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RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 12:42:11 AM   
NControlofU


Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Uh, lets not overlook the fact that its not just the "poor newbie sub" who is taken by the "unscrupulous trainer" and gets caught up in all his charms and worldly ways.  There are subs who ask doms for training or mentoring, who are actually looking for more than that, who are looking for a long term d/s relationship and then get upset when the trainer or mentor doesn't reciprocate those feelings.

Its not all one-sided.

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 1:21:19 AM   
Woes


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/15/2007
Status: offline 		i am very new both to CollarMe and to submission. i have always had very submissive tendencies, but fought then since i was always told i had to be strong, independent, etc. Only recently have i began exploring this side of myself, and opening myself to it. i now identify as more a slave than a submissive. For the following i am leaving some details out for other's privacy, and to keep this shorter than a novel, hopefully.

i now have an arrangement with someone who will be training me. However, She is not stoic and distant. Nor would that appeal to me at this time. i am freed by the knowledge and emotions and sensations of things as i learn to embrace this side of me. But the key word is learn. i have so shut myself off from it and have been conditioned to many things through my life, this is very difficult though it is something i very much desire. This leaves me rather fragile.

Though she is training me, there is a possibility of more in time. Simply because she is training me, and assisting me does not mean this will definitively end. i think if everyone is open and honest about what they expect, want and need training can be very beneficial. However i am very new and thus unjaded as of yet.

What She is doing at this time is helping me learn to shed the inhibitions i have been taught, that have been ground into me as they are seemingly my largest problem and is a large barrier. She is not focusing on teaching me her sexual likes and dislikes or anything that specialized (though if this goes on long enough, that will come, i imagine). She is teaching me to further open myself to serving, which i think is very beneficial. She is teaching me that pushing limits carefully, though persistently can be a very enlightening and freeing experience. She has even told me that my submission is a gift, and suggested it should not be given lightly.

If She were to choose to end our sessions, and time together now, even in a very abrupt fashion, i would miss Her, i would be surprised, but i would not regret the experience, and i would be grateful for what She has done for me. While i am a just "poor newbie sub"/slave who probably has no idea of what she speaks, i do feel this has been a very good experience for me, and i cannot believe it is so rare for subs/slaves to feel the same.

That is simply my two cents on the subject at hand. Thanks :)

(in reply to NControlofU)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 7:15:00 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Noah,

First off, my name is Michael, not Mike.

Secondly, I have some questions for you.

  1. Where do you meet the women you have trained?
  2. Is this training conducted in the physical presence of the other person?
  3. How large is the scene you are in?
  4. What specifically do you teach them?
  5. What percentage of people who seek training find it useful would you guess?

(in reply to Woes)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:45:02 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I liked reading this thread from start to finish- because I realized everyone is right!

Seriously- there's something I agree with in every single post made here in this thread.

The term "trainer" in the bdsm scene at large, is often abused and tarted around just like "mentor" "protector" "consideration" as a way of saying "I just want to fuck and play with you, but it makes you feel safer and raises the chances of me getting pussy to attach a nice "title" to it."

However, like mentoring, protecting, and considering, the concept of training ITSELF is an excellent one and can be used to great advantage.

I often advise people to go to therapy.  To me, therapy is training a person how to work through their own issues and lead a more fulfilling life.  Sadly, we don't get that training growing up, instead we get foisted a bunch of crap which we NEED training to get through later.

Training as well has nothing to do with orientations.  Obviously people tend to be more comfortable in the dom training sub dynamic- but when you're talking skill teaching and relationship work- orientation is fairly irrelevant.  A great dom can be a horrible trainer.  Training in itself is a skill. 

So I get why people are so against the term because that's often how I am about mentoring.  But training has a positive part in my life and I want that to continue.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:56:58 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		(Its annoying when the net crashes as you post!)
 
I just dont get people calling themselves mentors or trainers or teachers blahblahblah.  I have been trained throughout life by people who call themselves only by their names.  Calling yourself a 'trainer' - unless you have specific qualifications - is no more than a bit of an ego trip placing someone on a higher ledge than others.
 
My mother, my friends, my family - everyone is a trainer or a teacher or a mentor.
And Darcy trains me constantly.  But he doesn't have this 'need' to define himself as a trainer.
 
We all are 'trainers' - we are all 'learners' - and its when you forget that you end up drowning in the deep end.
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 9:15:05 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
Wow!  Thank you, Woes, for adding your testimony to what some of us have said about our positive experiences with working with a trainer.  i think you are very brave to be so new to this forum and to BDSM and to step forward and state (very eloquently, btw) that you are having a very positive experience with your trainer. There are, obviously, a lot of misconceptions about trainers and what training is (just as there are many misconceptions about a lot of things) and some people seem to have made an "across the board"  negative judgment about trainers, without ever having had any experience with one. As i have posted here, and just as you have said, there is a lot more to submissive training than some people seem to think.  In my case, training wasn't about "learning" to do a specific task.  For me, training was about "retraining" my thoughts so that i could overcome the old, negative messages in my head that were keeping me from letting go of my inhibitions and were holding me down (more tightly than any rope ever has).  For me, training helped me to release myself from my own mental cage that i had been trapped in.   i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning how to be a submissive", i already was a submissive.  i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning how to give blow jobs", i already was well appreciated by my Dom in sucking and swallowing (and not just cum, btw).  i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning" anything, other than about myself and how to allow my submissive, kinky self to be my submissive, kinky self, fearlessly and honestly. Training helped me to move forward in my submissiveness so that i could move closer to reaching my full potential as a submissive (which i am still working toward).  i came away with a truer sense about my submissiveness and how that submissiveness was something for me to embrace about myself, rather than struggle with trying to cope with or overcome. i am so glad that you posted here, Woes, and i wish you nothing less than a very positive and fulfilling experience with your training and beyond, (you "poor newbie sub/slave" you).  It sounds as though you are well on your way.____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David  

Edited to add:  i have included Woes complete post here because i feel it is so important to read in its entirety. 
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
-- F. Nietzsche
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Woes

i am very new both to CollarMe and to submission. i have always had very submissive tendencies, but fought then since i was always told i had to be strong, independent, etc. Only recently have i began exploring this side of myself, and opening myself to it. i now identify as more a slave than a submissive. For the following i am leaving some details out for other's privacy, and to keep this shorter than a novel, hopefully.

i now have an arrangement with someone who will be training me. However, She is not stoic and distant. Nor would that appeal to me at this time. i am freed by the knowledge and emotions and sensations of things as i learn to embrace this side of me. But the key word is learn. i have so shut myself off from it and have been conditioned to many things through my life, this is very difficult though it is something i very much desire. This leaves me rather fragile.

Though she is training me, there is a possibility of more in time. Simply because she is training me, and assisting me does not mean this will definitively end. i think if everyone is open and honest about what they expect, want and need training can be very beneficial. However i am very new and thus unjaded as of yet.

What She is doing at this time is helping me learn to shed the inhibitions i have been taught, that have been ground into me as they are seemingly my largest problem and is a large barrier. She is not focusing on teaching me her sexual likes and dislikes or anything that specialized (though if this goes on long enough, that will come, i imagine). She is teaching me to further open myself to serving, which i think is very beneficial. She is teaching me that pushing limits carefully, though persistently can be a very enlightening and freeing experience. She has even told me that my submission is a gift, and suggested it should not be given lightly.

If She were to choose to end our sessions, and time together now, even in a very abrupt fashion, i would miss Her, i would be surprised, but i would not regret the experience, and i would be grateful for what She has done for me. While i am a just "poor newbie sub"/slave who probably has no idea of what she speaks, i do feel this has been a very good experience for me, and i cannot believe it is so rare for subs/slaves to feel the same.

That is simply my two cents on the subject at hand. Thanks :)



< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 6/26/2007 9:22:35 AM >

(in reply to Woes)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 10:20:14 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Misrepresentation of what the trainer is after does bother me and the only way that can be determined is by the outcome. Since you quoted my (and Michael’s) 99.9% perceived statistic of trainers TRYING for more, I’ll also admit it could be wrong. I am sure there could be a greater percentage who NEVER TRY FOR MORE, but you have to admit the statistics seem to favor my view.

If we want to say in the middle of training that a change of mind has taken place, a realization that the trainer is who she wants or many other terms, fine, but you and I both know what has happened.


You used the word nobility elsewhere. Do you (or don't you; I don't want to put words in your mouth) feel that training which which is intended from the outset to involve these things is less noble than training of some other sort?

If you're decrying guys who claim to offer some sort of "hands-off" training fully intending to violate the spirit of that, then I'll join you in decrying them.

Would someone please tell me, though, how they got to know what must be thousands of people all around the world who engage in BDSM training, and evaluated their relationships, and determined less than one of a hundred is anything but a lying asshole dealing with stupid submissives?



Three good points. I don't think it is less noble if the parties concerned agree to hands on play as a means of teaching. Like I've said often here, do whatever you want to do if you go in knowing what is going to happen.

You say you will join me in decrying guys who offer hands off training fully intending to violate that. Then we are on the same page. About the statistic thrown out, sure, maybe it is not 99.9% turn out that way, but you seem to think there is a greater percentage who do the noble thing. That I disagree with.

Look at the posters here who agree with you, in almost every case they ended up playing with the trainer. I mean the thing has to speak for itself before long. It is what it is.

Admittedly, many also said playing with the trainer was not a bad thing and who can disagree about someone playing for whatever reason if that is what they expected and wanted? I know some happy folks on here who began as trainer/sub and are still together. Again if that is what you want, fine, but this is a discussion of expectations going in where the submissive is told the trainer will not play with her. 

It sounds like you are in the exact type relationship where you didn't become involved with the submissive on a physical level and I admire you for being such an honorable person with her. On the other hand if she had agreed that you would teach her and it would grow into a D/s relationship, why would anyone complain? It is all about perceptions going into things.

Woes presented a moving description of time with her trainer, yet,  even she said she thought it would move into sexual play soon enough. She is currently learning how to push her limits as an enlightening experience it appears. 

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:17:38 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Noah,

First off, my name is Michael, not Mike.


[how do you make that eye-roll smiley?] So it's cool for you to call anyone who buys into training stupid. It is okay for you to call anyone who experientially trains people in submission assholes, but you get all sniffy when someone calls you Mike?

I won't call you "pet", but only because I sense you would prefer the more formal: "petulant."


quote:

Secondly, I have some questions for you.


How charming, considering that you have run away and hid from every question I've put to you in recent threads on this issue, with one exception. I'll address your questions all the same.

quote:

Where do you meet the women you have trained?


In the usual sorts of places that men meet women.

quote:

Is this training conducted in the physical presence of the other person?


Much of it is. Some of it isn't.

quote:

How large is the scene you are in?


I don't operate in a "scene". I operate in a world. The same one you do.

quote:

What specifically do you teach them?


To more fully inhabit, appreciate and express their own submissiveness (which--note to Katy--strikes me as some pretty transferable stuff)

quote:

What percentage of people who seek training find it useful would you guess?


It would be fatuous of me to make uneducated guesses about such personal evaluations made by vast numbers of people I've never met and know nothing about. I note with interest and dismay that some people around here seem to thrive on that sort of talking out of their ass.

Here are some things I have noted, though, in regard to which you may think what you will:

Firstly, no one I've worked with has found it useless, nor have I in any of the same cases.

Secondly, I think it would be silly to extrapolate strong conclusions from a small and inexpertly drawn sample. That said we can note with mild interest the anecdotal data found in this thread. The personal accounts of training offerred here seem, in their majority, to come from people who have found it useful. Wouldn't you say?


Now that I have done you the courtesy of answering your questions, will you go back to the various questions of mine which you have failed to respond to, and respond to them here?

And by the way, can you explain how these questions of yours or their answers are meant to shed light on the issue at hand?





(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:19:36 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NControlofU

Uh, lets not overlook the fact that its not just the "poor newbie sub" who is taken by the "unscrupulous trainer" and gets caught up in all his charms and worldly ways.  There are subs who ask doms for training or mentoring, who are actually looking for more than that, who are looking for a long term d/s relationship and then get upset when the trainer or mentor doesn't reciprocate those feelings.

Its not all one-sided.


A good point, well said. I particularly like the way you could note a potential of danger of training, for one partner or the other, without lurching from there to unsupportable generalizations or insults to the people under discussion.

(in reply to NControlofU)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:24:40 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

[I just dont get people calling themselves mentors or trainers or teachers blahblahblah.  I have been trained throughout life by people who call themselves only by their names.  Calling yourself a 'trainer' - unless you have specific qualifications - is no more than a bit of an ego trip placing someone on a higher ledge than others.

My mother, my friends, my family - everyone is a trainer or a teacher or a mentor.
And Darcy trains me constantly.  But he doesn't have this 'need' to define himself as a trainer.

We all are 'trainers' - we are all 'learners' - and its when you forget that you end up drowning in the deep end.




I'm intersted in the fact that it is okay for you to call this or that person (your mother, your friends, your family) trainers while it is invalid for those people to apply the same word to themselves. How does that work?




< Message edited by Noah -- 6/26/2007 8:51:42 PM >

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:41:37 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Three good points. I don't think it is less noble if the parties concerned agree to hands on play as a means of teaching. Like I've said often here, do whatever you want to do if you go in knowing what is going to happen.

...

Look at the posters here who agree with you, in almost every case they ended up playing with the trainer. I mean the thing has to speak for itself before long. It is what it is.


Steel, what I've been focusing on throughout the thread has been experiential training. That is to say that actually doing the things the training is about is an important part of the training itself. There is no eventually about it. It is built in from the start.

If others want to carefully avoid getting any actual experience in their training, that's cool with me. If others want to start at ten paces and eventually get closer, that;s cool too.




quote:

Admittedly, many also said playing with the trainer was not a bad thing and who can disagree about someone playing for whatever reason if that is what they expected and wanted? I know some happy folks on here who began as trainer/sub and are still together. Again if that is what you want, fine, but this is a discussion of expectations going in where the submissive is told the trainer will not play with her. 


Quite a few things have been discussed here beyond just that, by my count.


quote:

It sounds like you are in the exact type relationship where you didn't become involved with the submissive on a physical level and I admire you for being such an honorable person with her. On the other hand if she had agreed that you would teach her and it would grow into a D/s relationship, why would anyone complain? It is all about perceptions going into things.


If the training is in submission then the training relationship is a D/s relationship, in the way the terms seem natural and comfortable to me. There is no "growing into a D/s relationship". Each and every case of experiential submissiveness training is inescapably a D/s relationship. Otherwise, where does the experience come from?

I'm still puzzled about this notion that it is somehow more honorable to avoid consensual sex than to engage in it.

I am in multiple relationships in which I did get involved with the submissive on a physical level. And I honest-to-gosh don't see that as less honorable than any other sort of caring, open-hearted interaction that people can have. I respect your right to see things differently but so far I'm still a little confused as to just how you see some of this stuff.

All the same I'm glad to note what seem to be a great deal of understanding between us, and broad agreement in many areas.

quote:

Woes presented a moving description of time with her trainer, yet,  even she said she thought it would move into sexual play soon enough. She is currently learning how to push her limits as an enlightening experience it appears. 


Again, what underlies this puritanical view of sexual interaction? If woes is busy learning about her limits and her own relationship to them, and if she is doing this by actually approaching them with a partner, this is experiential learning in just the sense I'm talking about. Maybe some of those limits are sexual and maybe some aren't. I have no idea.

Thanks for your comments throughout.


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:49:16 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

It's baffling to me, that those of us who have stated that we have been involved in a trainer-trainee type of relationship, with very positive results, are simply ignored or discounted by those who condemn these types of relationships, without ever having had any involvement in one.  i just don't get it.  i guess some people have made up their minds that all trainer-trainee relationships are bad and nothing will get them to change their views on that, no matter how much firsthand testimony is given to the contrary.


It is baffling to me too, joy. Could it be part and parcel with this general idea that subbies are incapable, insubstantial beings who can't be trusted to make their own decisions but need strangers to tell them how to live?

Or the more liberal version: that subbies are strong and capable women... until they get this "subbies fever" which comes over them like a case of the vapors and results in ... guess what ... the subbie magically becoming some incapable, insubstantial being who can't be trusted to make good decisions for herself.

I dunno.


(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 8:57:32 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Geee.. all this talk about training.  Training is just another method we learn in life.  Along with how-to-do books, videos, exchanging tips, techniques with one another.  Down to real hands on experiences in life itself.   Workshops and you name it.   Even use Domly types can be shown a good thing or two at times.  It's a whole process of knowledge at work, along with experience.   Training passes along both knowledge and experience at the same time.   What about training sessions for both the Master and slave at the same time.  LOL... OH crap perhaps group therapy is really needed.   The fact is that everybody learns differently than others.   Some people are more visual, others learn by repeating it over again.. Reading this thread just makes me want to reach for my asprin and down a glass of water.

(in reply to NControlofU)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 10:34:00 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		So Noah you do mostly online training and get pissy when I ask you to call me by my name.  Exactly why I have the opinion I do about "trainers".

So for the record I stand by my opinion that most (folks, most means that while SOME may have had wonderful experiences, MOST don't) who walk around touting themselves as trainers are manipulative and or idiots unable to maintain an actual relationship and use training as some sort of stalking horse to get their rocks off.

I base this on real world experience of running the largest bdsm group in a decent size metropolitan community for a couple of years, being involved in a couple of others, owning a public dungeon, playing, observing, attending classes, and talking to others in San Francisco, one of the largest and oldest BDSM communities in the US. 

For those who can't or won't see the difference between attending a class, offering up FREE advice, all without some quasi relationship wrapped around it isn't what we are referring to when we mock "training" and "trainers" I guess we will have to agree to disagree.



(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 10:46:38 PM   
Woes


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
Woes presented a moving description of time with her trainer, yet,  even she said she thought it would move into sexual play soon enough. She is currently learning how to push her limits as an enlightening experience it appears. 
 
i do not understand why my mentioning i imagine in time sexual play coming about in our training should lessen the validity of the true points of my post. The point still stands that the sole purpose of the training is not something as base as how to please Her. She is helping me shed things that restrict my ability to serve, and is preparing me mentally and emotionally for a life of service as this is my place, though i've fought it for long. Perhaps i should have further elaborated.
i did not state that learning her sexual likes and dislikes will come, only that in time, should we continue training long enough, i imagine it will. i cannot speak for Her, and i was in error to speak of such when it is uncertain. But whether it does or not is not the point. i mentioned such a possibility as i do not feel it is wrong or anyone is taking advantage of another, if such a decision is made after the sub or slave is prepared for such a step and if the trainer too wishes such. If the training has encompassed all that is possible for the sub and trainer to do, and both wish, why should any sexual play be avoided if there is mutual desire to move on to other "lessons"? It sounds as though some suggest if one is a trainer, any sexual contact should be avoided at all cost or some such idea.

Is it not the nature of human development and human relationship to evolve and grow, to change? (Note that i do not mean simple romantic or sexual relationship, rather a very general statement) That has always been my experience, and i should hope it is "normal" as otherwise everyone i have ever known are abnormal. Why should a trainer's relationships with other's be barred from normal development if it is welcome on both parts? It has been said that mother's could even be considered to be trainers of another variety. Should they too be prohibited from allowing their relationship with a child to evolve as the child matures? Mothers should not grow to see their children as friends and comrades in time; that is no different than suggesting trainers should never permit their relationships to their trainees to change at all.

Human nature and all it encompasses is not a static or concrete thing. We are all growing, and changing over time. To not do so is the abnormal behavior in my opinion.

If trainer and sub/slave wish it, i see no problems with them participating in sexual play. i also believe it could be beneficial. It is one thing for one such as i to learn to drop her inhibitions in a general fashion and to gradually learn to free herself and embrace her nature. However when put into practice in new ways, it is also normal to on occasion balk, or hesitate when one is new to such things. Not everyone will be patient or tolerate such behaviors. However, a slave or sub who has been training with someone, has likely come to trust their trainer very much and to feel safe with Him/Her. This would facilitate their first true experiences in BDSM oriented sexual play.
This said, i feel a need to state i do not think there should be any sense of obligation on either person's (trainer or sub) to engage in sexual play. Nor do i feel it appropriate that either person should use training as a source of trying to get an easy piece of ass.

That is certainly not my purpose nor my trainer's purpose. If that was Her purpose, she would have given up on me within a few minutes, i believe as i have been quite difficult at times, despite both of our best efforts. Though our arrangement is still new, she has already spent many hours patiently coaxing me, talking to me, and commanding me, and explaining many things to me. i do believe she honestly wants to help me become the best slave i can become in time. That, to this ignorant slave, is what training should be about if both are truly serious. Nothing less. And that is certainly transferable. More "specialized" skills such as how to best please Her would not be a part of general training should She and i both choose to take that step. That, if it comes without a new arrangement being made, i would consider "experimental learning" as Noah stated.

One further ramble which is kind of in line with some statements Noah made though on a bit of a tangent... i do not understand the opinions about sexual contact being such a horrid thing. Collectively, we are a diverse people with many different ideas and thoughts about what is healthy, unhealthy, acceptable or not etc. However to most "mainstream" people, we are all the same type of "deviants". It seems to me that "we" (collectively speaking) have enough people bashing us for things that are not harmful to others.

Do we need to contribute to the hate and misunderstanding?







(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/26/2007 10:57:20 PM   
Woes


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/15/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry for the double post. I just realized in all my rambling, i had omitted something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy


Wow!  Thank you, Woes, for adding your testimony to what some of us have said about our positive experiences with working with a trainer.  i think you are very brave to be so new to this forum and to BDSM and to step forward and state (very eloquently, btw) that you are having a very positive experience with your trainer. There are, obviously, a lot of misconceptions about trainers and what training is (just as there are many misconceptions about a lot of things) and some people seem to have made an "across the board"  negative judgment about trainers, without ever having had any experience with one. As i have posted here, and just as you have said, there is a lot more to submissive training than some people seem to think.  In my case, training wasn't about "learning" to do a specific task.  For me, training was about "retraining" my thoughts so that i could overcome the old, negative messages in my head that were keeping me from letting go of my inhibitions and were holding me down (more tightly than any rope ever has).  For me, training helped me to release myself from my own mental cage that i had been trapped in.   i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning how to be a submissive", i already was a submissive.  i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning how to give blow jobs", i already was well appreciated by my Dom in sucking and swallowing (and not just cum, btw).  i didn't go to a trainer, and my training wasn't about "learning" anything, other than about myself and how to allow my submissive, kinky self to be my submissive, kinky self, fearlessly and honestly. Training helped me to move forward in my submissiveness so that i could move closer to reaching my full potential as a submissive (which i am still working toward).  i came away with a truer sense about my submissiveness and how that submissiveness was something for me to embrace about myself, rather than struggle with trying to cope with or overcome. i am so glad that you posted here, Woes, and i wish you nothing less than a very positive and fulfilling experience with your training and beyond, (you "poor newbie sub/slave" you).  It sounds as though you are well on your way.____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David  


Thank you very much. It sounds as though our training had/has similar purposes. But your explanation in the above was much shorter and easier to read than my novel
Again thank you, and i wish you well on your journey.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/27/2007 4:13:26 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello Noah
 
I am not calling them that as a name - it was an example of what I feel people are.
 
They are my mother, my friends etc...  but they are all trainers within my life.  I just don't feel the need or desire to call them specifically a 'trainer'.  So why do people feel the need to say - 'I am so and so's trainer'? or I am a 'Mentor'?  When everyone is exactly that anyway in one form or another?  What makes a person so special to feel the need to be more than what they are as in 'I am a Mentor' - instead of just saying 'I am -  mum, Noah, or whatever a persons name is.'  We all teach.  We all learn.
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/27/2007 5:50:26 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		You mean New Slaves don't come with Training Wheels or a Quick Start beginners guide?

Umm something tells me I should drink my coffee carefully this morning, might end end up with a hot burning sensation in my chest with a coughing choking fit.
 
Come on, some people are into trainers and some simply are not.  It's a divided camp of two thought schools.  Nobody can ever truly win a debate such as this. 

It's like everything else there are Pro's and Con's.  I don't see where training would negate emotional aspects of a D/s relationship.   It's like getting schooled in etiquette in a sense when you think about it.
 
Like anything else there a great people that train, and really sucky people that attempt to train.  Same thing with teachers, lawyers, Doctors and even plumbers.  Some suck  and others are excellent.

Personally, I've never known anybody in the real time that has had a BDSM trainer.  It's been about workshops, books, networking with fellow BDSMers and Most of all exploring things as they come with other person.

Personally for me, exploring and communicating along with an imagination and doing a little reading and talking with others in the lifestyle has always helped without using a trainer.  But just because this is my path and the path of others I've known does not mean Trainers have no use or purpose.
 
I always make jokes about the need for a Dom Training Camp to be run by sadistic rednecks from the deep south. LOL...  In a sense this was part of my life experience for 10 years of my childhood compliments of living in Mobile, AL.   Learn all kinds of shit as child such as how to hog-tie, play with knifes, fire and other crazy bullshit.
 
I think some basic Martial Arts training has a purpose in a sense, where one gets to learn pressure points and parts of the body that are and are not safe to hit somebody in, but this is for Doms to know.
 
Perhaps submissives need to be aware of more things beside the proper kneeling positions, eye contact and other protocal things.  Like anything else, If I don't like something I can work on changing it..  Retraining.   The thing with training or a slave/sub that has had a previous Dom/Master for a long period of time, they are doing what the are used to, feel confident in doing. 
 
The thing I don't see is somebody spiting up training outlines or how to do here?  Perhaps if there was a thread on how to train, in terms of general concepts or ideas that can be applied, this would be of help to some of the newbie and perhaps even some of us that have been in this lifestyle might even pick up a new trick or two.

When do trainers or those that train stop learning new tricks?  There's also all the mental conditioning aspects as well.  There are emotional considerations as well, such as how to deal with somebody when they are feeling discouraged and need support and encouragement or just plain old fashioned kick in the ass?   So many considerations it's not funny.
 
Sure somebody is trained for some general things, however training and learning and growing never stops, it's an on going part of life.  Who here has fully Mastered it all?
 
Hell I can see another submissive training other submissives or even Dom/mes.   I can see Dom/mes training Subs or other Dom/mes even.  Perhaps even a Switch would make an excellent trainer.   Personally it's just another fancy title for a Teacher.  Workshops are all about learning and somebody teaches those things.
 
I have an interest in TENS units, I've been thinking about finding somebody who knows what they are doing to show me a thing or too.. might save me a lot of time. 

Hell, let's say I go Gorean over night, I'd want to seek out somebody that could train me in the Goaren ways..  regardless if was a Master or slave.  Training for myself and for my sub/slave at the same time.  Mmmmmm...  This might save some time in spending monthes of reading Gor Novels.. just to get a head start on things.  I'm not saying I'm going to go Gor, just using this as an example.

Some food for thought this morning!




 



 
   

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 6/27/2007 6:20:25 AM >

(in reply to NControlofU)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/27/2007 6:19:18 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

You mean New Slaves don't come with Training Wheels or a Quick Start beginners guide?


It would be so much easier if there were a set of universal traits that sub/slaves need, in order to feel good and adequate about their level of submission.  At least this way trainers would know how to train each sub/slave and all doms/masters would be happy with the end result. 

(btw, I'm not being serious)


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Trainers for submissives - 6/27/2007 6:42:03 AM   
hotwater07


Posts: 65
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

You mean New Slaves don't come with Training Wheels or a Quick Start beginners guide?
   

I think a Domming for Dummies guide would sell much more - it could include one of those cool key chain floggers.  At one time I'm sure there had to be a Complete Idiots Guide to Slaves and Subs, because of all complete idiots who continue to surface everywhere.

Care to share some of that coffee?

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 140
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