumble and step on toes simply because she doesn't know where to go from moment to moment.

Myself, I can't submit in a vacuum. I need the give and take, both of us strong and confident in our roles.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Testing - 6/19/2007 7:24:50 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
It's not submission at all- it's insecure manipulative acting out.

I agree that it doesn't mean the person is a bad person or that the relationship is doomed- very often it is exactly showing that there's a problem and it needs to be addressed directly.

But don't sugarcoat it or try and euphemize it to take away the sting of what it is.


You're absolutely right and thanks for pointing out that what i said came across like that. I was trying to make the distinction between bratty subs who's Master enjoy taming them and subs who don't do this. Actual disobedience done with the knowledge that the Master will not in any way be pleased but done anyway to get something out of him is indeed manipulative and means that there is a fundamental problem in the relationship that needs to be discussed.

quote:

Btw i have found that the more i am reminded of who's in charge without having to push the less i feel the desire to push so i do believe it goes both ways. I always used to feel that i had to push Doms in order to feel their power but i have felt a lot less like that recently. I think that speaks both to my insecurities and the Doms i have talked to in the past and present.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
The problem is that this can set up a dynamic in the relationship where the sub is always passive and places the blame of "not feeling submissive enough" on the dom not being "inspiring enough."  Ideally, everyone is working and pacing withe achother so that you support and give and take and no one is always the passive one.  Ultimately, it must come from within both of you.

But I AM glad that you are becoming more secure and realizing you can just relax and let go in the dynamic (if it's a positive healthy one) rather than always trying to force it out. 



Again, you've hit the nail on the head. I was not trying to say that it's all on the Dom if the submissive is not feeling submissive particularily if he or she is still learning. While i do believe that Dominance and submission can come very naturally to some it is still something that can take a while to understand and actually express is a full and healthy manner. Add to that also learning about another person and you've got quite a journey ahead of you. Oh so exciting :) I was just trying to say that i am finally realizing that submission is in NO way passive and it has been a wonderful realization.

PS. i'm not sure i figured out all the quotes correctly in this post. I just wanted to respond since in the brief time i have been here i have found your posts to be most insightful and they tend to make me think so thank you :)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Testing - 8/16/2008 10:56:19 PM   
rexfernnell


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		I do not test  My slave if they say they are one way I belive them until they show Me other wise.  I hate testing some much I will NEVER  Dom again. and  not everyone test there are some slave/subs that do not

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Testing - 8/17/2008 6:39:38 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You shouldn't SAY you accept their word and then not accept it.

If you agree to submit and then intentionally NOT submit, then it is YOU who have been dishonorable and failed.

If you are not sure, then you shouldn't say you will submit. 


Except that frequently this happens before someone agrees to submit. The testing occurs in the dating phase. Does he keep his word, show up on time? If not I've tested him and decided he isn't a good dominant. If he doesn't call me on me being late and not bothering to call and tell him, then again I'll decide he isn't compatible.

In order to know if his word matches his actions, I need to see him in action, not just take his word for it. And this happens before I agree to submit.

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Testing - 8/17/2008 6:41:08 PM   
Sandyshores29718


Posts: 343
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

I do not test anyone. Before I play or commit myself to anyone Im sure of them and their skill. To test my Love would be disrespectful to him...IMO

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Testing - 8/17/2008 6:48:57 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		I tested a little bit in the start of our relationship. I'll quickly admit it, Though He will quickly admit the same. But it wasent like "pushing boundries" or things like that it was more like...

me: "So I was at the gay rally this week and...Oh? yeah the gay rally, i have a alot of gay friends...do you?" (que subtle test of his open mindedness on the subject of equality. sexuality, and other bits)

Him: "yeah I have a few gay friends, I was resently talking with my lesbian friend about the pro choice debate" (que test for me on my ideas about birth control and other such things)

So, yeah....thats how i test people.

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(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Testing - 8/17/2008 8:18:45 PM   
rexfernnell


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		ok If  you seat back and a Dom lies to you and you see He is not right for you that is not testing.testing  to Me is doing something to  see if you can get the reaction you want.it is a form of control that some subs/slave have other their Doms.all have their own reason for doing it. but it dose"t change that fact that deep down  on some level maybe  for a little while they wash to run things.most I have met say  they only do it because.  but they do not say they do not do it  even the people here.is   like brattys that  say that they are brats and do not explain I have  respect for them for being up front about being who and what they are.so if you test then just be up front about it. do not have it just seeek up on your Dom.anyway I give up no  more Doming for Me.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Testing - 8/17/2008 8:34:11 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Test them back,What's good for the goose serves the gander.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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