Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave

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Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 4:54:37 PM

curiouscity

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline

i am new to the scene and to collarme and i've been reading through profiles and i have seen a lot of Dommes who say that there is a difference between a sub and a slave.
i am curious to know what that difference is.
Thank You to all the wonderful Dommes who may read/answer this question.

Post #: 1

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 5:03:50 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

There will be lots of conflicting answers as you can see from this link.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_668519/mpage_1/key_sub%2Cslave/tm.htm

Dont be in too much of a hurry to label yourself. I dont see a vast difference between the two terms, either way you are agreeing to serve somebody. No opinion is right or wrong for it is simply that, an opinion.

(in reply to curiouscity)

Post #: 2

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 5:19:26 PM

DominicsJoy

Posts: 53
Joined: 8/28/2004
Status: offline

The definition, like most things is open to interpretation and varies from person to person. Before meeting Master I veiwed myself as a submissive, Master defines me as a slave. I accept his definition, because as a slave to him I still retain many freedoms that other "slaves" might not enjoy under others. The key to remember is communication. If you do not sit down and discuss expectations, definitions and needs then both of you are in for many surprises.

I for one am valued highly as a slave in this lifestyle, and because Master is wise enough to realize that I do not challenge his authority, he has no problem with me having a voice and using my mind. Many Dominants do have this difficulty and therefore I would highly suggest getting clarification on your expected role in the relationship and just how much freedom to expect. Respect and communication will assist you in having a great relationship that will be fullfilling and enjoyable for both parties instead of one that is full of frustration and heartache.

Good luck to you in your search.

Master's girl- joy

(in reply to curiouscity)

Post #: 3

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 7:47:48 PM

curiouscity

Posts: 4
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline

Thank you very much for your answer. I asked because I have seen several profiles where Dommes say they want a slave, not a sub, and that there is a difference.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 4

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 7:53:49 PM

Laura

Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

I think of them as different things. A sub is looking for D/s. A slave is not looking for D/s, instead they want S & M. That's why we have BDSM. To my thinking a sub is into the B and D aspects and a slave is into the S and M aspects.

I prefer BD so I look for a sub male. I don't read profiles for those who call themselves slaves. It's not my kink.

It isn't all black and white of course. There are shades of grey as spanking is bringing pain and yet it is something I would do. Subs may enjoy some SM and slaves may want B along with the SM. The labels are a guide to what you are looking for overall.

< Message edited by Laura -- 6/13/2007 7:56:37 PM >

_____________________________

Bait & Switch - Adult column

(in reply to curiouscity)

Post #: 5

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 7:58:58 PM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

I identify as a slave for reasons personal to myself. None of the things talked about above are why i identify as a slave. So you see, there are many differing points of view on this...I am interested to see what responses you receive.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to Laura)

Post #: 6

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 8:01:08 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I use the terms as follows:

Bottom: physical sensations or activities as the receiver

Sub: submits to the authority of another for a specific amount of time or for a specific set of activities; requires an actual submissive state of mind

Slave: works to make the mundane life of an owner easier for an unspecified or 24/7 period of time; does not require an actual submissive state of mind but does require obedience and putting another person first in their priorities

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to curiouscity)

Post #: 7

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 10:39:52 PM

WyckedMystress

Posts: 118
Joined: 6/24/2005
Status: offline

I agree with tammyjo - to Me a sub seeks submission for a time or a period of activities or play - a slave gives him/herself completely for the continuous enjoyment of the Owner.

Everyone has their different opinion of what a sub or slave is - as you can see by these posts. I wouldnt limit your search to only those seeking subs because what you seek may be what someone else calls a slave (by their definition)

Goodluck with your journey

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 8

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 10:57:20 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

It would be nice if there was a Book of Rules for BDSM. Some people think there must be, since others are always offering definitions as though they are set in concrete. But the truth is that different people interpret these terms in different ways. Rather than asking the Board about the difference, you might find it more enlightening to use it as an opening gambit in a discussion with those who define themselves that way. Because you will likely get as many answers as there are slaves/submissives, and in the process find out much how those individuals tick. Have fun!
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to WyckedMystress)

Post #: 9

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/13/2007 11:27:36 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

All of our terms become malleable on the net. That includes the 'kinkosphere.' D/s, M/s and almost all of our alphabet soup here is interpreted in any number of ways. Simply put, I think it is the following:

BDSM are fetishes often occuring within play.

D/s is about the connection between people and the scene...one dominates and one submits for the pleasure, usually found in the kinky sexual fetishes. Most of those are found in BDSM.

M/s is an affair of collared-ownership and service, yielding absolute obedience and offers the same pleasures but within the traditional 24/7 live-in relationship. I know...with the net it seems 24/7 live-in is no longer required. That's up to you.

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 10

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 2:47:02 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

i feel its entirely possible to be D/s 24/7, just as it is to be a slave 24/7. Either way is just how you identify yourself and neither limits the length a relationship will last. A rule book would be nice but impossible to write, as everyone sees everything different ( Amen for that ) Try reading the following link, then treat it as a guide, rather than as Gospel.

http://www.castlerealm.com/

i hope this helps you.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 11

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 7:47:52 AM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

I have met submissives who told me they define themselves as submissives because they want to give all of themselves to someone forever... and I have met slaves who told me that they call themselves slaves because they want to give all of themselves to someone forever. The meanings overlap for many, and while most people have a definition of each in their minds, there is no universal rule to follow.

For me, a slave is someone who is considered property... be it for a short period of time or forever. Someone who has a mindset to be proprty in an owner's eyes.... who makes himself avaialable full-time to provide for the needs of his Owner. There may be a deep emotional connection... but the Mistress/slave relationship (to me) takes on a colder feel than a relationship of Mistress/submissive.

To me a submissive is one who wants to surrender control to another, but wants more of a vanilla relationship to go with it.

Many male slaves I have communicated with seem to de-value themselves as human beings... feeling that they are of little worth without a woman to serve, be humilated by, etc.

These are not "The" definitions, simply my own examples, and findings I have discovered in dealing with males of both slave and submissive orientation. I tend to want a male with a "submissive" mindset according to my definitions.... regardless of what he calls himself.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 12

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 7:53:10 AM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

Well i'm not a Dom/Domme, (yet) but what the hey.

A submissive will clean your toilet adoringly with the best products available

If it's not good enough, they will lovingly start all over

A slave will clean your toilet adoringly with their tongue

If it's not good enough, they will lovingly be your toilet

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to curiouscity)

Post #: 13

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 8:11:38 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart
It would be nice if there was a Book of Rules for BDSM

Oh no, don't wish that upon us

. It's bad enough when the all-knowing ones attempt to bully or belittle others into doing things the way their imaginary handbook says they should be done. If they ever actually get one carved into stone, the rest of us would then be forced to conform to doing things their way

....lol....slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 14

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 8:41:45 AM

YesMistressIrish

Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Laura

I think of them as different things. A sub is looking for D/s. A slave is not looking for D/s, instead they want S & M. That's why we have BDSM. To my thinking a sub is into the B and D aspects and a slave is into the S and M aspects.

I disagree with the above.
My understanding and experience:
Slave: D/s to the max. Knows he is born to serve in any way the domme asks or needs, and cannot say no or be in a power struggle with his domme. This can be for whatever time is specified. And, a slave is not *looking for bdsm. They long to serve in *any* way their Mistress wishes. They can have vanilla in the outside world, and high self esteem, intelligent, high paying job, many responsibilities at work, etc, or be more like a total slave in the old sense, shackled, caged, etc. Slave is in the heart, a NEED to be owned and controlled by One. She sets the rules, and may listen to his suggestions, his knowledge, and make her choices on her own.

Sub: longs to serve, however they like to be able to set some ground rules, may serve for a time once a week, etc, and have a different mind-set.

However, some slaves I have connected with are really subs, and some of the subs are really slaves at heart, they just aren't aware of it.

All of this can restrict us if we get too needy of definitions, or rules. People can be complex.

Hope the above helps.
Miss Irish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
"The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." - Saint Augustine

"A man is judged by what he gives not by what he is capable of giving"

< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 6/14/2007 8:49:02 AM >

(in reply to Laura)

Post #: 15

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 9:20:59 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Why not just tell us what we are Maam........ i for one would never dare argue but politely say " yes MistressIrish "... :)

(in reply to YesMistressIrish)

Post #: 16

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 9:22:04 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Slaves are property.

Subs are volunteers.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 17

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 9:35:05 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

I think being submissive is a personality trait that you have or don't have. You are not a slave unless someone makes you their slave. When I say makes you a slave, I don't mean forces you to become a slave. I think slavery in the context of a D/s relationship is a evolutionary process that happens after a dominant and a submissive agree to take it to that level. After that agreement is made and a submissive agrees to be seen and treated as property, they become a slave.

One way that I like to look at it is that I am a slave trader whose only merchandise is myself. I meet and talk with different buyers until one of them agrees to my price, and I agree to theirs. When that transaction happens, I no longer belong to myself, I belong to the buyer.

(in reply to YesMistressIrish)

Post #: 18

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 9:41:43 AM

peepeegirl5

Posts: 214
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline

While I don't believe in the concept of "Sexual Perversions," there's much Sexual Corruption (i.e. failure to recognize one's true role) around. You seem to have recognized your true role.

Blessing and intense sexual bliss on all women and males who recognize their true role.

_____________________________

"If we value so highly the dignity of life, how can we not also value the dignity of death? No death may be called futile." - Yukio Mishima

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 19

RE: Clarification please - Sub Vs. Slave - 6/14/2007 10:16:51 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I think being submissive is a personality trait that you have or don't have. You are not a slave unless someone makes you their slave. When I say makes you a slave, I don't mean forces you to become a slave. I think slavery in the context of a D/s relationship is a evolutionary process that happens after a dominant and a submissive agree to take it to that level. After that agreement is made and a submissive agrees to be seen and treated as property, they become a slave.

One way that I like to look at it is that I am a slave trader whose only merchandise is myself. I meet and talk with different buyers until one of them agrees to my price, and I agree to theirs. When that transaction happens, I no longer belong to myself, I belong to the buyer.

That's a very interesting way to look at it.

For me, I agree that submission is a personality trait but I also see it as submitting to someone else's will or rules or whatever. I also think it is not easy or necessarily health for someone to be submissive at all time that's why I call submissive time-limited.

I see a slave as more a relationship dynamic. My best slaves were not submissive all the time nor would I want them to be. They knew their duties and they knew when submission to me was required or expected. The rest of the time they were acting in accord to what I wanted or with me in their minds but certainly not submissive to me at that moment. (hope that made sense)

Le me give an example. I went to a private club for a reading and book signing. While I changed my clothes, Fox set things up and was able to tell the host's slave what I'd want to drink and where I'd want to do the reading proper. We didn't discuss it he simply knew it was his job to make this appearance as simple and easy to me as possible. He knew me well enough after seven years and many similar events to make these decisions. I think that when one being submissive that decision making is near impossible.

Again this is entirely how the terms are used in my house. Unless someone asked for my opinion I would not tell someone they are a slave or a sub or a bottom. Ask me, you get my opinion.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 20

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