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RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/7/2005 2:55:33 PM

strikingamatch

Posts: 24
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Greetings striking, and welcome to the forum.

Firstly - such a brave first post!... Thank you.

Secondly, it is suggested that I am none of the types you mentioned. Do you believe their could be more? - are you open to thinking there could be something else other than those seven types?

Peace and Love

I am definitely open to the idea, that there might be other types of submissives. I am just wondering what those might be. Some members here have posted that their orientation is inborn, and that the circumstances of their life had no impact as to the choices they made.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 61

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/7/2005 3:11:21 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I would say that everything around us influences, but that doesn't make us what were are. A person is what they are. If a man is a man, yet raised only by women, makes him no less a man (Just my simple view)

I have never been abused, I come from a loving family, have never wanted for anything, yet have never felt the need for anything. I love every moment of life, even the painful events for they help me learn. I have no desperation because I am allowed to be free within my calling and within that which binds me. To cause distress would be counter productive and negative to myself and the people surrounding my life. I cannot give if I expect return, for that would not be honesty. In serving, It is not always what I may want - I do not always do nor give what I desire to - and I cannot be that which others desire because that would be a lie. I can be, what I am, which is myself.

When a person can accept me as myself, they will be aware of the imperfections. Then they are ready and open to help one to explore what lies within, to mould and bring it to the surface - this is as much of a sharing experience as it is a new one, every day.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 62

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/7/2005 3:13:50 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strikingamatch
I am definitely open to the idea, that there might be other types of submissives. I am just wondering what those might be. Some members here have posted that their orientation is inborn, and that the circumstances of their life had no impact as to the choices they made.

If I may ask, why bother with "types" at all?

I accept the need to understand but assert that it's easier to do that if you drop pre-fab categories and just get to know the person.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 63

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/8/2005 8:41:25 AM

subcheryl

Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strikingamatch

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

I can't say if it is inborn, but then again, I don't really categorize myself as submissive so much as property. I am most certainly submissive to my owner and there are others who touch that chord in me, but I don't think its necessarily inherent in my nature. We have a strongly service oriented relationship and I do find peace in this dynamic...but I think because its all encompassing and fills all of my needs rather than solely because he is dominant and I am submissive to him.

<snip>

best regards,
fate

I think that a service-oriented submissive is a class 7 submissive, where she finds fulfilment from giving of herself to others. What do you think?

Looking back at this sentence, I note that it sounds really patronising, as if I have fully and adequately judged your personality. Please be assured that I don't feel that way at all.

I didn't find the list all that insulting, honestly there are people out there who do fit into those catergories, rather loosely, but some thread does exsist. I personally fit in to catergory 7. I have most of my life esp. in my family life as a child. Then as an adult, due to some wrong choices, was forced more or less to be the dominate personality in my relationship with my husband, so after 16 yrs of marriage and 4 children later, find myself being both mom and dad to the boys, and trying to figure out what truely would make me happy and what was missing in my personal life with men, I discovered through reading here and also in Castlerealm that I was submissive in nature and all along I was going against my true grain, so to speak. I enjoy doing for others, I much perfer to shop for other people than myself, I hate to buy things for myself, I find it more satisfying to get and do for others, though I do not let others use me, and if I find out I have been used by someone, I am extremely upset for I feel that I have been taken advantaged of and sadly there are people out there who do just that. Nothing frustrates me more than to want to do something for my dom, to make things less hectic for him, than to have him do it and I stand by and watch. A few things in our relationship are changing, the give and take part, he is willing to let me do more and I am realizing the things he just perfers to do, all part of growing together. But I don't see this as a weakness needing counciling or extensive therapy. Yes I have gone to therapy, and yes it has helped me see myself in a more possitive lite. So I think just because you are a very giving person doesn't mean that you have sever mental problems, could it be that perhaps society has gotten us to the point of, if someone does something nice for us or is always doing things for others there has to be a string attatched or there is an emotional need there for acceptance? How about that that is the persons thread of being who they are, yes there are still those of us who are quiet satisfied to work the non-tech jobs, who enjoy just doing for others without expecting anything in return, who just like to see others happy and in that find happiness within themselves. Sorry if this was a ramble but guess the negative feed back was just a bit disturbing. I don't think the orig. post. meant anything neg. just a loose catergorizing of the types out there. and am sure there are more, perhaps a blending of some of what he wrote and perhaps an entirely different thread of person all together.

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 64

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/8/2005 8:50:37 AM

SinTwister

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I have to tell you that this post offended me. First none of your "categories" fit me. And second, your view is that every submissive is in the D/s lifestyle because of psychological issues and personality flaws?

I firmly believe that people in D/s are wired differently than the main stream. Doesn't make it wrong, just different. There are people in the lifestyle because of the wrong reasons. But, then again, walk into a church and see if you can see some people that are there for those same wrong reasons.

<sheesh>

Bobbi

< Message edited by SinTwister -- 6/8/2005 9:49:16 AM >

(in reply to DesertRat)

Post #: 65

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/9/2005 6:38:30 PM

cumslutcockwhore

Posts: 46
Status: offline

Did you find these in some literature?
Where and by whom ....would like to understand why that "somebody" articulated this and based on .... what?

~~just me

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 66

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/9/2005 8:57:07 PM

Temji

Posts: 43
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

greetings...

I would walk away from any one of those seven in this lifestyle... it's complicated enough with folks who are relatively 'normal'...

be well...

Temji KnightStorm

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 67

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/10/2005 7:03:41 PM

feline

Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline

LMAO!!! Oh my . . . . . I just have to ask, where did you get this stuff?

quote:

I think all submissives can be classified under a series of seven classifications.

Is this entirely your doing? If so, you have a lot to learn.

Good luck,

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Variety is the soul of pleasure.
~Aphra Behn~

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 68

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 4:15:37 AM

fillepink

Posts: 124
Status: offline

i wonder the same thing as cumslutcockwhore..i am reasonably familiar with the DMS-II and have never heard of the mental disorders you describe, Striking. i caution of to beware of people who say they "know" things about BDSM due to their research, experience or comingling with others; don't ever surrender your common sense. ask yourself this question: how many D/s couples would there be if 6 of every 7 girls were such damaged goods? and where's the catagory of Doms? aren't they also "damaged goods" 6 of 7 times?

i have not had a great deal of contact with women here on the site, and yes, i know some who play games to hurt men. but i also know some lovely women i'm delighted to have as girlfriends. most are collared already. in some cases, i am aware of abuse in the woman's background; in others i am not.

what your classificaton system misses, among other things, is that victims of abuse are not condened to wear big red "A"'s on their shirts forever. some people survive, move on, and thrive, despite what happened, and the degree of the abuse is not a good predictor for who will thrive. frankly, i believe many woman are helped when they discover D/s and recognise and appreciate their submissive natures.

trying to predict future behavior based on a woman's past experiences is almost mysoginistic...if you applied the same attempted predictions to a racial group or to poor people, the underlying biogtry would be obvious. i realise mysoginy is on the upswing and people are saying things in polite company now they'd never have dared to 30 years ago. i guess i cannot fault you for being a product of your times -- but i urge you to take a second look at this and ask yourself whether it is not both untrue and insulting to women?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fillepink -- 6/13/2005 8:40:45 AM >

(in reply to feline)

Post #: 69

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 4:53:28 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin81 Most of the classes defined sound like someone who needs counseling more than a Dom.

Well, some people like the power of dealing with a broken person (they find them easier to manipulate) and are therefore attracted to them. I wondered about this with the original poster from the start, since most all of his classifications are negative. His list may only include the broken/in-need-of-therapy because that is all he consciously or subconsciously attracts. Just as he can't classify male subs, perhaps he can not classify healthy female subs because they won't deal with him.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to Domin81)

Post #: 70

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 5:15:46 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709

quote:

ORIGINAL: strikingamatch

My basic premise when writing this essay was, that there is a reason for submissives being the way they are. I cannot accept, that nature would encode a person with a need for pain or humiliation.

I completely disagree with that statement.

WHY? It's just part of what makes me ME. As nature created me, whether it's understood by you or anyone else, including myself.

Blessed be,
harmony

I also strongly disagree with the statement that nature doesn't encode us for certain traits. Personally, I was born the way I am. It didn't take abuse or ill treatment to make me want to tie people up or hurt them any more than outside influences gave me hazel eyes, the ability to read backwards or the ability to identify people by their voice. I started wanting to both tie and hurt people before 4. There is no abuse, trauma, lack of love or secret evil in my early childhood. There was nothing to make me the way I am other than that I was born this way. The brain is a complex system. Lets take a look at it shall we?

The brain has six regions:

The prefrontal cortex is involved in the inhibition of aggressive behavior. Studies have shown that damage to the region correlates with impulsiveness and unpredictable, uncontrolled actions.

The corpus callosum acts as a sort of computer modem, communicating information between the brain's left hemisphere, which is associated with reason and language, and the brain's right hemisphere, which is associated with emotion.

The posterior parietal cortex is involved in the integration of sensory input and the formation of abstract concepts. Reduced glucose uptake in a portion of this region (the left angular gyrus) has been correlated with reduced verbal ability, while damage has been linked to deficits in reading and arithmetic. Violent offenders have consistently been shown to do worse in school than their law-abiding peers.

The thalamus, the amygdala and the hippocampus are among the principal regions comprising the brain's limbic system -- a complex system of nerve pathways and networks. The thalamus relays impulses from the amygdala and the hippocampus to the prefrontal cortex, the region of the brain at the very front of each cerebral hemisphere. The functions of the prefrontal cortex are profoundly concerned with emotions, memory, learning and social behavior.

Now lets consider that nature is a funny thing, and lots of factors can influence a developing fetus. A parent who smokes might cause damage to some of the neurons in a developing brain. A genetic mutation might crop up and change three pathways in the limbic system. Any one of hundreds of things can change how the brain "wires" itself. And you're trying to tell me with that in mind, you feel nature doesn't produce people who enjoy pain or beating people, can listen to music and replay it note perfect, or memorize a page with a single reading ? I think you need to reconsider your statements, do some scientific reading and rethink your position.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to harmony3709)

Post #: 71

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 5:27:31 AM

pygmalionsub

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

I see myself a LITTLE bit in some of your classifications, but i think you put to much value on these things....or perhaps i'm in denial that these things have effected me so deeply.

I am a sub, quite simply because I enjoy it. Its simple psychology, if you do something and it brings you pleasure, you more then likely going to repeat that action. I am not into extreme pain ( i'm not into extreme anything really) but i find how out body works amazing. I allow small amounts of pain to be given to me, because the way your body will tune out pain over pleasure is fascinating, and the endorphine rush is quite addicting.

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 72

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 8:58:34 AM

fillepink

Posts: 124
Status: offline

Beach Mistress's post just amazed me..proving again what intelligent people are attracted to this site and to BDSM. THAT is a classification i would agree with...fillepink

Attachment (1)

(in reply to pygmalionsub)

Post #: 73

. - 6/13/2005 10:54:40 AM

sprite67

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

.

< Message edited by sprite67 -- 6/16/2005 8:21:31 AM >

(in reply to fillepink)

Post #: 74

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/13/2005 11:58:18 PM

strikingamatch

Posts: 24
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline

Thank you Sprite67 for posting your thoughts.

BeachMystress, I agree that nature can produce an exception. However, the d/s lifestyle is one that is very popular. I don't think it would be correct to relate to the need for pain as a "change" from the natural state. I think the attraction to d/s is a natural response to specific set of stimuli.

(in reply to sprite67)

Post #: 75

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/14/2005 5:23:48 AM

fourpeas

Posts: 243
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline

As a submissive who is truly service-oriented and derives great amounts of pleasure from serving many people in my life, not just a Dom, but everyone from friends and family to co-workers, I am offended that all these definitions of female submissives (what about the men???) all focus on past pain or hurt except for the one "Perfect Submissive" who has no pain, no hurt, no past experiences and no problems.

Whatever!! If it helps you to put people in classes why not try a little harder to make more definitions that aren't so specific and limiting? Why not take on the idea that someone said (pardon me I forget whom) about classifying submissives by their strengths? There are plenty of people out there for whom a bedroom submissive is not only exactly what they want, but exactly what they need. What's wrong with that? Who's to say that she/he isn't a "perfect sub" because they do it a different way?

And... Even though I have experienced brokenness and abuse just the same as many people in this community, I love myself, damnit! and I enjoy being treated like a prized possession because I KNOW that's what I am! *sassily snaps fingers* (Not to mention how much it turns my Dom on to see me kicking ass out in the world, wink) There are too many of us who have had those experiences who don't submit out of fear or pain, but out of a true desire.

I also want to know what's up with the superiority complex. Submissives have *agreed* and taken on this role because we are strong as well. I would like to hear more Doms trying to classify themselves, *why* they feel a need to dominate. What kind of strength does it take? What kind of weakness does it indicate?

Even if someone is a true slave and signs themself over to you entirely... it's never going to be completely perfect. That's just life.

I am not going to offend people by posting a classification of Doms/Masters, because I have read too many thoughtful and polite posts from people on this site. But I wonder about that as well. I wonder why that isn't tackled as much.

I know this is probably beating a dead horse, but just because a sub has experienced pain or enjoys experiencing pain or has been abused does not mean that he/she is flawed. I am SO TIRED of the "poor little" mentality. We are strong in our own right. We are powerful. Most of us have been hurt but, we are by no means broken.

"It takes two kinds of strength: the strength to strip another soul, and the strength to stand naked."

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 76

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/27/2005 6:49:22 AM

maryellen

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/23/2005
Status: offline

humm yes there is some of this that is past for me ....but that is what it is...gone done and left behind....what i am is what i was born to be not what things in life made me...my streaght comes from the past my personality comes from my brains wiring..that comes with birth....

_____________________________

know my mind....have my body......find my soul ....i am yours forever

(in reply to DesertRat)

Post #: 77

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/28/2005 10:35:27 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strikingamatch

Thank you to all those who responded.

My basic premise when writing this essay was, that there is a reason for submissives being the way they are. I cannot accept, that nature would encode a person with a need for pain or humiliation. That being the case, I think it is correct and even required for a dom to understand his submissive. If we desire to live our life in a manner that is best for us and for those we love, it is imperative we understand what it is we are doing.

I am aware that by classifying people, you reduce human complexities to a simplistic and thus objectionable level. That being the case perhaps it would be more constructive to view this list not as a series of definitions, but rather providing a list of motivators, why people seek what they do.

Several members have noted that most of the list seems to be comprised of negative attributes or experiences. To that I respond, that I am merely an observer and it would be easy enough to read through posts and profiles and bring written evidence of these traits. As for example http://www.collarchat.com/Parents_influence/m_103282/tm.htm

Several submissives have claimed that they do not fit a single profile on the list, my question to them is, do they see their orientation as being inborn, much the same way as other people require love and approval, or do they have a different motivator that does not appear on the list?

Finally, as to a similar list for doms. I have tried several times to come up with such a list with no success. Perhaps, because I see myself as a dom, I cannot be an objective bystander and record my findings. One question, that tortures my psyche and that I find unable to resolve is, Why do I enjoy hurting those I love? Perhaps when I answer that question I will better be able to understand why a dom is a dom.

Your assertion that "I cannot accept, that nature would encode a person with a need for pain or humiliation." skews your theories from their inception. To correctly analyze a situation, it is first neccessary to put aside one's preconceptions. You have, IMO, prevented yourself from considering a great deal of relevant information in formulating your classifications.
As to the classifications themselves, I agree with others who have stated that one does indeed meet those who correspond to your classifications but they are only a portion of the differing types of females submissives. It might be possible, given sufficient time and resources, to list all the ways submissives behave and score each submissive on her individual behaviors but, truthfully, it's much more interesting to get to know one on a deeper emotional level.
Best wishes in your endeavors,
Timothy

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 78

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/29/2005 10:51:47 AM

Mylee

Posts: 217
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

I dont know that I fit into these classes ither, maybe 7 if I really wanted to agree with your post

I'm however worried about your tone when wording your classes, to me you don't sound like someone who likes women, maybe even dislikes us to a certian degree and though I am truely submissive in nature, I would have a very hard time putting myself into your hands

My point being even if anything in your 7 classes could possibly be right, the tone and your wording sounds so negitive I would be afraid of a Dom using them to classify us or to use as a bassis

(in reply to DesertRat)

Post #: 79

RE: The Seven Classes of Submissives - 6/29/2005 1:32:14 PM

zaynab

Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

i fit into every single one of those classes...... ?

_____________________________

zaynab[DM]

quote:

i used to care... but now i take a pill for that

(in reply to strikingamatch)

Post #: 80

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