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RE: Respect in D/s - 6/23/2007 11:00:52 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		There is a big difference between respect and being respectful.  i don't need to respect someone, or to even know them, in order to treat them respectfully. 
 
For instance, i never had much respect for my maternal grandfather, mainly because of the way he treated my father and my father's children, especially my brother.  But, when he visited us and then came to live with us, in his later years, i always treated him respectfully.  The same with teachers i had in school.  There were some teachers i had very little to no respect for but, i always treated them in a respectful manner.  i treat strangers respectfully and i have no idea whether i would respect them or not, if i knew them. 
 
i consider treating others respectfully to be an indication of how i feel about myself, rather than how i feel about the other person.  In other words, i won't lower my own personal standards of how i treat people just because i am dealing with someone i don't like or respect.  To treat someone  rudely, whether i might think that they deserve it or not, only makes me a rude person and that's not something i want to be.  i can respectfully disagree with someone, without being rude to them.  And, that's the same with everyone i deal with, whether i know them or not, whether they are online, or on the phone, or in person, and whether they are a Dominant, a submissive, a switch, or anything else.  That's just how i am and have always been.
 
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 12:16:19 AM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		"Man to man is so unjust, children
You don't know who to trust
Your worst enemy could be your best friend
And your best friend your worst enemy

Some will eat and drink with you
Then behind them su-su 'pon you
Only your friend know your secrets
So only he could reveal it
And who the cap fit, let them wear it..."
Bob Marley Who the cap fit

Respect, like warmth, kindness, understanding, and compassion comes from within. You cannot show or offer to other people what you don't have inside you.

Another thing is.... this is an international BDSM website and forum, and while the concepts of dominant and submissive and slave and flogger are universal BDSM is also culture specific. The American BDSM community isn't quite the same as the UK BDSM community, or the German BDSM community, for example. Just a minor consideration.

However it IS an English language forum. And whenever you open your mouth and speak you betray your origins, your character (or lack of it), your manners (or lack of them), your education (or lack of it), your level of intelligence, also your mood, emotions and feelings.

And so it is when you write, all these things come through in what you write.

People aren't stupid.

Out in society you can wear the most expensive clothing, the latest designer fashions, but if you fart and speak like a redneck everyone is going to perceive you as a redneck.

Same too here. Doesn't matter whether you're submissive or dominant, male or female, fat or thin, young or old. Doesn't matter how experienced you are, what you know, or even who you say you are or claim to be. It doesn't even matter if you got a photo by your profile.

It doesn't matter either whether it's here on these threads or over the other side browsing profiles - you are going to be judged not by who you are and claim to be, but by the way you come across, project yourself and communicate with others.

Now this is hardly rocket science, or is it?

And yet (please don't ask me for an explanation here, I'm just as clueless as everyone else) it never fails to surprise me the amount of people who are either oblivious to this simple fact or choose to overlook it.

Okay, we can have off days, moods, we can get it wrong, mistime things, get the wrong end of the stick, we can disagree, we can debate and we can discuss.

But it still doesn't change the fact that how you come across and communicate with others is how you are judged and perceived by other people.

And the thing is is that you and only you are in full control of what you say and what you write here. It doesn't matter whether you are a slave or a dominant, submissive or switch, you are ultimately responsible for every single word you write and every single thought and opinion expressed. And if you are unhappy with the way people perceive you or respond to what you write the only person who is able to change their perception or opinion of you is you yourself.

After all.....

"A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.."
Anon.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 12:51:12 AM   
annare


Posts: 37
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68
Unfortunately, and I've seen this time and time again, when people don't agree with an OP or when they don't express themselves according to the OP's standards they are viewed as being rude and disrespectful by the OP.  The most ironic thing is, when someone starts a thread complaining how rude and mean people can be, they inevitably bury themselves in their own rudeness and disrespect. 


just for clarification's sake... This is the first thread i have started... and i made the observation reagrding O/others responses elsewhere. i apologize if voicing my opinion seemed rude and disrespectful in some way to you.

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 1:07:20 AM   
annare


Posts: 37
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
You know what I find amazing? I have a number of friends who identify as Gorean. Unlike what's been presented here as "Gorean," my views and words are respected - because my actions meet and match my words. I live what I believe and I don't pretend what I don't. 

From what I can gather from the OP, that just "shouldn't be" the case - even though it is.

IN fact, while I don't identify as Gorean, my friends who do have no problems with the fact that I have an opinion and can voice it if I choose. In fact, one of the dominants (Masters) and I always have discussions that frequently end up rather heated. Both of us find the exchange fun and enlightening - even if neither of us can convince the other of the rightness of either of our positions. Superfluous and insincere pseudo-deference is not tolerated by anyone I know personally who happen to be Gorean. 

Words are very rarely full indications of genuine respect, and like the third daughter in King Leer who upon being asked if she loved her father said she couldn't answer that because words were not enough, I don't feel respect is something I have to proclaim and protest in order to have. Nor do I feel respect means that my mind has ceased to function.

juliet


i think somewhere in all of this some of what i originally stated has been lost. i never said i had a problem with submissives voicing a difference in opinion in fact i think its necessary in a lifestyle this diverse. What i did say however, which a vast majority of posters claiming to disagree with me are also saying, is that when a difference of opinion is voiced it would be nice if it were done courteously.

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 1:16:26 AM   
annare


Posts: 37
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra
For my part, I watch the "strong ones" that help the "disrespectful", by being a positive example in their replies. For all it's worth, I watch for people like annare. Please do not be discouraged by what I find to be the minority.


i read this several times and was unable to tell if You watched for people like me because i'm trouble or helpful... *giggles* i would never assume but, i would like to address both...

i also believe that ideally the lifestyle should be a family, that submissives should build one another up instead of tearing each other down... that we would lead by example... i suppose that's why i started this thread in the first place... in doing so i suppose it may have come across like i was "bashing" other people which was not my intent... my intention was partially to see if i was the only one seeing these behaviors as i realize sometimes W/we interpret things based on O/our own "world views".

if You are indeed saying that i am a positive example i am more than humbled... i can't pretend that i am more than i am... i am inexperienced at best, a complete amature at worst... i only have a sincere desire to explore this lifestyle in the way that suits me best... and hopefully make a few F/friends along the way.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 1:21:13 AM   
annare


Posts: 37
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
There is a big difference between respect and being respectful.  i don't need to respect someone, or to even know them, in order to treat them respectfully. 
 
For instance, i never had much respect for my maternal grandfather, mainly because of the way he treated my father and my father's children, especially my brother.  But, when he visited us and then came to live with us, in his later years, i always treated him respectfully.  The same with teachers i had in school.  There were some teachers i had very little to no respect for but, i always treated them in a respectful manner.  i treat strangers respectfully and i have no idea whether i would respect them or not, if i knew them. 
 
i consider treating others respectfully to be an indication of how i feel about myself, rather than how i feel about the other person.  In other words, i won't lower my own personal standards of how i treat people just because i am dealing with someone i don't like or respect.  To treat someone  rudely, whether i might think that they deserve it or not, only makes me a rude person and that's not something i want to be.  i can respectfully disagree with someone, without being rude to them.  And, that's the same with everyone i deal with, whether i know them or not, whether they are online, or on the phone, or in person, and whether they are a Dominant, a submissive, a switch, or anything else.  That's just how i am and have always been.


Amen, sister... beautifully written... i suppose it's liken to the way M/most would treat the elderly. i will very rarely address an older person by anything other than Sir or Ma'am unless i have been given express permission to do otherwise. Not because i am submitting to them but because it is a title of respect that i believe should be given until it is proven that it is undeserved. i don't think something as simple as calling a Dominant Sir means that i am submitting to Him... it is simply a respectful way of addressing One of a Dominant stature.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 2:22:15 AM   
MasterJay00


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/15/2007
Status: offline 		Keep your friends closer

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 5:27:28 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

"A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.."
Anon.


stella i always love to read your posts, they are thoughtful and inspire me to think, thank you for that .  i agree with your above post about respect, but the above quote i don't quite believe is true and i think how words are used is the reason for so much miscommunication when posting on threads.  When i use a word i have a specific meaning behind that word which may not be the same meaning other people reading have.  Generally you can find almost every word in a dictionary, but we don't always use a word in the context of  its dictionary definition, it is sometimes tainted by our emotions or experiences in life.  This can lead to a lot of confision over what was said and how things are interpreted. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 7:08:22 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

There is a big difference between respect and being respectful.  i don't need to respect someone, or to even know them, in order to treat them respectfully.  
 


I love this sentence, slavegirljoy.  For me, I am respectful to people for myself.  I want to live in a world where people are respectful of others, kind, etc.

I dont really think it is a D/s thing, I think it is a human thing.

In my experience, what seems to often happen is people reverse engineer an excuse for their bad manners and disrespectful nature from their being patrol leader, Dominant, teacher's pet, whatever.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 7:33:20 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		It serves a purpose in the long run if you can get along with others in a civil manner. Now some can adeptly outrageously attack posters and get away with it because most understand they are making a purposeful, exaggerated response that can be somewhat humorous.

I am careful with such tactics and if I do anything like that I want the other to be fully aware, I am not personally attacking. Lots of dumb stuff is said here by posters with all levels of intellect, but it is not my job to tell them. Know something else? I genuinely like all types of people and can appreciate “different” views now and then.

On that rare occasion, I have been confronted with an outright name calling attack, I will minimally quote their words and say “back at ya.” That puts the burden on them to defend their words and get the debate back on track and not on a personal level. Plus, it calls attention to their lack of civility.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 8:21:14 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		i enjoyed reading your post on this topic, however i am curious as to what you meant by stating "if you fart and speak like a redneck everyone is going to perceive you as a redneck".  i'm wondering why you chose to link a redneck with farting.  Are you saying that rednecks are the only people who fart or that all rednecks fart?  Are you using "redneck" as the slang term for people from the southern United States or with some other meaning? 
 
As you said, there are people using this site from lots of countries and i'm not sure how "redneck" is used elsewhere but, in the U.S., "redneck" can be used (and taken as) either a derogatory term or a term of endearment.  There are plenty of people from the South that use these boards and may consider themselves to be a redneck but, not a crude, rude, or socially inept slob and might consider being linked with farting as an insult to them.   The rednecks, i have known, are proud to be known as a redneck and they carry themselves in a well-mannered and respectful way. 
 
i'm just wondering where you were coming from with that statement, as it didn't seem to me to fit with the rest of your post and i'm trying to understand what you meant by it.  As you said, "A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.." 
 
i am not a redneck, btw.  my family were "Okies" who moved to California, but, i have spent many years living in the southern United States, and i have known a lot of rednecks over the years and none of them have ever farted in my presence, at least not without saying "Excuse me", and i have never heard any of them speak in a way that was anything less than polite and respectful, even though they do love to poke fun at themselves.  They have all been just down-to-earth, fun, hardworking, sincere, and polite gentlemen and gentlewomen, who love fishing for bass and other fish, hunting deer and other game, watching NASCAR races, relaxing on the front porch or hanging out in the garage, working on their trucks and/or old cars, listening to country music, and some of them enjoy chewing tobacco and most of them enjoy drinking cold, canned American beer after working all day, usually outdoors, where their necks get red from the sun beating down on them and they would drop everything in a heartbeat to be there to help a friend or a neighbor with anything.  In other words, they have all been very good people who would not treat others in a rude or disrespectful way.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche 

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
Out in society you can wear the most expensive clothing, the latest designer fashions, but if you fart and speak like a redneck everyone is going to perceive you as a redneck.

After all.....

"A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.."
Anon.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 8:55:09 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		i agree with you, Sinergy, that treating people respectfully is a human thing, not limited to D/s or any other specific group, and, like you said, i also want to live in a world where people are respectful of others, even when they disagree.   i know that you and i have disagreed on a number of topics but, i have always felt that you were respectful in your responses to me and i hope that you have felt the same about my responses to you.
 
This is exactly why i don't need to respect my elected officials, in order to treat them in a respectful manner.  i can disagree and dislike the person but still speak to them and about them in way that shows respect for the office they hold and not stoop to name calling and insults to make my point. 
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

There is a big difference between respect and being respectful.  i don't need to respect someone, or to even know them, in order to treat them respectfully.  
 


I love this sentence, slavegirljoy.  For me, I am respectful to people for myself.  I want to live in a world where people are respectful of others, kind, etc.

I dont really think it is a D/s thing, I think it is a human thing.

In my experience, what seems to often happen is people reverse engineer an excuse for their bad manners and disrespectful nature from their being patrol leader, Dominant, teacher's pet, whatever.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 10:20:49 AM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		Perhaps the intended personality trait we should be discussing is not "respect", but "courtesy".

Some definitions of "respect":

esteem: the condition of being honored (esteemed or respected or well regarded); "it is held in esteem"; "a man who has earned high regard"
an attitude of admiration or esteem; "she lost all respect for him"
regard: a feeling of friendship and esteem;"he inspires respect"
regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We prize his creativity"

There are a lot of persons that do not deserve "respect" in the above context; however, I try to be courteous to all. Respect has to be earned, courtesy should be extended by all, to all, regardless of title. And yes, very often courtesy is severely lacking both here and in RL. There are many on CM that I hold in high regard, based on the attitudes and competance they show in the forums.

*** edited to say this post is intended to the subject, and not to any one person***


< Message edited by mrbob726 -- 6/24/2007 10:21:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 11:33:32 AM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

i enjoyed reading your post on this topic, however i am curious as to what you meant by stating "if you fart and speak like a redneck everyone is going to perceive you as a redneck". i'm wondering why you chose to link a redneck with farting. Are you saying that rednecks are the only people who fart or that all rednecks fart? Are you using "redneck" as the slang term for people from the southern United States or with some other meaning?

As you said, there are people using this site from lots of countries and i'm not sure how "redneck" is used elsewhere but, in the U.S., "redneck" can be used (and taken as) either a derogatory term or a term of endearment. There are plenty of people from the South that use these boards and may consider themselves to be a redneck but, not a crude, rude, or socially inept slob and might consider being linked with farting as an insult to them. The rednecks, i have known, are proud to be known as a redneck and they carry themselves in a well-mannered and respectful way.

i'm just wondering where you were coming from with that statement, as it didn't seem to me to fit with the rest of your post and i'm trying to understand what you meant by it. As you said, "A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.."

i am not a redneck, btw. my family were "Okies" who moved to California, but, i have spent many years living in the southern United States, and i have known a lot of rednecks over the years and none of them have ever farted in my presence, at least not without saying "Excuse me", and i have never heard any of them speak in a way that was anything less than polite and respectful, even though they do love to poke fun at themselves. They have all been just down-to-earth, fun, hardworking, sincere, and polite gentlemen and gentlewomen, who love fishing for bass and other fish, hunting deer and other game, watching NASCAR races, relaxing on the front porch or hanging out in the garage, working on their trucks and/or old cars, listening to country music, and some of them enjoy chewing tobacco and most of them enjoy drinking cold, canned American beer after working all day, usually outdoors, where their necks get red from the sun beating down on them and they would drop everything in a heartbeat to be there to help a friend or a neighbor with anything. In other words, they have all been very good people who would not treat others in a rude or disrespectful way.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
Out in society you can wear the most expensive clothing, the latest designer fashions, but if you fart and speak like a redneck everyone is going to perceive you as a redneck.

After all.....

"A word gets its meaning by the person who speaks it.."
Anon.



Okay...

First, if there are any rednecks out there who I may have offended by my previous posting then please accept my sincerest apologies. I wasn't meaning to offend.

No, I wasn't meaning to be derogatory at all - I for one don't have an issue with farting nor with plain talking, nor would I necessarily associate someone who does fart and talk plainly with being a slob, therefore I don't necessarily see anyone who is a genuine redneck in a negative light.

I used the term redneck because I assumed that denim dungarees, a check shirt and baseball cap would conjure up a completely different mental image to someone smartly or formally dressed, which was the point I was trying to make.

I could have used a more obvious example of a man dressed as a woman or vice versa (which I did before) so you get the Marilyn Monroe image with the Lee Marvin voice but.... I wanted a break from being transgendered (or bringing it up in postings).

I just associated the term 'redneck' with people who are straightforward honest people who are neither slobs nor dressed up to the nines, exactly as you described them.

Nor do I mistake plain talking for being rude or disrespectful.

Everybody farts, on average 14 times a day. However when we're all dressed up in our finest clothes and on our best behaviour I think most of us would deem such behaviour inappropriate.

I'm shortly coming over to the States - to the South - and wouldn't want to upset or offend anyone. I have a positive opinion of all Americans, irrespective of whether they're rednecks or not.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 11:52:18 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you for your thoughtful reply and for clearing up my confusion about your reference to rednecks.  One thing that i have noticed with most of the Southern Folk, i have come in contact with, is that they are a proud people and, while they love to poke fun at themselves, such as the "Blue Collar Comedy" bunch, they can get a little ticked-off by "outsiders" poking fun at them.  And, a lot of rednecks do carry shotguns. 
 
Seriously,  i think this just helps to illustrate how one person can say something, using certain words that might be emotional triggers to some, and that can lead to a misunderstanding of what was actually meant.
 
i wish you a safe and enjoyable voyage to the "Land of Dixie" and that you will have an positive time there.
____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 12:02:51 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Isn't it amazing how subtle and slippery, underhanded and non committal insults can be tossed around. Personally if i am in a mode to toss an insult i would much prefer to do it directly, i think it shows more integrity to take responsibility for it.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Respect in D/s - 6/24/2007 2:26:51 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra
For my part, I watch the "strong ones" that help the "disrespectful", by being a positive example in their replies. For all it's worth, I watch for people like annare. Please do not be discouraged by what I find to be the minority.


i read this several times and was unable to tell if You watched for people like me because i'm trouble or helpful... *giggles* i would never assume but, i would like to address both...

i also believe that ideally the lifestyle should be a family, that submissives should build one another up instead of tearing each other down... that we would lead by example... i suppose that's why i started this thread in the first place... in doing so i suppose it may have come across like i was "bashing" other people which was not my intent... my intention was partially to see if i was the only one seeing these behaviors as i realize sometimes W/we interpret things based on O/our own "world views".

if You are indeed saying that i am a positive example i am more than humbled... i can't pretend that i am more than i am... i am inexperienced at best, a complete amature at worst... i only have a sincere desire to explore this lifestyle in the way that suits me best... and hopefully make a few F/friends along the way.


Hello again. For the sake of clarity, I find your concerns in your post to be positive. I watch for you in the positive mode.

A positive person is not necessarly a pleasing person. I do not watch for "pleasing" posts. One example of a person I consider positive is Faramir. He posts some very "pointy" stuff, but he "is" a positive reference for me. RL.

(in reply to annare)
Profile   Post #: 97
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