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Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 3:50:58 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I had an interesting conversation with my best friend the other day. Now a little background: she has always seen herself as a submissive. In fact, she is sexually submissive, but such a top from the bottom type. I know first hand! I used to tell her she didn’t have a sub bone in her body. She liked having her ass smacked and knew exactly how to get it.

Seems she is dating a man who has devoted himself to serving her. He is supporting her as she works hard to build her career as an artist (for the record, she is brilliant and I’m not just saying this because she is my best friend). He makes considerably more money then she does and he supports her. He is always doing things like bringing her groceries, flowers, taking her to concerts, on trips, etc. When she asks him why he does all these things, he says it’s because he loves her and is completely devoted to her. Her smile is all he needs. And yet in bed, he ties her up and spanks her, but only of course when she feels like it.

I painted the scenario back to her with the objective of making her realise she was a Domme. She seemed baffled. “I always saw myself as the submissive because I like to get spanked” she responded. And we talked more and slowly she came to the realisation that the D/s dynamics were exactly the opposite of what she though they were.

The point is not to say what is a true D/s relationship or to determine if this one is or not. I’m looking at who has the upper hand. It is obvious that she has all the authority and calls most of the shots.

I’d love to hear feedback on this. Have you ever seen this happen to anyone or do you have this perception of another D/s relationship? I know you don’t have all the facts. I can answer questions but I also don’t want to expose too much about her here as it is her life.

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove
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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:04:09 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The point is not to say what is a true D/s relationship or to determine if this one is or not. I’m looking at who has the upper hand. It is obvious that she has all the authority and calls most of the shots.


L A,
I believe that any D/s relationship where the submissive half has limits or ponders a 'safe-word' during a session and/or dictates the frequency, time, tools, and method of play is in actuality, like your friend, a top in need of a sensation such as spanking. Basically your friend is in charge. Her partner may be applying the spanking, but as your scenario documents, she knows and acts "exactly how to get it".

There are MANY more self identified subs falling into this category than actual submissives. But as long as each party gets what they want and knows "exactly how to get it" - it doesn't matter. There are also many, many, MANY, self anointed Doms, Dommes and Tops who serve the equivalent function of a single tail whip attached to a fan blade. Like your friend, they just don't realize who really is in control.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:06:53 PM   
liltxsubby


Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline 		I don't have much insight to this, but maybe just a little. I am most definitely a sub, and Fangs is Dominant. He does, however, from time to time like pain. He doesn't ask for it, either. He pretty much demands that I give it to him. Nothing like a spanking, but a hard bite on the neck or having his nipples pinched hard.

We've gotten to the point that he moves a certain way and I know he's telling me to inflict pain. I don't become dominant in that moment, and he does not become submissive. I'm doing and he's getting what he demands.



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Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:07:12 PM   
liltxsubby


Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline 		OOPS. Double post. How'd that happpen?



< Message edited by liltxsubby -- 6/6/2005 4:08:41 PM >

_____________________________

I'm Japan and Godzilla has taken over.

Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:10:19 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The point is not to say what is a true D/s relationship or to determine if this one is or not. I’m looking at who has the upper hand. It is obvious that she has all the authority and calls most of the shots.


We've been discussion this in depth on another board I'm on for some time now.
You get varied reactions. The submissive or slave is always in command of the situation because they have a safe word and can stop play at any time.

Then of course you also have topping from the bottom.

A submissive will tell you they give up control to the dominant but do they truly?
I really have never used a safe word, yet at the same time my dom respects my opinions enough to listen to me when I speak.
Some could say that is me being in control. Some would say that is him in control still.

I honestly don't think anyone will ever agree.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:17:08 PM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		No big deal. She's a domme, and a bottom. Two different axes.

And yes, I've seen this several times.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 4:45:01 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline 		Maybe she falls more under the
Switch catagory.

*Brightspot

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But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:03:11 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I wish more masochists would admit their masochism and not frustrate themselves and others by forcing into a submissive position. It's unfortunately part of wiitwd that switches aren't very respected generally and bottom/masochist is supposed to be the sub.

People don't get "exceptions" against the norm.

(in reply to brightspot)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:04:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Like your friend, they just don't realize who really is in control.


Well she is starting to realise now. She finds this very interesting and is making her question many things about her relationship dynamics.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:07:30 PM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

Maybe she falls more under the
Switch catagory.


Maybe, but I see no indication whatsoever of that in LadyAngelikas post.







(in reply to brightspot)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:13:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I wish more masochists would admit their masochism and not frustrate themselves and others by forcing into a submissive position. It's unfortunately part of wiitwd that switches aren't very respected generally and bottom/masochist is supposed to be the sub.

People don't get "exceptions" against the norm.


Well in her defense, she can only admit it after figuring it out. As I explained in another post earlier today, most of what is published, discussed, talked about re: wiitwd is largely D/s or M/s based with some mix S&M into it. Which is fine. But it makes it difficult sometimes to isolate the S&M issues.

I was exactly in the same space that she was when I met Rapier. He is the one who showed me exactly what submitting meant and he did get me there and I realised it wasn't me at all. But I finally understood what it was. And then I realised I was a Domme with an occasional desire to bottom in an S&M dynamic. Rapier is still willing to oblige ;)

But I think that it would be easier for masochist to not have to think they have to be subs if for example, sites like these wouldn't ask you what you identify as and then limit you to Dominant, sub, slave or switch...

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:19:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raphael

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

Maybe she falls more under the
Switch catagory.


Maybe, but I see no indication whatsoever of that in LadyAngelikas post.


Yeah. She isn't a switch.

She doesn't like Topping in the S&M or sexual sense. That doesn't mean she can't be provocative or assertive. It just means that she lures someone only to then say "have your way with me... until I say stop!". She is a total tease that way! <weg>

She is however extremely socially dominant, an extrovert and a born leader. I've seen her with many partners and I always suspected a Domme in her. I don't see her interactions in this relationship because unfortunately she is in SF now and we don't see each other so often. But from what she described to me, I couldn't help but point out what I observed.

As I said, she is thinking about this now.

- LA




_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Raphael)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:22:50 PM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

But I think that it would be easier for masochist to not have to think they have to be subs if for example, sites like these wouldn't ask you what you identify as and then limit you to Dominant, sub, slave or switch...

- LA


Yes, that always pisses me off.

Just shows that the person that coded the site was clueless about WIWD, I suppose, but it also helps to perpetuate the cluelessness. Which is a shame.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 5:26:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Just shows that the person that coded the site was clueless about WIWD, I suppose, but it also helps to perpetuate the cluelessness.


That would not be the conclusion that I would come to. I would say that perhaps it was not well thought out, or maybe it was a conscious decision made to cater to the majority. This is actually a site called "collarme" and collars are more a M/s and sometimes D/s thing but to my knowledge (and I've never claimed to know everything) not an S&M thing.

Anyhow, this reaches the point of my post that people like my friend doesn't really fit into any prefab category. For the record, like me, she is not a lifestyler. She is simply kinky and interested in wiitwd.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Raphael)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 7:51:46 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
L A,
I believe that any D/s relationship where the submissive half has limits or ponders a 'safe-word' during a session and/or dictates the frequency, time, tools, and method of play is in actuality, like your friend, a top in need of a sensation such as spanking. Basically your friend is in charge. Her partner may be applying the spanking, but as your scenario documents, she knows and acts "exactly how to get it".

There are MANY more self identified subs falling into this category than actual submissives. But as long as each party gets what they want and knows "exactly how to get it" - it doesn't matter.

I agree completely, especially with self identified subs you mention; it seems they like novice Dominas a lot... I guess we have to learn somehow, lol.
I definitely agree LA that your friend is the Domme... Good for her on finging a good sub while not looking for one.. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 6/6/2005 7:54:05 PM >

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 8:15:16 PM   
SteelBondager


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But I think that it would be easier for masochist to not have to think they have to be subs if for example, sites like these wouldn't ask you what you identify as and then limit you to Dominant, sub, slave or switch...


I agree. I would add that "bottom" and "masochist" are two different distinctions too; something many get wrong. For example: I topped a woman whom I bound in leather and furs. I gave her wine and fed her chocolate. Nothing I did to her fell under masochism (including all the steamy details I've omitted), nor was this her mindset. She was certainly bottom, not masochistic.

I think it would also be helpful to select who we're looking for, in addition to selecting who we are, and letting people search based on that criteria.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 11:04:32 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		"So, Bob, you member me telling you about that freaky slut that I"m keeping across town? You know, the one who likes it rough? Well, I went over there the other night and was smacking her little ass (she likes that you know), and just when I was about to fuck her, she says to me " My friend says I'm your Mistress, and you're my submissive". I damn near peed myself. Oh well, as long as she keeps letting me tie her up, smack her around a little, and bang her, let her call it whatever she likes."

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Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 11:29:39 PM   
strikingamatch


Posts: 24
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I painted the scenario back to her with the objective of making her realise she was a Domme. She seemed baffled. “I always saw myself as the submissive because I like to get spanked” she responded. And we talked more and slowly she came to the realisation that the D/s dynamics were exactly the opposite of what she though they were.

The point is not to say what is a true D/s relationship or to determine if this one is or not. I’m looking at who has the upper hand. It is obvious that she has all the authority and calls most of the shots.

- LA



I agree with you that she is actually the domme in this relationship. I have frequently wondered about professional dommes, if they are truly dommes, or are they actually submissive to the guy, giving him what he needs.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/6/2005 11:37:49 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

"So, Bob, you member me telling you about that freaky slut that I"m keeping across town? You know, the one who likes it rough? Well, I went over there the other night and was smacking her little ass (she likes that you know), and just when I was about to fuck her, she says to me " My friend says I'm your Mistress, and you're my submissive". I damn near peed myself. Oh well, as long as she keeps letting me tie her up, smack her around a little, and bang her, let her call it whatever she likes."



oooooooooooooo that was too funny. Though i could care less to figure otu what you "mean" by it.. i can picture the scenario and it was great = )

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Surprise! You aren’t the sub, you’re the Domme! - 6/7/2005 3:45:46 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

"So, Bob, you member me telling you about that freaky slut that I"m keeping across town? You know, the one who likes it rough? Well, I went over there the other night and was smacking her little ass (she likes that you know), and just when I was about to fuck her, she says to me " My friend says I'm your Mistress, and you're my submissive". I damn near peed myself. Oh well, as long as she keeps letting me tie her up, smack her around a little, and bang her, let her call it whatever she likes."


Wow.

Well first of all, I never said she was his Mistress. I said I thought she was more Domme then she thought. And if I know her, and I know her very well, she will make a statement like "I think", not "my friend says" cos she's assertive like that ;)

Second of all, she isn't the freaky slut he is keeping across town. He is in love and devoted to her. And their relationship is based on more then "banging".

Good attempt at interpretation Leo, but you are so way off the mark ;) But I agree with you that we should call it whatever we like! She calls this "her relationship".

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 6/7/2005 3:49:43 AM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Leonidas)
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