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Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:28:57 AM

chrisy

Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
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Can a female really be dominant, naturally? It seems that men are this way instinctively and that for the female it is something put on or forced. Males naturally take charge. They want to protect, provide and usually use as they please. Females, however, are nurturing, want to be provided for and protected and have their needs met in a passive way.

i have noticed that female dominants want all the same things as female subs do, that they (FemDom's) just go about having those needs met in an overtly bossy manner.It does not seem that they crave the control as males do.

Any opinions of thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Post #: 1

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:50:29 AM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
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The most naturally Dominant person I have ever met was female, and it was certainly not put on or forced. I have met Dominants, both male and female, who do fake it, but would not agree that Dominance has anything to do with gender. If your argument was to hold water, it would have to account for the fact that male submissives seem to outnumber females 10 to 1. How would your theory account for that?
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 2

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:52:24 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Well, you are wrong. Many women crave the control. I certainly do. The control is the aspect of D/s relationships I crave the most. I think you are making some sweeping generalizations about women in general that are erroneous. Women are NOT all nurturing, want to have their needs met in a passive way or want to be cared for. Some are, certainly. So are some men. Others are not.

Also, do not make the mistake of thinking some generally thought to be feminine traits such as being nurturing are mutually exclusive with dominance. You can nurture and be dominant. Many men do this too. You can be soft spoken and be dominant. You can be nice and be dominant.

I guarantee you I do not want the same things as most female submissives unless you get very general and it comes down to someone to love and someone to love me. But I would be interested in knowing what you think those things are that are so similar to fem subs. I also can assure you that being bossy is a particular style that many of us do not have. I have no need to act "bossy" to get what I want. I get it anyway even if I am polite and soft spoken. It's an attitude, a way of carrying oneself, etc.

The attributes you associate with males are not exclusive to males and do not encompass all males. Gender plays little part in my opinion on who is inclined to be dominant or submissive. I do hope this ends up a positive thread to enlighten you a bit but your assumption that all of us here who are dominant and female certainly could not really be dominant has the potential to incite some passionate responses.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 3

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:54:45 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
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are you viewing or sensing a male who is dominant or a male who is domineering... you have to be able to differentiate between the two traits.

as for your impression of dominant women forcing this or putting it on... you are making judgments based on your limited exposure to a select few & not capable of making a a judgment on the group as a whole... maybe the ones you have encountered are putting it on or forcing the persona but this does not make it true for all female dominants

Your generalizations are again based on your own perceptions.... not all women are nurturing or wish to be provided for. There are many women who are protective & have a take charge attitude... to suggest they aren't is off base because look at the huge number of women who are in high risk positions such as fire fighters, military, law enforcement & so forth

Overall you post is a broad generalization based on a very limited exposure.

If you've made your mind up to your conclusions then there is no sense in debating them & you will never grow from your perceived notions.

Hopefully you wish to grow because when things cease to grow.... they die.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 6/20/2007 6:56:43 AM >

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MstrssPassion

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Post #: 4

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:56:22 AM

chrisy

Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

interesting. you have me thinking

however, i believe most male submissives are in it for the sexual part. am i wrong?

by the way, please know that i am here learning and i enjoy debating. i often play the "devils advocate" because it helps me crystallize my thoughts. i am only giving my impressions and opinions and am very willing to listen to all thoughts! i love when someone can change my view! i am never really set on any one view!

the last thing i want to do here is offend or annoy! :) i did post that in the introduce section!

< Message edited by chrisy -- 6/20/2007 7:01:52 AM >

(in reply to LadyHeart)

Post #: 5

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:56:52 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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It would seem that yes, women can be naturally dominant, but - not necessarily in the same way or using the same means as men nor with the same ends in sight, not necessarily by way of being "overtly bossy" and not necessarily in the bedroom as in every day life; there is a difference between domineering in everyday and dominant in romantic/erotic terms. There is a lot of variation, as in all things human.

I think that what you are working with is a gender stereotype, which whilst it has some truth to it, always has far more exceptions to the rule. Yes, maybe all women are generally more nurturing than men, but there is no measure of this and it can be expressed in many ways - the dominant woman is after all nurturing her submissive male partner, is she not?

At the same time though, I think it is true that when dealing with a partner one doesnt know - providing a professional service to a new client for instance, some degree of skill in acting is required though, especially if its a guy one doesnt find particularly interesting. I dont count that as forced or put on though, its merely a dispassionate expression of a natural inclination that would be very unconvincing if that natural inclination wasnt there to start with.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 6

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:58:10 AM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

As I asked in the other thread you started : are you doing a thesis or something? Your profile and questions don't seem to indicate any real interest in BDSM...
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 7

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:58:24 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Really?

I think mothers are prime examples of how strong the drive to protect can be in women. As for taking what they want, haven't you seen women take what they want? They may use other means than physical force (or not) but they do indeed work hard to take or get what they want.

Have you observed little ones interacting? Often they are encourged or ignored based on adult ideas of what is appropriate but young females can be just as demanding as young males and young males can be just as sweet and gentle as young females.

The idea that we are "naturally" one way or another because of biological sex is disproven simply by looking at me. Even with all the training and abuse I survived it couldn't overcome my own natural drive to be dominant. And my family did indeed try pretty hard to make me submissive to the entire bloody world until they realized that wasn't happening. Then they encouraged me to be the best I could.

If I may, Chrisy, why does this matter to you?

You don't identify as a dominant woman in your profile nor as a lesbian or bisexual so how is it important to you? How exactly does other women expressing their own dominance affect you any more than you expressing your own submissiveness affect us?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 8

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 6:59:22 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

interesting. you have me thinking

however, i believe most male submissives are in it for the sexual part. am i wrong?

this is the point we are trying to make... just because YOU (or me or anyone for that matter) believes something to be true doesn't make it true

you are attempting to make your truth/belief to be the end all to all truths/beliefs & truth can be & is forever evolving & beliefs will change as facts are gathered

to answer your question... neither right or wrong

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 6/20/2007 7:03:09 AM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 9

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:00:02 AM

jimbo747

Posts: 109
Joined: 10/6/2006
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Women and men both like to have their needs meet and to be nurtured, women are better by nature at nurturing. Women protect their families. Stay out of her way, she's knows how to take care of the household. Don't ever get in her way. The lioness likely will bite your head off to protect her family.

I've been involved in sales for some time. I know from experience it is the woman who has the final say if or if not a purchase is made. To this day, I pitch to the women because they are the ones who influence the sales more.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 10

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:00:48 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

interesting. you have me thinking

however, i believe most male submissives are in it for the sexual part. am i wrong?

Not the men I've trained and owned. I haven't been with out a sub or slave for more than a month or two in the 16 years I've been consciously doing BDSM.

Again these are generalizations and a lot of people make them on CM I notice so you aren't alone in that.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 11

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:01:55 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

however, i believe most male submissives are in it for the sexual part. am i wrong?

Again, there are both men and women who are into this for kinky sex. But D/s is not all about sex and for some sex is not even a part of the equation. So, no, I don't think your assessment is correct. Many men serve out of a desire to please a woman. Every dynamic, though, is different. Some incorporate sexual activity, some incorporate sadism, some incorporate domestic service...and every combination thereof.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 12

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:03:14 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

interesting. you have me thinking

however, i believe most male submissives are in it for the sexual part. am i wrong?

by the way, please know that i am here learning and i enjoy debating. i often play the "devils advocate" because it helps me crystallize my thoughts. i am only giving my impressions and opinions and am very willing to listen to all thoughts! i love when someone can change my view!

Put it this way - I have a little guy who comes to see me occasionally; he's totally impotent - not a flicker of anything going on down there, and I know from others that its not just me or because of what I am/was etc. Is he doing it for sexual reasons? Maybe or definitely psycho-sexual reasons, but there aint nothin' happening!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 13

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:07:11 AM

jimbo747

Posts: 109
Joined: 10/6/2006
Status: offline

At the commenecment it was about sex. But I prefer (now) to serve a woman without being topped by her. The thrill is to please. Submission extends past sex for me.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 14

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:10:51 AM

nonu

Posts: 139
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Cochin, India
Status: offline

Yes, women can indeed be naturally dominant. You may see it as a new, evolving species, or as a trait that has so far been suppressed or even hidden in women. It is true that some women feel dominant towards men while others don't. Similarly, there are men who like to have control over women, while others like me don't.

There are simply no rules - each one of us is different from the other in millions of ways - this is one amongst them. Like they say, we're all wired differently. That's why we have dominants, submissives and switches amongst us - whether male, female, TV, TS or others.

As far as wants and needs are concerned, you have rightly pointed out that Femdoms may be similar to submissive women, but this would hold true only in certain cases. The wants of a dominant woman would ideally differ from that of a submissive, particularly from the mental perspective. A dominant woman, for example, wouldn't want her male partner to make the decisions, because it is after all, more about HER needs being met than his. She may look for the emotional bond with her male partner that a submissive woman also seeks, but when it comes to priorities, she puts herself first. (Ah, that's what makes them so attractive, isn't it?)

A submissive male would more likely be willing to accept and honour the choices and decisions made by a Femdom, rather than trying to implement his own ideas and voicing his own opinions all the time. His way of thinking is totally different from the Alpha male, because he always places the needs of the Femdom before his own, and would usually go as far as possible to make her happy. It is this acceptance of control by him that makes him a submissive, just the way HER desire to be in control makes her a Dominant.

And yes, they both exist in this very same world!

_____________________________

We're all different....until we realise that we're all the same, and vice versa...

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 15

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:12:38 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

for the female it is something put on or forced

One other thing. If I had a dime for all the times I have had men come to me talking about how they feel they have to "put on" or "force" a persona of dominance in the work place or in society in general, I'd be rich. People in general have a natural tendency to be who they are and it crosses gender orientations. Because of societal norms, some people act in a manner that is contrary to their natural tendencies. This goes all ways. Male, female, sub and dom often act in a manner they think is more acceptable even though their natural tendency is toward ___.

So, I think you may be confusing dominance in some males with their outward persona. You may be mistaking forcing with fem doms with them being themselves. Fact is, there are naturally dominant, naturally submissive, naturally vanilla and naturally switchy males and females.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 16

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:17:22 AM

queencaliph

Posts: 131
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline

Strange you should say that. I was taught that my whole life and for most of my life I tried to mold myself into the image of the "Submissive woman." It was completely contrary to my nature and it took me years to finally come to terms with my Dominant side. Yes, females are nurturing and I consider myself a nurturer. but have you looked up the definition of nurturing?

nur-ture
-verb (used with object)

1.
to feed and protect: to nurture one's offspring.

2.
to support and encourage, as during the period of training or development; foster: to nurture promising musicians.

3.
to bring up; train; educate. –noun

4.
rearing, upbringing, training, education, or the like.

5.
development: the nurture of young artists.

6.
something that nourishes; nourishment; food.

All that training and educating and protecting and developing sounds like a Dom/me doesn't it? Regardless of the gender steretypes that are put upon us in society both men and women are nuturers as well as protectors, and providers and both want to be protected, provided for and have our needs met. Both genders sometimes want this done in a passive way and sometimes decide to take charge of it ourselves.

Never forget the most dangerous animal you can run across is a mother protecting her young. Nature designed us this way. To me, submissivness in women seems to be forced. Why else would churches and society in general spend so much time "teaching" submissiveness to women?

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 17

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:21:05 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I just wanted to jump on what MsKatHouston said.

I think most people are not dominant by nature. I think most people tend to be more followers than leaders. I think then the next category is loners over leaders - not wanting to follow but also having no interest in leading. Leaders or people who are naturally and healthily dominant seem very rare.

This is only what I have observed in meatlife and history. It is not any sort of scientific proclamation or objective truth.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 18

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:23:03 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: queencaliph

Never forget the most dangerous animal you can run across is a mother protecting her young. Nature designed us this way. To me, submissivness in women seems to be forced. Why else would churches and society in general spend so much time "teaching" submissiveness to women?

*clappping loudly*

I have to say that I agree.

When a society spends so much time telling groups what they "naturally" are or what they should like, do, or expect, it starts to seem a lot like the society is really trying to control nature not correspond to it.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to queencaliph)

Post #: 19

RE: Naturally Dominant - 6/20/2007 7:26:53 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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I am naturally Dominant and I have no desire whatsoever to submit to anyone. I have always had the need to make my own decisions and to be in control. I am very protective and I do have a need to provide for my family. I do not have a lot in the way of nurturing as my thinking is geared more towards logic.

For Me this is natural. It is in no way forced nor did my parents specifically set out to train me to be this way. I simply AM this way, just as many other Dominants of both genders are.

To me giving up my freedom is a sentance worse than death. There have always been Fe/male Dominants and submissives, gender has nothing to do with it, its all in your personality.

You refer to Femdoms as being "bossy" that is a stereotype and no more true than the one regarding all submissives as "weak" or "inferior".

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 20

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