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RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 11:47:12 AM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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One bad thing about older cars; finding parts for some of them.

A guy backed into my Olds, and the body shop told me it'd run around $200-300 bucks for ONE headlight assembly.

I found one at a salvage yard the next day for well under $100, fortuneately.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 41

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 12:45:41 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

I drive a '97 Dodge Caravan. One of my reasons for purchasing it was the fact that it's a very common vehicle used in the taxi industry (check your local taxi company...they usually have inexpensive vehicles that they know can/will be driven hard, and they can squeeze 600,000 km [360,000 mi] out of).
Having said that, don't only look at "new car payments". With a new car, the scheduled maintenance can easily add another 30% plus to costs, for their bullshit checks & inspections (do the math. That $15,000 vehicle over 5 yrs can add another $8,000 to the purchase price, depending on the financial instution you use). If annual repairs on your beater are only a fraction of what payments (plus new car insurance) would be, then keep the pile of crap. I've had my $4,000 van for 2 years (plus $300 in repairs). It's already paid for itself.
Also, ask a garage mechanic (the grease monkey that actually twists wrenches) what he thinks of the vehicle you intend on purchasing. If he starts shouting a string of obscenities at you and starts throwing wrenches, you better reconsider your purchase. There are vehicles on the road that take 2 hours labour just to change a sparkplug or light bulb.
Something else to consider...There are what's called "interference" and "non interference" engines. Most vehicles use a timing belt (instead of a chain) to connect the crankshaft to the valvetrain. In an "interference" engine, if the timing belt breaks, the pistons slam the engine valves, causing a huge repair bill (thousands). Timing belts are normally good for about 70,000 miles. On a used vehicle, you can't tell if the belt's ever been changed, so you could get into a real kettle of fish (you could also get a mechanic to inspect/change it).
Body is another factor, because rust can cause you to fail a safety inspection, create mechanical breakdown, and repairs can be astronomical. For the price, whether new or used, a reputable rustproofing company like Rust Check, is worth the $100/yr.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 42

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 12:57:22 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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That's some very good points, Mark. Any easy way of knowing ahead of time if a particular car/engine is one of the interference types?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 43

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:05:44 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkMinette
Timing belts are normally good for about 70,000 miles. On a used vehicle, you can't tell if the belt's ever been changed, so you could get into a real kettle of fish

Normally? Is that a manufactures note? My old Jeep still had it's orginial belt at 198k, and the Monte I'm driving now didnt blow until 170k. But they are 6 cyls not a 4.

I'm not familiar with the used Taxi remarketing, but I am real familiar with the rental remarketing. Right now they are taking in a lot of risk units, some have their own
sales programs after they meet their $ quota for the company (usually around 50k
for a risk) ~ lease returns come back under 30k. Enterprise is one that markets
many used units through their web site. The car's will not be in ~new~ condition,
but have been mechanically maintained.

Katy, I checked for a Honda for you but they have none locally. :>(

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 44

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:07:03 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

Talk to a mechanic. One who works for an "all brands" garage, not a dealership. You could tell him you're going car hunting, and ask him if he would mind you bothering him for the next few days (also ask him what brand of beer he drinks...the best investment you'll ever make). This way, all you have to do, is call him with the year/model and get an honest opinion. The case of beer or box of steaks for sage advice, can go a long way.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 45

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:12:14 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

Quivver, I'm NOT saying to buy a taxi. Just buy what they buy. They drive the balls off their cars, so they need the best bang for their buck.
Also, I don't know if your Jeep has a belt or chain, or an interference/non-interference engine. If it has a belt and an interference engine, you're really pushing the envelope. Find out from a garage, and take the appropriate action. Lots of good vehicles go to an early grave.

< Message edited by MarkMinette -- 6/16/2007 1:13:55 PM >

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 46

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:18:07 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

Not to mention the fact that in winter, taxis run constantly, in order to keep the passenger compartment warm for driver & fares. It's not unusual for a taxi to drive/idle 24/7. That's gotta say something.

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 47

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:19:43 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkMinette
Timing belts are normally good for about 70,000 miles. On a used vehicle, you can't tell if the belt's ever been changed, so you could get into a real kettle of fish

Normally? Is that a manufactures note? My old Jeep still had it's orginial belt at 198k, and the Monte I'm driving now didnt blow until 170k.

Yes, that's a manufacturer's suggested service.

It's not a good idea to let your timing belt or chain "blow". In a lot of cases, a timing belt letting go will make your engine into a big giant paper weight. It's a maintenance item that can save you the cost of a new engine.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 48

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:25:17 PM

QuietlySeeking

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkMinette

I drive a '97 Dodge Caravan. One of my reasons for purchasing it was the fact that it's a very common vehicle used in the taxi industry (check your local taxi company...they usually have inexpensive vehicles that they know can/will be driven hard, and they can squeeze 600,000 km [360,000 mi] out of).
Having said that, don't only look at "new car payments". With a new car, the scheduled maintenance can easily add another 30% plus to costs, for their bullshit checks & inspections (do the math. That $15,000 vehicle over 5 yrs can add another $8,000 to the purchase price, depending on the financial instution you use). If annual repairs on your beater are only a fraction of what payments (plus new car insurance) would be, then keep the pile of crap. I've had my $4,000 van for 2 years (plus $300 in repairs). It's already paid for itself.
Also, ask a garage mechanic (the grease monkey that actually twists wrenches) what he thinks of the vehicle you intend on purchasing. If he starts shouting a string of obscenities at you and starts throwing wrenches, you better reconsider your purchase. There are vehicles on the road that take 2 hours labour just to change a sparkplug or light bulb.
Something else to consider...There are what's called "interference" and "non interference" engines. Most vehicles use a timing belt (instead of a chain) to connect the crankshaft to the valvetrain. In an "interference" engine, if the timing belt breaks, the pistons slam the engine valves, causing a huge repair bill (thousands). Timing belts are normally good for about 70,000 miles. On a used vehicle, you can't tell if the belt's ever been changed, so you could get into a real kettle of fish (you could also get a mechanic to inspect/change it).
Body is another factor, because rust can cause you to fail a safety inspection, create mechanical breakdown, and repairs can be astronomical. For the price, whether new or used, a reputable rustproofing company like Rust Check, is worth the $100/yr.

Remember, however, that most of those 2 hour spark plug engines have 100,000 mile spark plugs, so the job may cost you $500, but you only do it every 7-10 years.

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 49

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:29:46 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkMinette

Quivver, I'm NOT saying to buy a taxi. Just buy what they buy. They drive the balls off their cars, so they need the best bang for their buck.

Couldnt agree more.... and right now the market is flooded with Caravans.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 50

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 1:30:47 PM

QuietlySeeking

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

My dad always used to say that if you buy a car, you should get 10,000 miles for every $1000 you spend. He also put the caveat that maintenance items like tires, brakes, shocks, etc, don't get included in that figure. I've got a 1995 Ford Ranger XLT with 187k miles with about $12.5k invested. I'll keep running it until the engine gives out....and then I'll consider replacing the engine; I'd still be money ahead.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 51

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 2:08:53 PM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A Civic is probably more in my price range. And you are correct, they aren't the tiny cars they were in the 70's.

That's a double-edged sword, though... they're not the CHEAP cars they were in the 70's, either! Even a couple of years ago, i would have been shocked if someone had told me you could option up a Civic to over twenty-five grand... it just seems wrong.

(PSST! Mazda 3!

)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

One bad thing about older cars; finding parts for some of them.

A guy backed into my Olds, and the body shop told me it'd run around $200-300 bucks for ONE headlight assembly.

I found one at a salvage yard the next day for well under $100, fortuneately.

Yah, but... really new models can be pretty scarce on the ground at salvage yards, and you might have HAD to pay three bills to the stealership for the headlight assembly

It's still a lot cheaper to buy a whole car than to buy one piece-by-piece.

Now when you get to the point where you have to MAKE replacement parts for your car (i was talking to a guy last fall who owned a 1930 Maxwell sedan... talk about getting a blank look from the kids at Auto Zone)... then you REALLY have to like it!

...dave

< Message edited by petdave -- 6/16/2007 2:53:41 PM >

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 52

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 2:14:06 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

petdave is right. Hondas are a good car, but are overpriced for what you get. Jeep products are now the same way. I've never really heard anything bad about Hyundai. Cheap & effective. Personally, my Suzuki Swift started to "self destruct" at 70,000 kms, and I was fortunate enough to get smoked by a large truck, putting it out of it's misery

.

< Message edited by MarkMinette -- 6/16/2007 2:16:00 PM >

(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 53

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 2:45:27 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

True enough, guys. The Olds is a very solid car, and I've considered having the one or two dings smoothed, get it painted, and hang on to it for a few more years. I know both of the previous owners very well, and they both took superb care of it.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 54

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 2:48:55 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

Level, being from Texas, you don't have to deal with winter & road salt. When I was in Fort Knox, KY, there were many cars 30 yrs old and older. Drive it till it pukes.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 55

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 3:18:55 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

When the cost of repair is more than what its worth. Unless of course your broke, then you do what you gotta do.

~Lashra

Lash,
A variation on this could be - When the cost of repair exceeds the cost of replacement. If you can fix it for less then it cost to replace it then go ahead and call in the mechanics.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 56

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 3:30:33 PM

MarkMinette

Posts: 61
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

When the cost of repair is more than what its worth. Unless of course your broke, then you do what you gotta do.

~Lashra

Lash,
A variation on this could be - When the cost of repair exceeds the cost of replacement. If you can fix it for less then it cost to replace it then go ahead and call in the mechanics.

At this point, you have to assess the "cost of repair", at the "CAR'S VALUE TO YOU". This doesn't mean that you piss thousands into a piece of junk because your dad gave it to you, or some other emotional tie. Being your car, you should know most of the little "quirks" or problems that it has, and make a logical decision. If the engine is blown, are you going to fix it if you know that at 75 mph it jumps out of gear, or the heat or A/C doesn't work? When I buy a used vehicle, I ALWAYS take into account that I could also wind up paying $1,500 more for hidden problems. That way, I'm not disappointed or surprised. After all, used cars are usually sold for a reason, right?

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

Post #: 57

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 3:43:34 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

I used to buy used cars and loved working on them. Life got busy, and it was no longer workable for me.

Now I buy new cars because I dont want somebody else driving the good years off of them.

On the other hand, my Honda is a 2002 with 160k miles on it, so I do tend to drive cars into the ground,
push them into a field, and shoot them.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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(in reply to MarkMinette)

Post #: 58

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 4:20:51 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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Okay, here's another potential drawback for older vehicles. The gas mileage many of them get isn't very good. Of course, there are exceptions.......

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 59

RE: When to replace a car - 6/16/2007 4:27:17 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Okay, here's another potential drawback for older vehicles. The gas mileage many of them get isn't very good. Of course, there are exceptions.......

I have a 1991 Mazda Miata with 200,000 miles that I've owned for 11 years. It routinely gets between 32 and 35 miles per gallon even with the larger wheels that it has on it.

I've owned mostly Japanese cars since 1987 and my experience with them has been that they last a long time, they're reliable and they get good gas mileage.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 60

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