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Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 2:11:24 PM   
undergroundsea


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So I'm at a Birthday happy hour on Sunday catching up with some vanilla friends (corporate world crowd) I haven't seen in a while. And I'm chatting with the wife of the birthday boy.

Have you been seeing anyone, she asks?

Casually. Sort off. We see each other every so often.

Anyone I know?

Nope, you don't.

How'd you meet her? What's she like?

She's cool. We don't have enough in common for anything long term.

<since one is a lesbian and the other is a 20 year old, I proceed to change the subject ;-) >

And I met someone else at a party in San Anton last weekend and we clicked really well. She's hinting at wanting to come here or me going down again <pun lovers, feast on>. But Í worry that it won't go where she might want it to go and I'd be leading her on. I'm a bit torn. I like getting her messages and want to see her but find myself holding back a bit.

<There was some talk about prior talks of compatiblity, which leads to a question about compatibility.>

It's just complicated. More complicated than you might think.

Why is it so complicated?

It just is.

How?

<pause> Are you sure you want to know? <I have been thinking of telling her for a while now>

Yes. Tell me.

I'd like to tell you. But it might be too much information.

<now she really wants to know, and leans forward> What is it?

Are you sure?

Yes, I'm sure.

<pause> It has to do with <cough> sexuality.

What?

It has to do with <no cough but quieter> sexuality?

What?

<louder> IT HAS TO DO WITH SEXUALITY

<The whole bar goes silent and everyone starts to look at me!>

<ok. Just kidding, that didn't happen. Rewind>

Are you sure?

Yes, I'm sure.

It has to do with sexuality.

What do you mean?

It has to do with alternative sexuality.

Alternative sexuality? <pause> Are you gay?

Nope. Even more alternative.

What do you mean?

<pause> Have you heard about fetishes? That's me.

Fetishes? Like what? Like chains and stuff?

Well. That's a stereotype image that often comes up. But, yes, that general stuff.

Oh! I didn't know you were into that.

Well you know now. And now you know why I am going to these events where I am vague and don't invite you. And why I have been dodgy with your attempts to set me up with your vanilla girlfriends. Umm. Vanilla is the word we use to describe someone who isn't into all that.

Vanilla? Yeah <laughing, as much at the thought of her prior attempts to set me up with her church friends as at learning that the term for her is vanilla> I probably shouldn't set you up then.

<Another friend chimes in. I think hearing the words setting someone up will draw this friend friend into a coversation the same way a guy would turn to see what was being said if he heard the word sex> What?

Nothing. He's saying we shouldn't set him up.

<we talk a bit more about compatibility and the like as I think, gosh, this was too easy! She said something about not intending to ask for more details and I responded that I didn't plan to give more details>

Well, you could try match.com

<I just smile and shake my head. She thinks I'm smiling because I don't think much of internet personals>

Yeah. You might not like the internet thing.

Well thank you for being cool about it. You are only the second person I have told from this circle (former work friends, mostly mainstream crowd).

Well, it's nothing. You had built it up with all that talk up front and all those times when we couldn't meet your other friends and so I was prepared for anything.

Well I'm just glad you didn't start to think I had joined organized crime or become a secret agent <I went to one of their parties dressed like a secret agent for a theme party I was attending afterwards> because I was being secretive and you weren't seeing me as much.

<LOL....I mean really....as in laughing out loud>

Well. If I come across a friend who's like that I'll be sure and tell you

Well. Thanks for being cool about it.

No, thanks for telling me. You know I'm not gonna freak over that.

I know. And that's one of the reasons I told you. There's no way in hell I'm having this conversation with Charles (a guy with whom we used to work)

<laughter>

And so that's one reason I told you. Another is that it's just liberating to be able to say, hey, that's who I am. And I worried about slight I might be causing by not inviting you two to parties of my friends like you do, or, you know, always having vague prior plans when you call to invite me, or when I left your party because there was another to go to. I've just been trying to spend time where I can be more free about it and meet others like that. I didn't want you to think I was blowing you off or anything.

<Talk, talk, talk.>

<It really was too easy! But let's see what happens next. She told me as we were leaving to not worry about the conversation we had. But I am going to watch for who's trying to hold back a funny smile next time I see all of them ;-) >

Cheers,

Sea
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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 2:35:31 PM   
Trampler


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Good! Glad to hear that went well!

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 4:14:07 PM   
undergroundsea


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Thanks. You think it'd be ok to tell my boss next? ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 4:29:02 PM   
aidan


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Good on ya, boyo! *slaps sea on the back*

See folks? Isn't it nice to just be honest? Stand tall, be proud, all that jazzinazz?


_____________________________

Do what now?

"I aim to misbehave."
-Mal Reynolds

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 4:40:29 PM   
LadyPact


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Some on the other side of kink surprise us.  Actually, I had a blast telling My boss, but she's an incredible woman.

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 4:43:54 PM   
undergroundsea


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Thanks for the words of support, Aidan :)

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 4:45:26 PM   
undergroundsea


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In all honesty, whether or not someone should come out is subjective. Different people have different circumstances. I think each should weigh their pros and cons.

In my case, cons were little and there were pros. I feel glad to have done it. And each time I have done it, it has been easier and better than I thought it would be.

I attended a presentation by Jack Rinella about the history of sexuality and BDSM. He commented that the general acceptance of homosexuality grew with the collective coming out of people. As more and more people came to learn that someone they knew was gay, it helped shatter stereotypes and helped the image of homosexuality. One point Jack attempted to convey in his talk was that we can take the lessons learned through the growth of homosexuality and apply them to BDSM.

In my case, I was fairly confident that my friends would not think BDSM to be horrid, and that how they feel about me could withstand this conversation and any preconceptions they might have had. While I am fortunate to have had a happy experience, I know from conversations that others who have come out have not had as positive a response.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 5:04:28 PM   
Politesub53


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Hmmmm try having an online diary, and being dumb enough to use the same user name for another forum.
Then some ass goggles ya name ( God alone know why ) and suddenly you are busted to 500 people, some of whom know you r/t


Well it could happen

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 6:11:56 PM   
undergroundsea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Hmmmm try having an online diary


So you are an open book to your friends ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 6:19:53 PM   
undergroundsea


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Speaking of learning from the advances of homosexuality, there is plenty of literature out there for coming out, which would be relevant for BDSMers too.

Ways not to come out:

Show up for Thanksgiving in a thong being led by your girlfriend on a leash.

Umm. Hi Mom! Boy do I have something to tell you! You got a minute? What? Why are you crying? Where are you going? <knock, knock> Mom? Mom? Can you at least pull the curtains so we can see the score on TV?

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 6/19/2007 6:28:35 PM   
MamaDomme


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Thanks. You think it'd be ok to tell my boss next? ;-)

Cheers,

Sea



Well, it might work for you as well as it did for me.  My past employer and my current one all knew/know about my lifestyle preferences.  The former is a very good friend and is also on the fringes of the lifestyle so it was no big deal.  The current one said something off-handed one day and I told her the truth.  Two years later, I'm still working there, with a raise and she tells everyone not to mess with me or I'll bring out the floggers.

A new maintenence manager started a couple months ago-- she's very dominant in her personality and of course, she's the supervisor over a full staff of men, including her husband.  Both of our offices are in the same building and last week she hollered at me and said "Hey, I heard you are a Dominatrix, is that true?"  I told her yes, that I have been for close to 30 years.  Then she tells me that she thought so and we started comparing 'notes' and talking about dungeons that we both have visited in the past.  We have a fantastic working relationship and her "boys" (staff) all hang out in my lobby area on their breaks. 

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 8:59:32 AM   
undergroundsea


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The recent discussion in the blackmail thread about the power of being out, and a text message I received last night inspire these updates.

My brother came to visit last August. He called on a Saturday to say he was coming on Monday evening. I was out of town (for a kink event no less, so I had a vague answer when he asked me what I was doing!) and returning on Monday around noon.

"Good," I thought, "I have some time to hide my stuff." So I get home and go on a hiding mission. Wrist cuffs. Gotta go. BDSM books. Let's put them in this box. And so I went about my mission.

And one evening I was sitting at a computer doing regular work. And he was sitting behind me. And suddenly he says, "are you into kinking stuff?"

Oh Shit! He must have found something!

I didn't know what to say. I turned around and casually said, why, yes I am, and turned right back around to work on my computer.

Since I am known to kid around, he asked me again seriously. He said he had seen a thing or two that had made him and wonder and then he goes off in mid-sentence to say, "is this you?"

It turns out he was going through a stack of photos from kinky events and had come across this one!

http://hometown.aol.com/seaarl/shibari.html

I reach out and take the photos from him. You don't need to be seeing those.

No, let me see them. I want to know what is going on.

I don't think so.

My mind was a bit stirred up and I am not sure exactly how the conversation ended. But the topic came up again over the course of his visit. And he was much cooler about it than I would have expected. So far, I have only told people about the general interest with no details about the activities. He, however, stumbled across a bit more detail. He was genuinely curious and non-judgmental. He is not drawn to kink but he is not sexually repressed. He had a whatever-you-enjoy attitude about it. So, as a result of his visit he knows about  my BDSM interests. And because of his curiosity and time alone in the house when I was at work, he knows better than I the inventory of what is in all my hidden boxes ;-)

Amongst my family, the first I thought I would tell would be my sister. I had thought of telling her and had sometimes skirted the conversation in the past. After my brother came to find out, I decided I would eventually let her know too.

So I was speaking with her on the phone a few days ago and asked if her husband and son were nearby, which they were not. So I proceeded. Because I had asked her about her husband and son, she knew I was going to be sharing some news.

Sounds like you have some news.

Yup. I do, I do.

Me: So when your brother came to visit, we had had some conversations. And it's a conversation I have thought to have with you but have not yet found the right moment. It's a conversation I have skirted around in the past where I vaguely told you it was too much information and that I did not want to have that conversation when we have talked about settling down and having a family.

Me: I consider myself to be someone who has a non-mainstream sexuality and who seeks non-mainstream relationships.
Her: <silence>
Me: <silence>
Her: So are you going to tell me, or what?
Me: Well I want to make sure you want me to continue.

And so I tell make a brief mention of BDSM and check in with her to see if she has any idea of the ballpark of what I am saying, and why I am telling her. And her husband walks in the room!

So she changes the subject. And then I got this text message from her last night:

"Hi sorry we had to cut short the other day. Luv u even though u r weird. I say that with no offense. Hope u can come visit soon am missing u. Luv."

So there is my update for coming out ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 3/6/2008 9:02:47 AM >

(in reply to MamaDomme)
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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 10:05:22 AM   
thetammyjo


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I happen to agree with Jack Rinella on this.

I think as we feel comfortable enough to come out and be out so too will general knowledge about what is BDSM and what is abuse/crime will grow.

Doesn't mean that some folks won't use BDSM as a cover for crime and abuse, they do all ready, just that those of us who frankly live our lives pretty much as everyone else except with Ds or bondage or whatever with another consenting adult, might become less afraid.

Congrats on coming out to your second person, Sea.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 10:57:47 AM   
aidan


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Another victory for you personally and the BDSM community as a whole. Proud of you, duder.


_____________________________

Do what now?

"I aim to misbehave."
-Mal Reynolds

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 11:29:02 AM   
KindLadyGrey


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Oh Politesub! You have my sympathy. That's totally how I ended up coming out to my inlaws. They found my LJ! If you know my e-mail address, I am pretty much the most easily google-stalked person ever. I make it that way on purpose.

The funny thing is that one of the reasons I talk about my lifestyle so openly is exactly because of what Sea posted:

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I attended a presentation by Jack Rinella about the history of sexuality and BDSM. He commented that the general acceptance of homosexuality grew with the collective coming out of people. As more and more people came to learn that someone they knew was gay, it helped shatter stereotypes and helped the image of homosexuality. One point Jack attempted to convey in his talk was that we can take the lessons learned through the growth of homosexuality and apply them to BDSM.


I advocate politically for [alternative] sexuality as well, but often the best way to change the world is just to be the change and not be ashamed of who you are. Good for you Sea! The more of us who are out the sooner everyone will chill out about this stuff.

My whole family knows, and their reaction was basically "Okay, now that we know, is it okay if we pretend that we don't?" But hey, at least they know. I don't have a large number of friends I would consider "vanilla" (we're all a little kinky here), but many of the vanilla friends that I did have ended up experimenting on the kinky side and now love it. They just saw how much fun I have all the time and had to get in on that. They whine at me now if I go play and don't kiss and tell, and love calling me up to tell me about their adventures. It's totally awesome.

I know a lot of people have jobs that would fire them if they were out (which is reason #2gabillion I don't teach for the public school system), and I feel really sorry for those people. I am pretty politically active, and I've sacrificed a lot of future possibilities by being out about my lifestyle (like say, ever holding elected office), but it was totally worth it. Being out is awesome, and every step you take toward that goal makes you freer, and every other kinky person freer as well.

So not only do you have my congratulations, sea, but also my thanks.

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 1:23:10 PM   
Parataxis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

Thanks. You think it'd be ok to tell my boss next? ;-)

Cheers,

Sea


Errr, that would really depend on the context and situation at the office.  Generally, I'm of the opinion that if you're not getting down with somebody, discussions of what you like in bed are not needed.  I mean, if it came up in conversation, discuss it, but would it?

Liking kink is the same as liking anything else in bed; it's nothing to be ashamed of, but also not necessarilly what you should be telling all and sundry.   IMNAAHO.

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 1:42:29 PM   
WalterRego


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Did I miss it, or did it seem not relevant to the story or.....when you told  her, did you leave out the part about being on the submissive side of the slash? 

I've been in the situation (in fact just this past weekend) of declining being set up, or saying "No I don't think match.com is for me." and have come close to revealing why but when I came near the brink, always got feeling that being Dominant would be more acceptable to vanillas.

_____________________________

A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water.
-Abraham Joshua Heschel

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 1:51:59 PM   
BlackPhx


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Entirely up to your read of him. I have had a couple of bosses in my life who have known about me, others where it just wasn't something they needed to know. 98% of my friends know, my in-laws do, in fact I met my M-I-law to be the first time wearing a collar and not much else (that was a touch awkward but she was cool more so than she was about the fact I am nearly the same age as her).

Good luck and great courage to you no matter what you decide.

poenkitten

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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 2:34:42 PM   
KindLadyGrey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Parataxis

Liking kink is the same as liking anything else in bed; it's nothing to be ashamed of, but also not necessarilly what you should be telling all and sundry. IMNAAHO.


Not to pick on you parataxis, but this sentiment drives me batty. D/s is about a lot more than sex, and I think it's the perception that this is a primarily "sexual" lifestyle that helps drive a lot of people into the closet in the first place because anything involving sex isn't a socially acceptable topic of conversation (and don't even get me started on that issue).

My problem with this is that it doesn't allow for challenging the dominant assumptions of our culture. People often say things like "I don't care if people are gay, but why do they have to make such a big deal out of it? Do I really need to know who they are fucking?" Well, no, they don't need to know that, but keep in mind that everybody knows who they are fucking, and because of that everyone can share a baseline of communication for talking about sexual things without actually breaking the taboo and talking about sex directly. But the moment a gay man says "My boyfriend came over last night" everyone else's mind immediately jumps to "OMG, buttsex eeeewwww!" and they change the subject. They never think to ask "What did you guys do?" even if the answer is just "We watched the new James Bond movie." Likewise, whenever a kinky person mentions ANYTHING about their lifestyle, most people immediately think about "whips and chains" but they never think about any of the thousands of non-sexual manifestations of this lifestyle. Other people can talk about their spouses, their weekend travels, their hobbies, and even sometimes things that make them horny ("I love titties, woo!"). I don't see why kinky folks should be able to share the same information about their daily lives. You got into an argument with your boyfriend and he bought you some flowers/jewelry to apologize? That's great. I got in an argument with my boyfriend too; I spanked him and he cleaned my kitchen to apologize. The objective sexual content of these activities is pretty equal, IMHO.

Communicating our basic preferences once allows us to have a shared basis for communication later so that we don't HAVE to break that taboo, and it provides context in case someone sees us practicing our lifestyle later. Context free, if someone sees my boyfriend slap me, they are going to assume he's an abusive asshole. If they know I'm a kinky masochist, they'll just assume we're having a little fun.

Obviously not everyone is willing to accept that, and not everybody has any reason to HAVE that shared basis for communication. Your boss? Maybe not, unless you hang out with your boss socially. But your friends, your co-workers, your family, it might actually explain a lot to them if they know, just like Sea finally explained where he was running off to all the time and why he never introduced his vanilla friends to his other friends.

So the whole "nobody really needs to know what you do in the bedroom" argument falls flat. Most people do know what other people do in the bedroom, at least the basic facts, so they operate on those assumptions by default. If you don't fit the default, and people try to apply their assumptions to you, there is likely to be a bit of a communication problem, or at least a lapse of communication between yourself and the other people in your life. They don't need to know graphic details, but it certainly might help if they know the basic jist just like everybody else does.

Keep in mind that any time anyone tells someone that they shouldn't speak about something, it is almost always a way of shaming them into silence.

(in reply to Parataxis)
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RE: Coming Out Scene Report - 3/6/2008 3:17:51 PM   
Parataxis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey

My problem with this is that it doesn't allow for challenging the dominant assumptions of our culture. People often say things like "I don't care if people are gay, but why do they have to make such a big deal out of it? Do I really need to know who they are fucking?" Well, no, they don't need to know that, but keep in mind that everybody knows who they are fucking, and because of that everyone can share a baseline of communication for talking about sexual things without actually breaking the taboo and talking about sex directly. But the moment a gay man says "My boyfriend came over last night" everyone else's mind immediately jumps to "OMG, buttsex eeeewwww!" and they change the subject. They never think to ask "What did you guys do?" even if the answer is just "We watched the new James Bond movie."


You clearly associate with a different sort of people than do I.  Unless the words 'my face' are in between 'came over' and 'last night', most people I know don't immediately jump to sex in their minds.  YMMV.

quote:

Other people can talk about their spouses, their weekend travels, their hobbies, and even sometimes things that make them horny ("I love titties, woo!"). I don't see why kinky folks should be able to share the same information about their daily lives.


I'm guessing then that you missed the part where I said 'if it comes up in conversation, discuss it'. (Incidentally, if somebody screams 'I love titties, woo!' at the office, they're probably 15 minutes away from a harrassment suit.)  Kinky people can indeed share the same information about their daily lives; I never said anything differently.


quote:

Communicating our basic preferences once allows us to have a shared basis for communication later so that we don't HAVE to break that taboo, and it provides context in case someone sees us practicing our lifestyle later.


Again, I think this comes down to with whom we associate.  Most of my friends don't assume that somebody is straight and narrow unless told otherwise.  There's really no taboo to break; being kinky stopped being taboo sometime in the late nineties, when we realised that everybody was kinky in some respects.  A shared basis for communication is built through conversation, not through broad announcements.  Talking about your life, when it comes up, builds normalcy - making an announcement presents it as something bizarre and shocking.

quote:

not everybody has any reason to HAVE that shared basis for communication. Your boss? Maybe not, unless you hang out with your boss socially.


Which is pretty much what I was saying.  If you don't generally have those sorts of conversations with your boss (ie: it doesn't come up in conversation) there's no real reason to tell him.  If it does come up in conversation, then it does, and you converse.

quote:

If you don't fit the default, and people try to apply their assumptions to you, there is likely to be a bit of a communication problem, or at least a lapse of communication between yourself and the other people in your life.


Where are you living that there's a 'default' sexuality?  Again, I think we know very different sorts of people.



(in reply to KindLadyGrey)
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