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RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 3:16:28 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Reposted:
Lots of people need breaking, or at least breaking of lots of bad habits. I had to break my local partner of a LOT of things before we could become serious together.

Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

Damnest thing I was just talking about this a few days ago with somebody.  I have to back you up on the reality of breaking somebody down and bringing them up again takes a lot of time and energy.   Personaly, I'd rather just stick to working with what I got, and breaking what needs to be broken down and rebuilt for sake of improvement.   Bad habits as LA expressed here, a lot of people are in need of breaking. 

Thought I should mention this one.  Not only do sub/slaves get broken in, us Domly types get broken in as well. LOL...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 6:00:36 AM   
taintedgypsy


Posts: 228
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		The concept of breaking a woman (though I know it is possible to do this to men I am only dealing with my own experiences here) does not belong to BDSM, it belongs to a variety of abusive relationships that can be found in all walks of life.

Take a woman especially one with a bad background and/ self esteem problems, even better one with both and looking for love and approval that she has never had. Make her feel speacial, tell her you love her, separate her from family and friends, mix voilence in with kindness, keep her off ballance and confused, make her dependant on you for all in life by securing that she has little or no independance, keep her guessing and make her fear making mistakes while changing the rules regularly so she has no chance to suceed. Continually set her up for failure, while reminding her how disappointed in her you are, but how you love her anyway. Make sure she understands that she bought the beatings on herself, if only she could learn to be quiet, to accept that he new best, to understand how lucky she was to have you as no one else would put up with her failings. Mind fucking at a truely masterful level, so gradual and carefully done that the woman does not even realise what is being done to her and even if she does start to question, she is so off ballance and confused she can not put it together. Hey presto, she breaks and keeps quiet, does what she is told and appoligises for causing him to hit her and promises to try harder in the future. Dinner on the table, place spotless, ironing done, the word "no" ceases to exist, he says jump and she asks how high literally. No longer a person in her own right just an accessory to his life ... and 20yrs later still trying to recover, to reclaim herself. This to me is breaking someone's spirit and it is an evil thing.

As a matter of fact I have not come accross it online or in R/T BDSM events. I hear alot about punishment, obeidience and behavioural modifacation but all has been put forward with a regard for the wellbeing of the sub/slave and most of the Domme/Doms have appeared to value spirit and inteligence in their property. Even the term property is something valued, property to be looked after, cared for and nurtured. Even "beatings"are referred to on the boards they are not presented as mindless rage, or used to induce fear ... they are expressed in terms of learning, punishment that is given with real understanding of the reasons. Rarely do you hear of Doms bragging about how much damage they have done in a reasonless random act of voilence simply to put a girl off balance and induce fear ... I do not think there are many on the boards who would not flame such a thing if it did happen.

I had a fear that such would be found in BDSM, my first profile listed that I wanted my fire controlled not extinguished ... I looked long and hard for signs of such breaking of women and over time came to understand that such abusive relationships exist everywhere including within BDSM however not in an greater percentage than anywhere else and that the type of bastard that needed to break a woman to feel dominant was not any more likely to be found within BDSM as he was to be found in the local pub.

Just my opinion and experience.





_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 6:21:02 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

in as: becca333
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Because of the fact we're horse people, breaking to me involves breaking the spirit. My oldest's present show horse came broken from a rough barn. It's taken a year and a half for him to get over his constant fear of being beaten for the slightest mistake. As a result of this, you couldn't ask him to do something new, he would panic.

Training or gentling so someone learns a new skill with passion and enthusiasm is great. Doing things out of fear is not my idea of a good relationship. It's the essence of an abusive one.


So instead of breaking we need to go a different way.

Maybe people could call in a Sub Whisperer?

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 8:02:13 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

 


What constitutes 'huge'?  The army does this kind of thing every day. Of course, they have pretty limited goals, but boot camp certainly has an impact on people's outlook.  I've noticed that the military is attractive to some teens just because they have this expectation of being 'broken down and built back up', although I'm not sure that what gets built up is always what they were hoping for.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 12:25:34 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

 


What constitutes 'huge'?  The army does this kind of thing every day. Of course, they have pretty limited goals, but boot camp certainly has an impact on people's outlook.  I've noticed that the military is attractive to some teens just because they have this expectation of being 'broken down and built back up', although I'm not sure that what gets built up is always what they were hoping for.


In my case, I was pretty happy with what they had built by the time they had finished.  If I had been able to maintain more of that discipline when I left the service, I perhaps would not have had some of my later troubles.

But, you do point out a perfect example of the idea that breaking someone down can be done without ruining them and, in fact, turning them into something that fits the dynamic called for better. 

It does not have to be completely breaking someone...either physically or emotionally...it can be something as simple as breaking bad habits and finding other things to fit in their place.  It can be bringing organization to a life of chaos or finding ways to help a submissive loosen up their uptight outlook.  Perhaps "taming" or "gentling" a spirit is a better term for it but it can be done successfully and positively.

(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 1:06:20 PM   
QuietlySeeking


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Maybe people could call in a Sub Whisperer?


Water spit out on to the keyboard.....is there somewhere I could learn this? LOL

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 1:15:14 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		<sigh>

Has no-one read or considered 'Taming of the Shrew'?  The concept is the same.

You start with a person who is headstrong, willful.  Someone who has no inclination of subservience to others, and possibly not even obedient to the world at large.  Possibly someone unaware of the traits we espouse in submissives.  Possibly not even begin to consider themself in that manner.  To some, these might be good traits, bad traits, or a challenge.  You throw in another individual who has whatever it takes to get that willful person to acknowledge their submission to that person and possibly that person alone.  A force of nature to whom that willful person responds

Romantic?  Perhaps.  Probably depends on how you defined headstrong and willful above.

But in the end, isn't that what one would also consider a prize?

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 1:55:25 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		Master said he would break me down. He did.

What he meant was that he would strip me down to my core, find out my strengths and weaknesses and work with them (and around them and through them) to enhance the power we both have. I have some issues - he helps me with them - but he needs to know what they are first and he had to know how best to get past them. It works pretty well, although nothing works ~all~ the time. When we have to, we stop, regroup, and try something different.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 1:59:31 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Jeff, do you really want someone who would agree with your every idea? Including all the bad ones?

The Man doesn't. Part of what I do for him is be a sounding board, the one person who he knows is one his side, so when I say he's going overboard he knows it's for real. My job description includes using my own knowledge base and common sense to tell him when he's totally off base, not to urge him on to greater mistakes by agreeing that black is white.

YMMV, of course.

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 2:08:03 PM   
leatherette


Posts: 255
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Maybe people could call in a Sub Whisperer?


Water spit out on to the keyboard.....is there somewhere I could learn this? LOL


Quietlyseeking:

Please wipe off your keyboard ;)

http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/

(in reply to QuietlySeeking)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 3:43:09 PM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		power exchange relationship are just that hopefully, an exchange. The dominant swaps power with the submissive to mutual benefit. It is not a parasitic relationship to prop up a ego of the dominant, at the subs expense.
When i first entered a D/s relationship. I had been a successful career woman, a single parent etc, there wasnt a history of submissive persona. I was a fully functioning person, without old issues to deal with.
But i did have a lot of training, in how to please him, we monopolised on the qualities that inspired his dominance, and similarly, on the qualities that inspired my submission. I was not 'broken down' to be rebuilt. I did not require breaking, i required training. And i learnt this:
behave in a way that pleases him = good for us
behave in a way that displeases him, and the 'goodies' stopped coming. Now that is operant conditioning, behaviour modification, whatever you wish to call it. But it was a mutually beneficial process that we did for the good of US, not just him.
Over the years, he took control of more and more. Organising things for me, nuturing and caring for his. As per contract.
Now, moving on and no longer in that relationship, i still have all the life skills, i need. Im able to run my own house, organise and interstate move, plus a return to my home country in 6 months, i do not feel 'lost' because he is not doing these things for me. Im not broken, he has not broken me, he has assisted me in remaining a entact, together person, who has the continued inner strength to be true to myself. Not at all broken, but trained as his submissive.
I had a heap of vanilla traits that i needed to ditch as a submissive during that part of my journey. To go from totally independant and successful, to submissive and successful was a tricky journey. And lots of training, but never did he 'break' me. Nurtured yes, brake, no.
I would consider it irresponsible to make someone so dependant upon you, that were you drop dead, your submissive would not survive independance. And perhaps run into the arms of those ever willing, dominants that hunt for such prey.

And know yourself enough, to recognise when someone is NOT acting for the good of you. That way, you can respectfully discuss this when it occurs with your dominant. Because it will if its a relationship of length. Dominants are human, they do dumbass things sometimes, just like everyone else. Some orders are not wise. Educate yourself well enough to spot them. 
The word NO, should never be uttered. But the request to discuss a issue your having difficulty with and why, should always be open to honest discussion and renegotian. My way or the high way, is rare.
pandoravampire


(in reply to leatherette)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 4:06:35 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Jeff, do you really want someone who would agree with your every idea? Including all the bad ones?

The Man doesn't. Part of what I do for him is be a sounding board, the one person who he knows is one his side, so when I say he's going overboard he knows it's for real. My job description includes using my own knowledge base and common sense to tell him when he's totally off base, not to urge him on to greater mistakes by agreeing that black is white.

YMMV, of course.


Celeste, I never referred to how 'right' a dominant has to be.  The point of my post is to point out that there are submissives who are really only capable of submitting to one person, or a very small subset of people who resonate with that submissive in such a way that they respond.

In the getting-to-know-you phase with my partner, she made it clear that she wanted to be heard on issues.  She also made it clear that once I had any input I needed to make a decision, that those decisions were mine to make.  I have shown that I'm capable of leading, but listenening as well.

Other things have come to light that would indicate that the 'Taming' correlation holds.  But I believe that far too many people in the thread are taking the 'breaking' term in quite the opposite direction than how many responsible people in the Lifestyle believe.

I have my own definition of 'broken', but it has nothing to do with spirit.  Certainly in no damaging way.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: To be "broken" - 6/21/2007 6:50:01 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with you pandoravampire. Training is important, leaving the person intact with their life-coping skills is crucial ... the only breaking Master has done to me is to break a habit i never knew i had ... i used to rock and move a lot when speaking to people (even when i was on the phone!). It was entirely unconscious so i could never have dealt with this alone ... even now when i occasionally start doing it i am still unaware until i catch His warning eye ... but i am so grateful to Him for dealing with an unnerving habit. Of course He has trained me in many ways ... i know what He likes to eat and drink, i know He likes to be punctual etc etc ... and i now respond to those likes by modifying my own behaviour to meet His needs. But, (heaven forbid) should anything happen to Him and i ended up with another Master, that training could be readily re-moulded to meet another Master's needs.

In the same light, as animal lovers, I never think of "breaking" an animal. I think of training it ... and re-training it as necessary. For eg, at our previous house, the dogs had permanent access through a dog-door to the yard to do toilet business. That isn't possible with the layout of house and yard here ... they escaped once already and we don't want to re-live that nightmare ... so now they only get to go outside at certain times under supervision. This has taken some considerable re-training ... involving scolding (no rubbing noses or other such punishment) when mistakes are made and LOTS of praise and reward when the right thing is done. They're doing fine! They're definitely not broken ... just happily retrained dogs.

While I can accept that some people can put a positive spin on the word "breaking" ... it's not for Me as Domme or sub. And I turn away from subs that say they need breaking ... it sounds to Me that they are not willing to submit and I am simply not wanting to bring that much hard work and conflict into My life! I want one who knows s/he wants to submit ... and just wants guidance from Me as to how to do so to please Me.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to pandoravampire)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: To be "broken" - 6/22/2007 10:30:40 AM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Jeff, do you really want someone who would agree with your every idea? Including all the bad ones?

The Man doesn't. Part of what I do for him is be a sounding board, the one person who he knows is one his side, so when I say he's going overboard he knows it's for real. My job description includes using my own knowledge base and common sense to tell him when he's totally off base, not to urge him on to greater mistakes by agreeing that black is white.

YMMV, of course.


Celeste, I never referred to how 'right' a dominant has to be.  The point of my post is to point out that there are submissives who are really only capable of submitting to one person, or a very small subset of people who resonate with that submissive in such a way that they respond.

In the getting-to-know-you phase with my partner, she made it clear that she wanted to be heard on issues.  She also made it clear that once I had any input I needed to make a decision, that those decisions were mine to make.  I have shown that I'm capable of leading, but listenening as well.

Other things have come to light that would indicate that the 'Taming' correlation holds.  But I believe that far too many people in the thread are taking the 'breaking' term in quite the opposite direction than how many responsible people in the Lifestyle believe.

I have my own definition of 'broken', but it has nothing to do with spirit.  Certainly in no damaging way.

Jeff


Just to expand on what Master has said...

First of all, believe me, he didnt get himself a 'yes girl'.  I question EVERYTHING...not just with him, but everything, all the time, in all aspects of life, right down to the juicy core of every person, place, and thing in the universe.  I take nothing at face value and scoff at the mere notion that I should do so.  But we're both crazy contingency planners so it's probably not as annoying as it could be with a less obsessive Dom.  He does think things through thoroughly, and anything that helps arm him with more knowledge to do so in an informed manner is welcome.  And that goes a long way toward helping me trust him to take some of that controlling overthinking off my shoulders.  Which is definitely not something I'd be willing to even consider letting most people do.  And believe me, he knows it and reminds me whenever he gets the chance! lol

And at least for me, that's how I see 'breaking' or 'taming'.  It is a breaking of my previous system of doing things, of taking care of and micromanaging everything for myself, of even believing I need to.  And learning to trust.  Him.  And in that way it is exactly like 'taming' a wild animal.  Which when done correctly is nothing more than reaching the animal through its fear and teaching it that it can trust you.  I've a long history of taming and taking-in ferals, strays, and unruly animals myself...and sometimes with Master it definitely feels like I'm on the other side of that process.  So here's hoping it ends as well with us as it has for my incredibly spoilt lil furballs!

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Flannery O’Connor

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: To be "broken" - 6/24/2007 8:26:04 PM   
xxxWENCHxxx


Posts: 45
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		chrisy, what LadyHeart was referring to is because of so many fakes and wannbes that show up here .... do not be so harsh on those who question you .... use that question as a learning tool to check your own motives from time to time to see if your morals, thoughts and feelings still hold true to yourself ....

another thing, it would do you well to read Shakespeare's "The Taming of the Shrew" ... when you are done you may have a very different outlook on the phrase "breaking of a submissive" .... I'll leave the surprise of this for you to investigate into ..... those who have read it will understand ....



_____________________________

"Out of my mind. Back in 5 minutes."

DEJA MOO ... the feeling Y/you've heard this bull somewhere before !!!

"Chaos, panic and disorder .... my work here is done."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: To be "broken" - 6/24/2007 9:42:36 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, the novice has a concept in mind that needs to be batted around a bit... Let's see if I have things down right:

Breaking a sub ==>  Rendering a submissive totally dependent on a master.  Unable to function without instructions of a dominant.

Breakin in a sub ===>  Teaching a sub the individual preferences and expectations of a particular master.

Thoughts for consideration,
Stefan

(in reply to xxxWENCHxxx)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: To be "broken" - 6/24/2007 10:03:14 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		Broken.....render inoperable, some times can be mended..what if you can't....Teaching,passing on knowledge,retaining some of her sprite,some of herself,letting her grow as a slave makes a better one then in your face a beaten down one..BUT as always just my views on traning... the ol' master

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: To be "broken" - 6/25/2007 2:43:43 AM   
blksubman


Posts: 2
Joined: 5/30/2004
Status: offline 		The whole process of breaking a sub in the simpliest of terms relates to the process of turning a sub into a slave. In a very general way, subs serve because they want to and slaves serve because they have no choice. A sub may come and go as they please but slaves stay to please. Once you find a sub that wants to become a slave you have to find a way to make it a part of their being. In order to turn a sub into a slave the dom has to find something that is precious to the sub and keep it from them as they leave so that they will be forced to come back to try and get it. But each time they return more is taken until the sub finds one day that all they consider important and necessary in their life is in the control of their dom. Once that reality hits, and they realize too that the dom is not going to relinquish control, they understand they have become a slave. And the desire to serve has now become a need and making their dom happy becomes more important than anything else.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: To be "broken" - 6/25/2007 7:07:25 AM   
persiphone


Posts: 288
Joined: 3/30/2004
Status: offline 		If you break your toys, you can't play with them anymore. My opinion is this, you don't break the person or the spirit. You alter behaviours, but not the personality. If what and who they are, is not what you need, desire, or find acceptable; then either find another or adjust.

(in reply to blksubman)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: To be "broken" - 6/25/2007 10:34:23 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I bet those into pony play talk about breaking the sub. Yes?

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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Profile   Post #: 60
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