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RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 10:43:57 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile
Hence where a slave is a reflection of the owner.  Not everybody here is into high TPE levels as well.  It's a diverse crowd in BDSM world.  But what the hell there are a lot of Doms, Subs, slaves and switches that don't have "common courtesy".. it just takes all kinds of people that make this world the interesting place that it is.

I would agree with this statement, WhiplashSmile, but have a little something to add about my "take" on it.  The statement that "a slave is a reflection of the owner" is very true, I believe.  Oddly enough though, many times when that statement is made (at least in my experience) it has been to chastise the slave (and thereby her owner) for something she said that is felt to be inappropriate or wrong.

I think it's a lovely, pleasant thought that a slave is a reflection of her/his owner.  But so many times, someone will feel that a slave has spoken out of turn or been rude or disrespectful so that statement is thrown out.  It's as if they are saying "I don't like what you said at all and because of this I also find you to be a poor example of what a slave should be because you had the gall to say it.  Since you are a reflection of your owner, I thereby find him a sorry example of what an owner should be.  He should control you better."  That's all well and good if that's someone's opinion but it's certainly making a lot of unfounded assumptions. 

First of all, I don't say things that Master finds offensive.  The posts I make here have His approval.  If you don't like the posts (and thereby the way He "controls" me, that's certainly your perogative.  Not you, Whiplash, I mean in a general sense).  But you have no idea of what His personality or opinions are.  Just because a slave is outspoken and opinionated does NOT mean that she isn't reflecting her master accurately.  Maybe HE is outspoken and opinionated and happens to totally agree with everything she types.  That would mean she is accurately reflecting His opinions.  Simply because some don't like them does not mean they aren't indicative of what her master feels as well. 

My Master is a man of few words but He has a great sense of humor, a sharp wit and a talent for summing things up well with biting sarcasm.  He has little if any tolerance for bs or someone trying to set themselves up as the judge of what is and is not acceptable for all "lifestylers."  Therefore, when I make what some would consider smart-mouth or disrespectful posts touching on those things, they DO reflect Him and very accurately.  It would indeed be a poor representation of Him if I were to come off as gullible and vulnerable, sitting by and deferring and kowtowing to anything that anyone says.  When He gave me permission to post on these forums, He did it with the expectation that I would "do Him proud" and I have thus far.  It really matters nothing to him that strangers would find me displeasing in the least.  As I said before, I give common courtesy when it is given to me but "respect" is something few people ever earn from me.  Therefore, when people happen upon posts they don't approve of and assume I'm "disrespectful" simply because of that, Master and I would both have to say that they problem lies within them and their faulty assumptions, not with my posts that accurately reflect His opinions as well.........slave luci  

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 10:46:36 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

Well now here's the thing. If I feel I'm being respectful and you feel I am not, just who is right? Our ideas as to what constitutes "respectful" may differ greatly and so, when I post what I believe is my idea/viewpoint about something, it just may violate what your idea/viewpoint is, both in content and in how it's presented.

When I post in this and other forums, I am posting my views. If they are my Master's views I state that they are. However, if they are mine, then I post them as I see fit. I am much more interested in getting what I'm trying to say into some sort of readable and understandable format than I am in whether you or anyone else has hurt feelings because of what I'm saying. That said, I don't go out of my way to say things that are intentionally hurtful, but I do say what I think.

As to being a reflection of my Master, well... my Master enjoys that I am an intelligent, thinking woman. He stands solidly by a creed of "say what you mean, mean what you say" and if I am to be a reflection of him and all he stands for, then that's what I'll do. And if that offends you or anyone else, then honestly, there is some responsibility here for you to take charge of your emotions and responses. By this I mean, you have a choice. Read for content or read with your feelings on your sleeve, because quite simply, I don't know you or anyone else that's posting and so, I'm not writing in order to attack - even if my viewpoint is in opposition to yours.

As far as deference to a dominant verses a submissive, here in these forums, I focus on ideas. I really don't care if the person voicing their idea is a dominant or a submissive. I don't care if the person is Gorean or into bondage or SM or anything else. It's about the ideas here and frankly, dominant or submissive, my ideas have just as much validity as anyone else's - even if the other person expressing his or her idea is a dominant.

If I were a dominant, hearing "Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Yes Sir" might be flattering, but in the discussion of ideas and points of view, someone simply deferring to me would be insulting to say the least. And conversely, as a submissive, what's insulting is to have my points of view discarded and/or denigrated simply because I'm a submissive.

First and foremost, I am a thinking woman who spends perhaps an inordinate amount of time contemplating this life and how I live it. As such, as I've already said, my points of view have just as much validity as anyone else who happens to call him or herself a dominant. And because of my belief in that, my posts may seem to some to not be very respectful because I do not defer when it comes to ideas. If I believe I'm wrong, I'll admit to being wrong, but if I believe I'm right, I'll stand by what I say, even if someone believes that to do so would be somehow disrespectful.

Beyond that, I'd suggest that when reading these forums, take what works for you and leave the rest.

juliet


.....Amen, juliet.  Master and I could not agree more.  This is exactly how we view it...........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:06:32 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am respectful to myself.  I don't cuss, or behave in a manner which would offend ME.  I am a submissive ONLY when in a relationship.  But once in one, my manner does not change.  I am still going to be the same, non cussing, well behaved individual I always was.  Because I am being true to being ME.
I think people tend to be who they are, in or out of Ds.  They may play the game of being something else while they search.  But ultimately, they will be who they are in the end.

With that in mind, the people you observe being what you refer to as being disrespectful, is probably just people being honest about what they feel. 

Not everyone here shares the view that anyone with a dominant/master title is what they say they are.  EVEN if they were a dominant or master type, it does not mean that they automatically should be granted the "respect" you think they do.  They should expect the same treatment anyone else might get from a stranger.  Hopefully, that is honesty.

If a person is truly in control of their space so as to be a master or dominant, then surely they would be able to take someone having a different point of view.

Stating ones views does not make a person disrespectful, even if that view isn't what someone else shares. 

It just makes them honest. 

I don't need to show my respect to my "master or dominant" by being decent and honest.  I would hope that my own view of myself would keep me being who I am.  Non cussing, well behaved, honest, and not afraid to have my own view point which I have no fear stating, even though some dominant/master type might take offense to my words..

A person who cannot accept that, probably wouldn't be someone I would have submitted to anyway. 

Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare
 i suppose one of the things i'm most frustrated with is the way that submissives often address Dominants when they disaprove of something that has been said. As if Them expressing Their opinion is somehow a personal attack on their own lifestyle.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot
Not being snarky, just curious: Why have you limited "common courtesy" to submissives ?
 

 Perhaps its my Gorean background but, i was always trained that a slave is to be respectful to all Dominants, not necessarily to submit to Them for obvious reasons but, always to be respectful.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:06:43 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive

Just to show how we all have very different ideas of what is "disrespectful," I would state here that I personally find this statement a little bit so.  "Breed" of submissive?  Isn't that assuming just a little strongly that submissives fall into one big category and anyone who is of this "new breed" is just stepping outside those bounds?  Maybe not, but that's how I take it.  So, since I take it that way and may find it offensive, does that mean it is?  Probably not.  It's all in our own personal views.
quote:

The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing. I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,

I certainly don't feel ANY behavior is acceptable - just what my Master approves of.  Perhaps alot of subs/slaves "rant and scream" (read: express their disagreement) about how they will act because they care more about obeying their dom/master than pleasing a stranger with their own preconceived notions of what a "proper" sub/slave is.  I personally find it the height of arrogance for a self-identified domly-type individual to assume what behavior I should exhibit when they are total strangers to me, my Master, and our particular relationship.  Blanket concepts don't apply here because nothing but my Master's desires mean anything to me, frankly.

Let me pose a question in the form of a scenario:  I am the owned property/slave of my Master.  He has made me well aware what is acceptable with Him insofar as how I respond on these boards.  He expects me to express myself articulately and stand behind the opinions we share.  He does not consider this disrespectful or rude.  So, I post on the forums and a stranger happens along who finds my replies the height of disrespect and rudeness and finds me a member of a "new breed" of rude, clueless subs who just don't measure up and aren't what "real" subs/slaves should be.  Now my dilemma is this:  do I remain true to myself and what my Master desires OR do I give a rat's ass about this stranger's judgmental attitude that deems me as other than a "good, real" sub/slave and thus change myself to suit him/her?  I think you know what my answer is and, to me and the only One who matters to me, THAT is the essence of being a "real, true" sub/slave, not the fact that I'm willing to change who/what I am on a whim to suit a stranger who thinks I'm not acting submissively enough toward him/her.  It may be "amusing" and it may be "boring" but that's how it be...........slave luci    






_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LadyIce)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:09:48 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive

Just to show how we all have very different ideas of what is "disrespectful," I would state here that I personally find this statement a little bit so.  "Breed" of submissive?  Isn't that assuming just a little strongly that submissives fall into one big category and anyone who is of this "new breed" is just stepping outside those bounds?  Maybe not, but that's how I take it.  So, since I take it that way and may find it offensive, does that mean it is?  Probably not.  It's all in our own personal views.



Yeah! 'New breed of submissive' indeed. How about genetically modified submissive? Jeeeessshh.

_____________________________



(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:17:42 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yeah! 'New breed of submissive' indeed. How about genetically modified submissive? Jeeeessshh.

So, if I get to choose how they modify me here's what I want:  Tiny feet, huge yet still perky breasts, porcelain skin, long straight voluminous hair, and the ability to serve 'round the clock without needing any sleep.  Coming from a slave with big ole feet, big but not perky breasts, less than perfect skin, short natually curly hair, and the need for a good night's sleep, this sounds like some dream modifications.  Hope we get the ability in my lifetime....lol.......luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:31:25 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Irk.

Yup it used to really bother me, I am not a person used to snide remarks and casual rudeness. It still bugs me to a degree but it is not something I can change in others, I can only change how I react to it.


I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive.
The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing.
I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,
it is their normal everyday chant and rant on here.
It actually becomes boring after a while.


Sure I know the word is 'irk' but what I am unsure of... was I insulted here? Am I one of the new breed?
If I'm going to be chanting then I want a special costume for it

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to LadyIce)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:40:23 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		 [/quote]

i have a tendency to refrain from issuing comments on Dominant's behavior... i realize that it's silly but, i don't beleive its my place to comment on Their actions. Perhaps its my Gorean background but, i was always trained that a slave is to be respectful to all Dominants, not necessarily to submit to Them for obvious reasons but, always to be respectful.
[/quote]

i am sure i screwed up the quote thing......all these newfangled gadgets i am trying to learn....but i digress....

i can kind of understand your point in that paragraph, if you were at a gathering in person of fellow goreans.  i dont understand how you can call something you feel that deeply "silly", but that is for you to think about, not for me to judge.

i find it quite silly to think that i would have to show respect to any tom dick or harry who made a master name and started every post with tal something.  i could make up a name and call my self a master on line.......and you would show me respect because of that alone?  sadly, i think many who have made a domly name share your perspective there.  i aint buying it tho.

i give courtesy to all-online and off, respect is earned.

you also use caps very respectfully, i do not.  does that make you better or more of a submissive/slave than me? not in my mind, perhaps in yours.

you see things from your eyes, i see them from mine....neither of us is at fault-it is the nature of the beast.  if someone is an asshole-whether they proclaim to be dom or sub or slave or purple people eater or the easter bunny, i owe them nothing.

this in no way reflects on how good a submissive i am, at least in my world it doesnt. and my world is the place i have to live every day.

edited cuz i cant type for chyt

< Message edited by SeeksOnlyOne -- 6/22/2007 12:13:52 PM >

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 11:56:43 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.


Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*


I agree with this idea that the manner with which a person conducts themselves online is indicative of their character.  There are so many people who are, or seem to be, very nice and well mannered people in life, who are not as they seem to be and only let their true nature show in what they feel to be an anonymous or shielded existence.   They let loose the leash on their prejudiced thoughts and let racial, religious, misogynist, or misandrist slurs fly from their fingertips when hiding safely behind their monitors.  All of the hate and fear that they bottle up daily is free to wander about on their keyboards and appear on the monitors of all who enter the chatrooms or message boards on which they post, revealing their character without revealing their face.

This is not limited, as LA stated, to our lifestyle, and neither is our lifestyle free of it, and a sub or slave shouldn't somehow be above the rest of humanity.


Nods to the Lady....well said...


_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 12:53:34 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Wonderful post! I totally agree, you have some submissive's here that literally scare me.
I see absolutely nothing submissive about some of them {mainly males}, but then many
people are only submissive with the right person or in the bedroom! hahaha
It does indeed take all kinds, and you will see that here!
**Let me add, you may have a submissive heart, is it who and what you are**
Many here only have that capability when it suits them or is required of them.
It could be who you really are, many here are situationally submissive at best.
Peace

Hello MzMia.  Only 12 more days now to Independence Day that you are so anticipating!  You and I usually find ourselves agreeing here on the forums but this post is one that I feel the need to offer a differing viewpoint on.  I hope no disrespect or offense is taken because certainly none is intended.  Here goes..............

Overall on the boards, it is accepted that we are to be of the attitude that everyone's "kink" is fine and not to be belittled if they enjoy it.  Also, even though debates crop up fairly often about the difference between subs and slaves and whether or not one group is "better" or "deeper into" this, it is also generally accepted by most that one group is not inherently better than the other and all are accepted for what they are.  Lately, I've noticed a mini-trend of posts against what you have referred to above as those who are "situationally submissive."  This term, I suppose, would apply to the examples you gave:  only submissive with the "right person," only submissive in the "bedroom," or when it "suits" them or is "required" of them.  Whenever subs/slaves are seen as fitting this description, they seem to be described as basically fake - not "real" submissives but someone who just "puts on an act" whenever they get ready to and feel like it and are in the right situation with the right person.

Being situationally submissive is okay, really whatever works for the individual is okay.

First of all, IF that were the case, I don't see the problem.  If that's what works for them - to be "bedroom submissives" - then that is THEIR kink and just as valid as any other around here.  However, though there are some folks like that, I tend to believe that most aren't.  I tend to feel that there are many subs/slaves whose submissiveness gets questioned simply because they are publically assertive.  I certainly fit this description.  I have always been an outspoken, opinionated, assertive person.  That did not end when I met Master nor does He have any desire for it to end.  I show common courtesy when it is extended to me but I don't have any desire to defer to others just because I am His slave and am submissive to Him. 

As funny or worthy of scorn as it may seem for a sub/slave to be "situationally submissive", that is exactly what my Master wants and expects.  He has zero desire for a slave who is always submissive to all people.  That works for some and that is totally acceptable for them.  He chose me as His slave because He liked who I was.  He liked that I am strong, intelligent, capable, independent, opinionated, and articulate.  He loves that I didn't just live my life submissive to anyone who happened to be in the area and that I didn't and don't defer to anyone simply because they think or say I should.  He saw me for who I was and chose me as His slave and doesn't expect that I will change all that I am or fake being someone else just to appear to be submissive enough to outsiders looking in.

As far as a "submissive heart," that's open to interpretation by anyone who reads it and I'm sure we'd all have varying definitions of just what it means.  If having it means that I'm supposed to defer to anyone who doesn't also identify as a sub/slave, then I don't.  But, if having a "submissive heart" means that I live to please my Master and that my heart is full of the need to serve Him, then I most certainly do.  I am submissive to Him always (not just in the "bedroom") and not because it is "required" of me or when it "suits" me. 

I do think I see the point you are making.  I have also seen people who identify as submissive yet seem so overbearing and bossy that, by just a quick glance, it would seem that they would probably make better dominants.  To me, that is an entirely different example than subs/slaves like myself who really ARE "situationally submissive" in the sense that we submit only to the one who we have agreed to submit to or the one who owns us.  To me, there's a huge difference between the two examples.  Also, Master said that if being "situationally submissive" is a bad thing, then wouldn't being "situationally dominant" also be?  Why is it that so many people expect a sub/slave to defer to anyone anytime to be considered "submissive" enough but yet no one expects doms/masters to go around cracking the whip on everyone all the time?  I think that's an excellent point.  Just as I don't defer or submit to strangers, neither does He expect strangers to defer or submit TO Him.  It works both ways and, for us, makes just as little sense.  Anyway, just thought I'd offer a different perspective.  Hope it made sense............slave luci


**You hit the nail on the head, many of the submissives online are overbearing, demanding, critical and bossy!
I need to stop looking at what they identify themselves as, and treat all the same on the boards.**
slaveluci, it is okay to agree to disagree, you disagree in a positive and sweet way.
That is what makes the difference, and I still like the way you operate.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 12:56:22 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.


Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*


I agree with this idea that the manner with which a person conducts themselves online is indicative of their character.  There are so many people who are, or seem to be, very nice and well mannered people in life, who are not as they seem to be and only let their true nature show in what they feel to be an anonymous or shielded existence.   They let loose the leash on their prejudiced thoughts and let racial, religious, misogynist, or misandrist slurs fly from their fingertips when hiding safely behind their monitors.  All of the hate and fear that they bottle up daily is free to wander about on their keyboards and appear on the monitors of all who enter the chatrooms or message boards on which they post, revealing their character without revealing their face.

This is not limited, as LA stated, to our lifestyle, and neither is our lifestyle free of it, and a sub or slave shouldn't somehow be above the rest of humanity.



Ooh baby I love your way, everyday!
Thank you for stating how many of us feel, in such an eloquent manner.
Bingo

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:07:15 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
**You hit the nail on the head, many of the submissives online are overbearing, demanding, critical and bossy!
I need to stop looking at what they identify themselves as, and treat all the same on the boards.**
slaveluci, it is okay to agree to disagree, you disagree in a positive and sweet way.
That is what makes the difference, and I still like the way you operate.

Why, thank you, ma'am.  That's nice of you to say.  I don't always disagree in a "positive and sweet way," though, I will be the first to admit.  I try to be open-minded and accepting and kind overall but there are sometimes I simply fail.  When I first started posting, I had more of a problem staying calm and polite than I do now.  Over time, you get to kind of know people's personalities and see their posts in light of that limited "knowledge" you've picked up.  And also, over time, I think I have stopped needing to "defend" my beliefs as much or as often. 

Granted, on this thread today, I've been pretty verbose but it's simply because I feel strongly about the topic.  The times that I get the least "positive and sweet" are the times when I feel people are being judged in sweeping generalizations, when the choices I've made/relationship I have are being questioned as less valid, when "one true wayism's" begin, or when someone here is clearly dishonest and misrepresents themselves/their knowledge.  Those still strike quite a chord and if and when I fail to be less than nice, those will be the times.  But then we all have our buttons so I guess I'm not that out of the ordinary.  Thanks for the kind words, MzMia, and just think......only 12 more days and counting down to the 4th!...............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:08:25 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i have a tendency to refrain from issuing comments on Dominant's behavior... i realize that it's silly but, i don't beleive its my place to comment on Their actions. Perhaps its my Gorean background but, i was always trained that a slave is to be respectful to all Dominants, not necessarily to submit to Them for obvious reasons but, always to be respectful.


This is the crux of the matter right here. Goreans have specific expectations and protocals for their slaves, this doesn't carry over, necessarily, to non gorean groups D/s, subs, non gorean slaves.

From what i understand of gor slaves are to be submissive and deferrential to ALL the free and may not criticize or question them.  They are to be pleasing at all times. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:28:06 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Great points luci.
I also found that statement to be dismissive of anyone not practicing this in a (their) particular way. 

I think anyone professing to be either this or that, should be able to handle the way another posts online as if they were people and not just a refection of a title that holds little meaning beyond the boards, or their own relationship.

I could create a dominant name, but that would not make me a dominant.  Or, I could call myself a kangaroo, I do have a few pouches around here.  On these boards, we are all just people. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive


Just to show how we all have very different ideas of what is "disrespectful," I would state here that I personally find this statement a little bit so.  "Breed" of submissive?  Isn't that assuming just a little strongly that submissives fall into one big category and anyone who is of this "new breed" is just stepping outside those bounds? 

quote:

The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing. I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,


THAT is the essence of being a "real, true" sub/slave, not the fact that I'm willing to change who/what I am on a whim to suit a stranger who thinks I'm not acting submissively enough toward him/her.  It may be "amusing" and it may be "boring" but that's how it be...........slave luci    







_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:31:12 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears


This is the crux of the matter right here. Goreans have specific expectations and protocals for their slaves, this doesn't carry over, necessarily, to non gorean groups D/s, subs, non gorean slaves.

From what i understand of gor slaves are to be submissive and deferrential to ALL the free and may not criticize or question them.  They are to be pleasing at all times. 


You know what I find amazing? I have a number of friends who identify as Gorean. Unlike what's been presented here as "Gorean," my views and words are respected - because my actions meet and match my words. I live what I believe and I don't pretend what I don't. 

From what I can gather from the OP, that just "shouldn't be" the case - even though it is.

IN fact, while I don't identify as Gorean, my friends who do have no problems with the fact that I have an opinion and can voice it if I choose. In fact, one of the dominants (Masters) and I always have discussions that frequently end up rather heated. Both of us find the exchange fun and enlightening - even if neither of us can convince the other of the rightness of either of our positions. Superfluous and insincere pseudo-deference is not tolerated by anyone I know personally who happen to be Gorean. 

Words are very rarely full indications of genuine respect, and like the third daughter in King Leer who upon being asked if she loved her father said she couldn't answer that because words were not enough, I don't feel respect is something I have to proclaim and protest in order to have. Nor do I feel respect means that my mind has ceased to function.

juliet

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:40:42 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Great points luci.
I also found that statement to be dismissive of anyone not practicing this in a (their) particular way. 
I think anyone professing to be either this or that, should be able to handle the way another posts online as if they were people and not just a refection of a title that holds little meaning beyond the boards, or their own relationship.
I could create a dominant name, but that would not make me a dominant.  Or, I could call myself a kangaroo, I do have a few pouches around here.  On these boards, we are all just people. 
Kyst

Thanks Kyst.  I tried (and perhaps failed) to make the point earlier that being the best slave that I can be to my Master is going to inevitably mean that, in some others' eyes, I'm not what they think a slave "should" be.  The one example I've used is that He is very adamant that I submit to Him only.  To another dominant who believes that all subs/slaves are to always "act" submissive to any "dom," they would see my very obedience to His instructions as being a violation of their desires.  That is inevitable. 

This is why I have never been able to grasp the concept of having to be pleasing/submissive to everyone who identifies as dom or "free" (in the gorean realm).  It is rare to find more than a couple people who can totally agree on anything on these boards.  How in the world am I going to know how to act in order to please them all?  "Do this, no do that, do it this way, no my way is better"..............that would be setting me up for failure, for sure.  So I can proudly say that I am the property of an Owner who desires that I do all that I'm capable of to insure His pleasure, satisfaction, and contentment.  If, in doing that, I happen to measure up to others' standards, that's great.  If not, to hell with it as long as He is proud of the slave He owns....slave luci

Edited to add:  When I stated above that I can't relate to the concept of being pleasing/submissive to everyone who is dom or "free," that was by no means intended to be dismissive of anyone who can and does relate to and/or live that way.  I re-read this and did not want to imply that I was slamming anyone who does choose that for themselves/their relationship.  I'm simply saying that it is impossible for me to function within that dynamic, ok?  Peace........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 6/22/2007 1:47:48 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:51:25 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears


This is the crux of the matter right here. Goreans have specific expectations and protocals for their slaves, this doesn't carry over, necessarily, to non gorean groups D/s, subs, non gorean slaves.

From what i understand of gor slaves are to be submissive and deferrential to ALL the free and may not criticize or question them.  They are to be pleasing at all times. 


You know what I find amazing? I have a number of friends who identify as Gorean. Unlike what's been presented here as "Gorean," my views and words are respected - because my actions meet and match my words. I live what I believe and I don't pretend what I don't. 

From what I can gather from the OP, that just "shouldn't be" the case - even though it is.

IN fact, while I don't identify as Gorean, my friends who do have no problems with the fact that I have an opinion and can voice it if I choose. In fact, one of the dominants (Masters) and I always have discussions that frequently end up rather heated. Both of us find the exchange fun and enlightening - even if neither of us can convince the other of the rightness of either of our positions. Superfluous and insincere pseudo-deference is not tolerated by anyone I know personally who happen to be Gorean. 

Words are very rarely full indications of genuine respect, and like the third daughter in King Leer who upon being asked if she loved her father said she couldn't answer that because words were not enough, I don't feel respect is something I have to proclaim and protest in order to have. Nor do I feel respect means that my mind has ceased to function.

juliet



i was offering that the op's persepctive was from her "gorean training".  i don't adhere to such standards myself.  i speak my mind as i see fit, give respect when appropriate, am curteous when appropriate.  We do tend to see everything around us based on the color glasses we wear - i was merely pointing out hers are "gorean tainted", maybe when she's not around goreans she needs to take them off

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 1:53:55 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		*smile* I understood that velvet. Your post just made me think of something and I just built off that.

juliet

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 2:49:18 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i've already prepared myself for some nasty posts in reply to this thread but, after having spent several days reading through these forums and responding to a few, something that has always urked me has worked its way to the surface and i just needed to say something.

i wonder where in the subby training manual that evidently i never received it says that once a submissive is collared, she has the right to say anything she pleases without regard or respect for O/others. Maybe i'm a strange one... but, isn't it possible to voice a difference in opinion without verbally abusing people and making yourself look like a complete brat? i realize that once a sub/slave is owned, technically the only One she has to please is her Dom/Master but, what happened to common courtesy and respect? Am i the only one that feels this way? Is it completely out of character?


Hello annare. First, there is no "training manual" that can help compensate one's lack of education. Second, "most" of the verbal ("written" in this case) abuse is made by people (not only "subs") who have been (are being?) abused this way themselves. These people are suffering...

I find a respectful person to be a strong person. The strong should help the "weak", having "respect" for the human condition in a universal sister-brotherhood that "includes" everyone.

I will not throw stones at the bratty, the ominiscient pedantic, the narcissic, the egoistical, the pseudo intellectual or any self centered immature person "suffering" from lack of respect for others (even if they sometimes do write "purdy" flippant "prose" for shock value). I will give the most honest opinion that I can (difficult, but "doable") and try not to escalate the nasties. I said "try".

A lot of people here like to talk about "discipline". Some "do", and some do "not do" (especially when anonymous). They prefer to conserve "energy", and expess this to a selected few (or one?). Small battery, I guess.

For my part, I watch the "strong ones" that help the "disrespectful", by being a positive example in their replies. For all it's worth, I watch for people like annare. Please do not be discouraged by what I find to be the minority.

There are lots of nice "strong" helpful people here. Let's not bash the "bashers", that is not very elegant nor helpful. RL.


(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/22/2007 4:35:40 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farieanne

Hi,
i try to be respectful to everyone rather D/type or /s type. my Master feels, and i happen to agree with Him, that a sub/slave is a reflection of his/her Owner/Dom. i think if i was disrespectful i would be punished. No offence meant but it would probably be more sever if it were to a Dom. It's not that they are better than a sub/slave but it's like showing respect to an elder. Or is that taught any more? Just my opinion.


Hello farianne. In my opinion, it would be the same for disrespecting a submissive, as the fault (mistake) is exactly the same. I could make a case that it is "worst" disrespecting a submissive than a dom... RL.

(in reply to farieanne)
Profile   Post #: 80
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