RE: No, Islam isn't a nation.

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RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/24/2007 9:17:12 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Okay... I have to admit to you that straight after reading your opening sentence my urge was to ditch your post altogether. But I stuck it out, after all, that is why I posted the original after all: to get a discussion going.

So... I never actually spoke of 'The Nation of Islam'. I said that Islam wasn't a nation. Back to the history books.

Also... has it occurred to you that everybody in the USA today is actually an immigrant, bar those that were here originally - and who were nearly completely destroyed by the good Christians? I'm very glad this post is going strong, because although I have to hit the hay I am looking forward to reading the responses to the BBC's link tomorrow.

Don't let the bugs bite.

Actually not everyone is an immigrant, we may have immigrant ancestors but 2/3 of the occupants of most land areas are not the original inhabitants, so the point is a red herring. Immigration uncontrolled puts a huge burden on the social system, and is a security risk I am not willing to take. The laws are there, just uphold them, and that is the job of the executive branch. Every time an illegal immigrant comes across and males a living, it devalues an immigrant that followed the rule of law and worked hard to get here.

Also, everyone should do some research on honor killings in the Islamic community.

Orion

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Post #: 41

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 1:43:46 AM

stella40

Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why "diversity" is such a "good" thing!
Just the opposite has served mankind in good stead for millenia.

Why Popeye, you yourself are one of the STRONGEST arguments in favour of "diversity". And you are a living argument in favour of diversity too. Think about it.

Can you imagine these discussion boards without you? No, because you add something to these web boards. I would also assume that you add something to the New Hampshire scenery and community too.

Okay. So now try to imagine that everyone here, including me, is exactly like you. No stella40, no kittinsol, no farglebargle, just Popye, and..Popeye... and Popeye... and...Popeye. Would you feel like posting anything? Would you disagree with yourself? Do you disagree with yourself?

I mean, just imagine how interesting it would be having a beer with someone exactly the same as you. Living with someone exactly the same as you. Sleeping with someone exactly the same as you. All your neighbours would be.... just like... Popeye.

Methinks you would go nuts pretty quickly.

IMO you bring something to these discussion boards, you add something, nobody can write postings like you can, or come up with the same points, or make other people laugh and think.

You are an individual. Everyone here is an individual. Sure, you may be the typical all-American, but so too are many people using these boards. And you are all different.

Isn't it good to be you? And isn't it the case that what makes you so good is what makes you stand out from other people?

I mean, do you really want to be a stereotype? Maybe not, so why look at others as if they are stereotypes?

Just the opposite has served mankind in good stead for millenia.

Really?

So you don't watch television? You don't use electricity? You don't drink beer? You never listen to the radio? Never walk along a street made with asphalt?

All these things come from people who stood out from the rest. Why, you wouldn't even be American if a crowd of people didn't decide to stand up to the British.

And taking this further, if it wasn't for a crowd of illegal immigrants you might actually be called not Popeye but Big Chief Sitting Buffalo, sitting outside a wigwam and sending smoke signals.

And so it is with Muslims. Sure, you get a few nutters, but the majority of them are decent people just like yourself.

Who do you believe in, stereotypes or people?

Is this a good enough explanation?

< Message edited by stella40 -- 6/25/2007 1:46:02 AM >

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If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

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Post #: 42

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 2:10:45 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Of course I saw the cartoons.

Did you hear about Salman Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses' in the nineties? You're taking a couple of isolated facts, and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Actually, Rushdie's book was released in the late 80's, but the Fatwa stands apparently. I"M making mountains out of molehills? The author of a boring ass book was sentenced to death for a dream sequence in a work of fiction... By a religion that shrieks worse than Fargle caught in a contradiction if you call it anything but "Peaceful."

Fuck that.

lol, well said , Rich

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Post #: 43

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 3:20:48 AM

Vendaval

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FB, could you state the names in addition to the initials of the various Bible translations?
(KJV is obviously King James Version.)

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Post #: 44

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 3:27:08 AM

Vendaval

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Thank you both for the links, kittin and Level.

I do think that problems in all 3 of these religions come not from
the moderates in the middle but the fundamentalist militants.

It is a sad and terrible irony that all 3 of these major religions are
related and interwoven both in faith and in violence.

I think this says more about the nature of human beings than
the Nature of Divinity.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 45

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 5:31:04 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Also... has it occurred to you that everybody in the USA today is actually an immigrant, bar those that were here originally

Are you talking about the ones that immigrated over the ice bridge from Siberia?

Prior to them, there were no homo sapiens on the continent.

Sinergy

Yes, they're the ones I was referring to. Good call, Sin!

Still, these people were here before anybody else, so... we owe them one I reckon. And they're the primary example that ought to make the xenophobes out there be ashamed of themselves.

But shame, or regret, is something most wilfully ignorant people cannot feel. So I've noticed anyway.

Those shmucks.

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Post #: 46

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 5:33:01 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Fuck that.

I can feel your frustration, Hermetic, but you really shouldn't get that excited about a Muslim getting a threat from other Muslims.

Or should you :-) ?

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Post #: 47

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 5:36:46 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why "diversity" is such a "good" thing!
Just the opposite has served mankind in good stead for millenia.

Why Popeye, you yourself are one of the STRONGEST arguments in favour of "diversity". And you are a living argument in favour of diversity too. Think about it.

Can you imagine these discussion boards without you? No, because you add something to these web boards. I would also assume that you add something to the New Hampshire scenery and community too.

Okay. So now try to imagine that everyone here, including me, is exactly like you. No stella40, no kittinsol, no farglebargle, just Popye, and..Popeye... and Popeye... and...Popeye. Would you feel like posting anything? Would you disagree with yourself? Do you disagree with yourself?

I mean, just imagine how interesting it would be having a beer with someone exactly the same as you. Living with someone exactly the same as you. Sleeping with someone exactly the same as you. All your neighbours would be.... just like... Popeye.

Methinks you would go nuts pretty quickly.

IMO you bring something to these discussion boards, you add something, nobody can write postings like you can, or come up with the same points, or make other people laugh and think.

You are an individual. Everyone here is an individual. Sure, you may be the typical all-American, but so too are many people using these boards. And you are all different.

Isn't it good to be you? And isn't it the case that what makes you so good is what makes you stand out from other people?

I mean, do you really want to be a stereotype? Maybe not, so why look at others as if they are stereotypes?

Just the opposite has served mankind in good stead for millenia.

Really?

So you don't watch television? You don't use electricity? You don't drink beer? You never listen to the radio? Never walk along a street made with asphalt?

All these things come from people who stood out from the rest. Why, you wouldn't even be American if a crowd of people didn't decide to stand up to the British.

And taking this further, if it wasn't for a crowd of illegal immigrants you might actually be called not Popeye but Big Chief Sitting Buffalo, sitting outside a wigwam and sending smoke signals.

And so it is with Muslims. Sure, you get a few nutters, but the majority of them are decent people just like yourself.

Who do you believe in, stereotypes or people?

Is this a good enough explanation?

Stella40 I'm quoting your post in its entirety because I found it extremely touching. Thank you.

_____________________________

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Post #: 48

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 6:27:21 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Funny that stereotypes are touted as being bad in what amounts to a stereotypical slam on the people of the USA.

Most of the people I know, and I would hazard to say I know a representative sampling of the US Southeastern region population, know very well that it's not all muslims who are the problem. Are there some folks who don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around the idea that muslim does not always mean the same thing? sure there is a certain lack of understanding about exactly what muslims believe. Hell we have the same level of "ignorance" when it comes to many christian denominations, when it comes to folks of the Jewish faith, and most any other faith than those practiced in the towns and cities we actually live in. Lack of exposure the prime cause.

But most folks seem to know, that it's not all of any group that creates the problem. They speak in general terms and don't always think through the problem when they are speaking about it. They over generalize and when called on it they have a rightious indignation reaction of "You know I don't mean all of them."

But to ignore the common denominators of who is doing what is as silly as makeing the huge sweeping generalizations.
There are sects within the Islamic faith that are bent on world theocracy.
There are sects of Christianity that are bent on the same thing.
To my knowledge the Jewish faith has no such sect, they are in fact one of the few religions that actuall try to disuade conversions.

So my point is Islam is not a "nation" is certainly correct but it is also somewhat misleading. There are certainly nations who are Islamic, There are certainly folks out there working actively to create theocracies of an Islamic nature.
There are certainly folks out there who would love to see the entire world under an Islamic Theocracy.

Media bias sure there is some but reching the level of propaganda? I don't see it.
In fac the hated FOX network just last night aired the documentary that PBS turned down showing Muslims who have been actively speaking out against the terrorists of Islamic faith that to their minds give them a bad name.
See Story http://www.cnsnews.com/Culture/archive/200704/CUL20070425c.html

And of all places to find it on the dreaded FOX news channel, after being turned down by PBS (Public Broadcasting System)

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 49

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 6:34:53 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Fuck that.

I can feel your frustration, Hermetic, but you really shouldn't get that excited about a Muslim getting a threat from other Muslims.

Or should you :-) ?

Was this guy a muslim too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 50

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 7:18:39 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Those shmucks.

I agree completely.

Those damn immigrants slaughtered most of the large animals in the Americas. They deforested the American midwest.

As Axl Rose pointed out "They come to our country, and think they'll do as they please."

We should ship them all back to Siberia and let the America's recover.

Sinergy

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Post #: 51

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 7:57:05 AM

kittinSol

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Post #: 52

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 8:02:32 AM

mnottertail

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Next we will find out that Islamabad is not where they go to take baths.

Heinie von Bad Toelz

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Post #: 53

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 8:52:21 AM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
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Actually a lot of new archeology is showing that there were people here before the "natives" crossed the land bridge. the "kenewick man", is the most well known, but they have found dozens of bodies and sites that predate the land bridge crossing.

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Post #: 54

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. - 6/25/2007 10:49:54 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Stella, thankyou for your kind words and complements and I enjoy reading your posts as well.
I think you kind of missed my point or I wasn't clear enough in making it more likely.
I don't think that our govt. should be *dictating* to us either through legislation or judicially about how "diverse" this country should be.
Nor should they be (telling) us who we have to hire or who has to immigrate to this country.
I'm kind of old fashioned in that I think that "government" should be the servant of the People not the master of the People.
I'm sure George Bush would not agree with me.
But, Bush isn't a Republican like he claims to be
I just don't think it's the government's job to be "telling" us what's "good" for us.
And I don't think that shooting down the Euro-Centric accomplishments of the U.S. by the diversity mongers serves any constructive purpose whatever.
Look at African, Hispanic and other countries. Have any of them come as close to the U.S. in accomplishing what we have?
And if they're so nice why are so many of the inhabitants trying to flee those countries for Western countries?
"Diversity" by chance isn't a bad thing. "Diversity" by fiat is not a good thing.
Personally I wouldn't want to see *our* govt. decree that we must import 50,000 Irish into the country. For what purpose?
We're not in the 1890's anymore. We really don't "need" immigration or "diversity" at this point in our country's developement. (Big Business wants it for slave labor.)
I don't understand why some people want to force their sense of thinking on other people.
And, it's simple human nature that people want to be around other people who think like them and who they have things in common with. (CM for instance)
I'm lisensed to carry a firearm. I wouldn't "force" someone else to carry one if it was against their wishes.
We're supposed to have the right of "free association" in this country.
I don't know about you but I really don't care to be the subject of someone's sociological experiment.
Funny thing, white males aren't considered to be "diverse."
Unless you count white Hispanic males. (Must be the names.)
I'd like to see an experiment where a "diverse" society is started that excludes white males.

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Post #: 55

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