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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 8:13:02 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I'm with Michael on this one.

Contrary to what others have told you, your best off 'doing first and asking questions later.' This isn't to say ignore her; it means take it slow, and 'surprise' her with some of the more tame activities.

this has the potential of blowing up in his face with horrible complications because lack of consent. some women don't like the element of surprise and she might be one of them - we fully don't know.

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 9:18:54 AM

Stephann

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The situtation I described in my first post on this thread doesn't smack of 'training.' I simply don't consider kinky sex to be training. Also, there's a catch 22 involved when you try to get consent, to explain what she's consenting to. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Anyway, there's a chance that this will blow up no matter what approach he takes. There are lots of people who like to play kinky games, but refuse to discuss them. The moment a light is shined on the activity, it becomes wrong, evil, unacceptable. This is why I suggested positive reinforcement, encouragement, and expressions of pride and enjoyment.

The assumption, of course, is that his 'training' is done without her knowledge or consent. In reality, she always has the option to say 'no, I don't like that.' It isn't something being forced on her (at least, it shouldn't be.) I just see trying to explain D/s from start to finish before you do anything a lot like trying to explain how sex works using sex education diagrams, before your first kiss. It's putting the cart before the horse.

Stephan

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 9:22:47 AM

MagiksSlave

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I think it is sneeky and underhanded to try and make someone into a submissive without them knowing or without their consent. I didnt mean for him to stop every few secents and ask her if what he was doing was ok, I ment anything new that he wanted to try he should ask her first, dont just pull out needles and wax tie her up and do as you please, this will get you slaped with an assoult charge mighty fast. Im sorry but I feel the consent is the most importent thing that seperates BDSM S&M and M/s from abuse!!

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 9:28:16 AM

girl001

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"Some want to discuss it all, some don't. I don't, I just reach out and yank them to their knees".

this is what i'm seeing: no amount of 'talking' is going to get a reaction such as doing the actions stated above by Michael.. In the end, after such a move is made You WILL know where you stand with her.. In my opinion..it's all about the feelings.. we can discuss consent later as the relationship developes..

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 9:36:43 AM

Stephann

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Magik's slave,

Wax? Needles? Where did I suggest anything like that?

Please take the time to read my comments fully, if you wish to continue this conversation.

Stephan

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:11:00 AM

AquaticSub

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Kinky sex does not involve training. However he did ask "how do I train her into a good little submissive". This is probably why so many submissives have responded with "Talk to her".

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:15:23 AM

MagiksSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Kinky sex does not involve training. However he did ask "how do I train her into a good little submissive". This is probably why so many submissives have responded with "Talk to her".

BINGO!!

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:26:48 AM

Stephann

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Are you sure you want to pick nits?

quote:

So My question would be along the lines of how do I introduce her to this lifestyle (despite being adventourous in a vanilla sense thats all she knows of) and train her properly into a good little submissive.

The sentance is chronological. First, introduce to lifestyle. Second, set about training. My advice was to introduce through tactile, hands on methods. Show, rather than tell. It needn't be any more sexual than a massage, though the OP insinuates there is a preexisting sexual relationship already. Now, where did I mention wax and needles again?

Stephan

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:34:39 AM

AquaticSub

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Again, I am not concerned with the sexual aspect of it - that part is easy enough to do. He asked for advice on training. We gave ours - talk to her honestly.

And no, you didn't mention needles and wax. She was giving an example and I said that a woman may accept those things as part of kinky sex but still have no inclinations to serve or be owned.

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:41:05 AM

Stephann

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Aquatic,

I don't disagree, your advice is certainly worth considering. girl001 summed it up nicely. It was the 'sneaky and underhanded' and insinuation of abuse that bothers me, and you're not responsible for those comments at all.

Take care,

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 6/19/2007 10:49:52 AM >

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 10:44:08 AM

girl001

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If You do what Michael suggests...and reach out and put her to her knees and she likes it loves it or hates it.. You will know.. and the coversation begins..perhaps with a book then for both of you to read together..

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 12:01:16 PM

sambamanslilgirl

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my problem with your solution is the "try it you might like it" approach without her consent whether it's kinky sex or not. i have to agree with Magikslave on this one - nothing like being slapped with an assualt charge if he doesn't know how or what he's doing after asking her "well babe how did you like that ...do you want to do it again?" - wtf?!?!

you should re-read the op again - he collared her before even introducing her into the lifestyle and now he wants advice on how to train her to be a proper submissive ...sounds to me he gradually forcing her into the lifestyle without consent - major red flag imho

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 12:54:20 PM

cjenny

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IMO I am seeing a considerable bit of overreacting. At the age of 19 and just beginning to 'play kinky sex' doesn't require consent. All he has to do is stop, he made no mention of forcing or scaring her. If she doesn't like a blindfold I bet she says a simply no instead of jumping up and calling the police

The OP may or may not have phrased things as exactly as planned. It is his first post after all.

There are light movies, slightly kinky novels and other ways to bring it up too. My thought is to keep it casual and keep it fun. I would stay away from hardcore stuff completely and that includes checklists for awhile. Checklists have a lot of activities that go way beyond a bit of kinky sex & they could appear scary.

Both are young so jeez, have fun.

quote:

Both being young (19) I didnt expect My girlfriend to be ready to kneel down collared for Me as soon as W/we begun dating however, now I would like some advice. she knows nothing of this lifestyle but does have a very "submissive" general attitude and will often do as shes told so to speak. I have also playfully spanked her a bit and also used the promise of spanking to make her behave/do something.

So My question would be along the lines of how do I introduce her to this lifestyle (despite being adventourous in a vanilla sense thats all she knows of) and train her properly into a good little submissive.

Any help with training/this problem will be much appreciated

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 12:56:01 PM

MagiksSlave

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Stephann you need to calm down. I never said you told him to do any of those things, they where mearly examples. I never called you abusive eather. However BDSM without consent is asoult plain and simple.

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Post #: 34

RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 1:08:46 PM

cjenny

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Why do you think that two people having fun kinky sex need to work out a consent agreement beforehand?

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 1:27:00 PM

MagiksSlave

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If you wherent used to haveing kinky sex and sudenly with no worning you where beeing tied up wouldnt you get scared or mad or upset, I know that would deffinetly not go over well with me.

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Post #: 36

RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 1:37:14 PM

cjenny

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What I am trying to get you to see is that all she has to do is say 'no I don't want to try that'. She has no experience in BDSM which also means that she won't have any expectations of active submitting. He isn't a dom or master, he hasn't collared her. She is not a slave or submissive. He is interested in showing her a bit about this stuff in a slow way.
Asking someone to fill out:
Enemas yes or no.
Fireplay yes or no.
Whips yes or no.
Humiliation yes or no.
Asking that is way overkill when they haven't even talked about mild kink!

They aren't at a negotiation stage yet. If they are not in the position of dominant/master, submissive/slave then there is not the need for SSC RACK or questionnaires.

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 1:44:52 PM

MagiksSlave

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Hey I never said he should use a checklist!!! Those show things that would be far to scary for someone with no familiarity to the scene and would be sure to scare her off if she even had any interest at all.

And thats what I mean she should have a choice weather she is interested or not. All us sub/slaves here had a choice to come here and be involved in BDSM we all chose to find Masters and to submit. What you are sugesting is to take that choice away from her and I dont think thats right. When she got involved with the OP she wasnt getting involved with a Dom she was getting involved with a boy friend a vanilla one and it should stay that way untill she consents to it changing.

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< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 6/19/2007 1:46:26 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 4:00:39 PM

maybemaybenot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Don't tell her a damn think about S&M would be my opinion. Many young women are terrified of anything kinky, but you can spank them, tie them up and blindfold them, fuck them in the ass but if you say you are into S&M and want to spank them, tie them up and blindfold them, or fuck them in the ass they will freak out.

Before the PC police try and cut my head off, please not that isn't the same as lying. Be clear about what you are doing, just don't let on its kinky or related to S&M. Worry a bit less about introducing new things and build trust with her. Problem with young girls is their brains don't work yet and what motivates them is vastly different than a mature woman (of course there are exceptions people, some girls like girls too) and so I can't give specifics on what to do to build trust or a healthy relationship.

You guys are both young, don't worry so much about if you are "doing it right" just do it all night long. Don't worry if you are "just being kinky" it is as valid and as beautiful as anything else.

Having once been that 19 year old girl < in my case it was 21>, who knew nothing of BDSM except it was a bucnh of people who tied and beat each other up, I have to agree with SimplyMichael. At 21, I met a * guy* who had some kinky sexual ideas, I was willing to try a few but not all, cuz it was * too weird and gross*. Without writing a novel of my introduction into WIITWD, let me say that that is exactly how I started down this path. As time went on, he engaged my trust that if I just tried XYZ, it would be OK, I didn't have to complete it. He would discuss his desires with me beforehand and encourage me. And you know what? Something in me wanted to complete it, because I knew it would make him proud of me, and I generally did. Within two years, I became aware that there was a name for what type of relationship we had, because he told me about it. Over the two year period it grew beyond kinky sex into service type areas, dressing in a manner that pleased him, and pretty much making sure I kept him happy. I was far from a twue submissive, but once he actually came out and told me about it, suggested books, readings, etc. I was on my way.

I don't think I was tricked or misled down a path. I actually am thankful for the way I was slowly lead into it. I think I would have turned tail and run if he pulled out all the stops back then.

mbmbn

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RE: Advice on a vanilla girlfriend - 6/19/2007 4:05:10 PM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

my problem with your solution is the "try it you might like it" approach without her consent whether it's kinky sex or not. i have to agree with Magikslave on this one - nothing like being slapped with an assualt charge if he doesn't know how or what he's doing after asking her "well babe how did you like that ...do you want to do it again?" - wtf?!?!

you should re-read the op again - he collared her before even introducing her into the lifestyle and now he wants advice on how to train her to be a proper submissive ...sounds to me he gradually forcing her into the lifestyle without consent - major red flag imho

Where does he say he collared her?

You can't 'gradually force' anyone into anything. Gradually, suggests that at any time if she doesn't like what's happening, she can put the brakes on or ditch completely. She's an adult. Nowhere did I suggest he should ignore a 'no.' At the same time, if I'm having sex, I'm not going to pull out, sit her down at the kitchen table, pour us both a cup of cocoa and say "darling, I'd really like to spank your ass while I'm doing you doggie style." My suggestions were to engage in the very lightest, tamest activities slowly, giving her a chance to respond positively or negatively. Spontaneity has it's place just like communication. As long as he's communicating in the process, he should be fine.

Stephan

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