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RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/20/2007 2:33:47 PM

MasterMagnus321

Posts: 86
Joined: 10/4/2005
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I agree with ELUSIVE1 ; there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality, and I think that difference exists in good and bad BDSM experiences also. Bad BDSM and religion both contain arbitrary sets of rules made up by someone I've never met, other mere mortals struggling and floundering along, looking for training wheels or a hand rail to lean on; good BDSM and spirituality are connected to the infinite with sets of spiritual principles woven into ropes that connect and create us (and sometimes bind us... ).

< Message edited by MasterMagnus321 -- 6/20/2007 2:34:52 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing lasts, and yet nothing passes, either.
And nothing passes just because nothing lasts.
-Philip Roth

~MASTERMAGNUS

(in reply to DragonNphoenix)

Post #: 21

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/22/2007 10:49:52 AM

Supernatural

Posts: 26
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

I am glad to see someone post this question. I can not even start to answer this question for anyone else. As for me I entered into this lifestyle seeking a slave that wants to "make her master her religion". I read a subs profile once that said it beautifully "... and when they die I will cast myself onto there funiral pyre ... to rather follow them into the after life then to live without them ...". Or something like that. It might be a bit extreme but to each there own. If that is the way you desire your relationship to be then it is no different than anyone else having the right to their own "kink".

_____________________________

"A man must not deny his manifest abilities, for that is to evade his obligations."
--William Feather

"If punishment makes not the will supple it hardens the offender."
--John Locke

(in reply to dragone)

Post #: 22

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/22/2007 10:57:10 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

Bdrm is not the driving force in my life and on other hand it isn't on the back burner either..A religion no ,bdsm is just a way I enjoy living my life... there is a lot to be said about the sharing of spirituality, giving of ones soul to share with another.....bounty

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 6/22/2007 11:00:38 AM >

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to Supernatural)

Post #: 23

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/22/2007 11:39:02 AM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

Dominant as guru (priest, teacher, etc). Does anyone feel this way? That the life is a means of coming to self realization by giving up self? But is that safe? It is wise to give the dominant that much power? Can anyone really be that responsible or enlightened as to know how to handle that position?

Thoughts? Opinions? Am i alone in comparing the two?

~fast reply~

I beg pardon for not reading other answers before responding but I wanted to get my thoughts out clearly, while my thoughts were my own.

Any time anyone puts another into a "god" status, one is asking for problems. Sure we can follow and let ourselves be led, but there comes a point of personal responsibility for one's own well-being. That said, I credit a former Dom for helping me realize that I needed to be in professional therapy (and I was not trying to hear such things for a very long time) I gave credit for my personal happiness to him (he reminded me that we alone are responsible for our own happiness and that giving such credit is far too much responsibility to throw upon another).

I needed therapy. He was right. He came to realize my issues, understood his own weaknesses, and urged me to get the help I needed. I think Doms and Masters can certainly be mentors, guides, teachers ... but such people can be found in all walks of life, in our own lives as submissives and slaves. This does not fall squarely on the shoulders of one's D-type.

Can one person know all, be all, and do all? It is my opinion that it would be impossible. In the end, we are responsible for ourselves. The D/s dynamic is a ~relationship~. If you are inclined to give this sort of power to your Dom or Master, then you are most likely inclined to give this sort of power to your vanilla partner as well. There is no magic here - we are all just people with our own issues.

The sub or slave ~chooses~ to give power to her Other. It does not mean she is foolish enough to believe he is an all-powerful being. At least that is my hope.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 24

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/22/2007 12:19:26 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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I could jam on the fact of being a subs Lord and Savior....It would rock.

Katylied 3:16

For Domiguy so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Domidong, that whosoever believeth in it should not perish, but have an everlasting libido.

Aileen 29:7

7 There came unto Domiguy a woman having an alabaster, cleanly shaven box, and some glimmering silver nipple clamps. Proceeded to give him some righteous head.

8 But when Domiguy's disciples saw them, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9 For these nipple clamps might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10 When Domiguy understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. And she be a total HOTTIE!!!

11 For ye have the poor, the mentors and the teachers and trainers always with you; but me ye have not always.

12 The disciples, ignored by their Lord, dispersed muttering their displeasure as Domiguy wrought down upon thy sub some rather intense and extreme breath restriction and scat play.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 6/22/2007 12:39:39 PM >

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(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 25

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/23/2007 10:17:26 PM

awmslave

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

There has been an attempt to create BDSM Church (Essemian Sanctuary of the Mankind, see darkside-goddess.org). This thing went with some little steam through nineties but apparrently it died because of lack of interest.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 26

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:49:15 AM

stella40

Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline

THE BOOK OF COLLARME

2.11 And it came to pass that a new Domme was expected on Collarme. And for many days and nights the submissives came and logged into their shrine but were overcome by the trolls and the timewasters. 2.12. And the sun would set and the night would come without appearance of this new Domme. 2.13. And to the forum came Thomas, a dominant male from Texas, in a terrible anxious state.

2.14. And Thomas thus wrote, "I am a true Master in Texas, and I have my profile on Collarme for forty days and forty nights, and yet one reply from a female submissive receive I did not." 2.15 And the female submissives of the forum flocked to this posting and checked the profile of this true Master. And they gave their opinions on the thread. And so came angelika, a female submissive from Florida. 2.16. "If Thou art a true Master," she wrote, "then i may wish to serve You Master."

2.17 And this brought great joy to Thomas and such glad tidings, that he responded, "My true slave angelika, pack Thy bags and log into Yahoo! Messenger, and then make your way to Texas where my collar awaits." 2.18 "But Sir," responded angelika, "Your profile is incomplete, and i have not Your photo." 2.19 And thus angelika incurred the wrath of Thomas who spake, "Neither slave nor submissive Thou aren't. Thou art a fake. And this forum is full of fakes who know not the true meaning of BDSM."

2.20 And it came to pass that angelicmessenger did maketh a new thread. 2.21 "Submissives hear my words, for there is a new Domme on Collarme, and her profile is HighPriestessMistressDominaCruella." 2.22 And the male submissives logged onto Collarme to witness this new profile of this new Domme. 2.23 And submissives logged on in California, in Alaska, in Canada, in New Jersey, in Florida, in Georgia, in Scotland, and even in Macedonia. 2.24 And the profile also attracted the attention of the Trolls who came bearing gifts of cryptic messages, textspeak, cookie cutter responses and one liners.

2.25 And for eightscore days and eightscore nights this Domme was beseiged by a great many messages in her Inbox. And some of the messages she received caused her much tribulation. 2.26 One submissive wrote "I am unworthy. Please castrate me." Another wrote, "I am a sissy male. Please feminize me and force me to wear panties and be a woman." 2.27 Some wrote "please Mistress smite me with Thy flogger.." And yet another wrote "I am married to my vanilla wife. She does not understand me. I ask that you have loaves and fish and that you smite me with mackerel in a bathtub until I repent."

2.28 And it came to pass that the Trolls were blocked and their messages deleted. And HighPriestessMistressDominaCruella duly changed her profile, and attached a photo of herself to the profile wearing a leather corset and thigh length boots holding a whip with a gaze so domly. 2.29 And she wrote "I am a true Goddess of fourscore years experience and I demand to be truly worshipped by only true submissives. I demand tributes to be paid and sacrifices to be made. 2.30 I do not do cyber nor do I engage in fornication. I am a true Goddess. 2.31 I practise the corporal arts, I require submissives for domestic service, to pamper and worship me. I shall smite Thee with My flogger and canes, I shall hold Thee in chastity, and I practise financial domination.

2.32 This is My profile and these are My words. 2.33 Thou shalt be male (but can also be female), Thou shall not be a fake, a wannabe or a troll. Thou shalt not be unclean, married, or in any relationship. Thou shalt be a businessman or professional with a car. Thou shalt have a profile and photo on Collarme. 2.34 Thou shalt be submissive. Thou shalt not live out of state and must live within 2 hours drive to service Me at any time.

2.35 And this greatly troubled some submissives, as they felt that asking for tributes was a great sin. 2.36 And some posted on the forum asking, "How can a Domme be worthy of worship if she choose to ask for a tribute? Surely it is I, the submissive bearing the great and valuable gift of submission who is to be worshipped?" 2.37 And it came to pass that this issue was debated for many days and nights on the Collarme forums by dominants and submissives, and slaves and switches. 2.38 And the Trolls came and there ensued many flames and some egos perished in the fiery wrath of indignation of others.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 27

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:54:42 AM

KMsAngel

Posts: 17415
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline

brilliantly done, Stella...

(in reply to stella40)

Post #: 28

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 4:17:34 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

Dominant as guru (priest, teacher, etc). Does anyone feel this way? That the life is a means of coming to self realization by giving up self? But is that safe? It is wise to give the dominant that much power? Can anyone really be that responsible or enlightened as to know how to handle that position?

Thoughts? Opinions? Am i alone in comparing the two?

To a limited Degree.. However, I enjoy the Animalism aspects! Call it primal wicked instincts... I'm not wanting to become a Buddist monk in life, I wanted that I'd be on some religious message board on another website.

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 29

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 5:53:45 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

The similarity I've noted on many occasions is not that BDSM is a religion in itself, but some of its hardcore followers treat it as some hardcore religious followers treat their own religion.

Theirs is the "one true way" and anyone not following it with them are damned. They are somehow better than everyone else because of it and do not hesitate to let those they consider beneath them know it.

Those in positions of power prey on the weak and vulnerable, brainwashing them into following them by using guilt and instilling insecurity in them about their supposed weaknesses.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 30

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 9:11:22 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
I think that there are some submissives who are consciously or unconsciously pursuing D/s or BDSM as an attempt to gain those positives in their lives when in the past they have experienced the negatives of family and religion.

Smartest girl I know at B.com once told me that she felt "We seek in these relationships to find the love we did not receive, but deserved to recieve, from our opposite gender parent."

I thought there was a lot of truth in that, that we wanted something we didn't get, but really should have gotten. I loved the sensitivity of that statement, constructing a need as legitimate as opposed to a signifier for weakness.

I think we have as a species a need to come to grips in some way with meaning in our lives--when mechanists spend time proselytizing, I know we are talking about a deep-seated human need--and no doubt that meaning can be found in multiple ways.

I know people who have "family" as their religion, that is, their base values, belief's and practices center on family and loyalty to family. Their self-image, their center, and their ethos are all in terms of "family." There is no aspect of the numinous in such a religion, but I don't think the numinous is neccessary to religion. A mechanist world-veiw, several existentialist constructions, and Taosist constructions as well have no need for the numinous. My Christianity includes the numinous, but is not predicated on or require it.

So I see no reason why a person might, for example, construct their meaning around a single person. Knowing, obeying, serving, loving, etc one individual person. I don't remember the exact person, but I remember a slave at B.com saying once that in effect she could not honor, worship, or connect with the Godhead. What she could do was honor, worship and connect with her Master as an embodiment or part of the Godhead.

Worked for here I guess :)

CC: I think your point about how "many bring with them ideas, attitudes and habits" that are positive and negative is well taken, although I would choose to say "adaptive" and "maladaptive."

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 31

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:08:53 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

If she believes that I'm God maybe she will suck harder. I'm all for anything that creates better suckers.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to dragone)

Post #: 32

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:35:57 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

Dominant as guru (priest, teacher, etc). Does anyone feel this way? That the life is a means of coming to self realization by giving up self? But is that safe? It is wise to give the dominant that much power? Can anyone really be that responsible or enlightened as to know how to handle that position?

Thoughts? Opinions? Am i alone in comparing the two?

i don't know if it's wise or not to live my life the way that i have. But, i really don't feel comfortable living it any other way. Handing all the power over my life to my Master is what feels right to me. Being under my Master's control is what makes me feel like my natural self. i trust my Master with my life. If i didn't, i couldn't comfortably give Him total power over me. If i didn't trust Him with my life, i couldn't allow myself to be used the way that He uses me but, because i do trust Him, i am at peace knowing that He can do whatever He chooses with me and i love that feeling.

my Master is the most important person in my life and i rely on Him for everything i need to be safe, healthy, and well cared for, although i don't consider Him to be a guru, priest or teacher. He is my Owner and in charge of my life.

____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to chrisy)

Post #: 33

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:49:34 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

I generally agree with most of the posts on this: people can turn anything into a religion, if they really want to. You can end up worshiping a cock or cunt as easily as the (alleged) creator of the universe. Hell, a great many people follow a religion that was started over a bar room bet. (scientology) Personally, I look to my Domme(s) as more of a guide and a person "in the know" rather than an absolute authority. Think more of Yoda, or a sensei Master, rather than the Pope. The difference is, they usually seduce/convince me into beleiving/doing as they want, rather than simply laying down arbitrary commandments. (It's the difference between christianity, and Christianity... {with a capital "C"} one asks for my cooperation, the other demands it.)

(in reply to dragone)

Post #: 34

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 1:59:44 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir
............"We seek in these relationships to find the love we did not receive, but deserved to recieve, from our opposite gender parent."

I thought there was a lot of truth in that, that we wanted something we didn't get, but really should have gotten. I loved the sensitivity of that statement, constructing a need as legitimate as opposed to a signifier for weakness.

This is a very interesting concept and probably true for a lot of people. It just so happens, though, that it is the opposite case for me. i have recognized, for a very long time, that my need to be submissive to a very strong Dominant man, is based largely on my desire to regain what i felt i had with and from my father, not an attempt to get what i never had.

my father was my first Dominant and i was totally submissive to Him. i never disobeyed Him and i loved doing anything and everything i could to please Him. He was my first love and my deepest love and when He was taken from my life, at my tender age of 10, it caused me deep pain and sadness and resulted in an incessant urge to have that type of relationship again and with the desire of it being a lasting one.

____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 35

RE: BDSm as Religion - 6/24/2007 2:46:06 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

BDSM as religion... Religion is faith, trust, belief in something different and larger than yourself, which will eventually result in your fulfillment. This parallels the relationship between narcissistic master and co-dependent slave. Rarely does either actually find fulfillment.

BDSM as spirituality... Spirituality is about spirit -- YOUR OWN. Bdsm itself is a shamanic process of cause and effect, driving one to expand their awareness through various energetic stimuli. A critical lesson is that the source of the feeling (in contrast with sense perception) is not any external cause or object, but that your spirit is the experiencer of fulfillment which arises in the only place you have ever felt it -- your own heart. The experience is shared with a partner(s), like telling a story, but is never given or taken.

The dichotomy is embodied in the unending debate about whether a slave has free choice and self will, or not.

Since it is our spirit which experiences fulfillment as the motive for everything we do, every action is ultimately spiritual.

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 6/24/2007 2:48:36 PM >

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 36

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