RE: Islam

RE: Islam (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Islam

Islam is misrepresented by the American media, generally

30% (14)

Islam is represented accurately by the American media, generally

10% (5)

I have a favorable view of Islam, generally

19% (9)

I have a negative view of Islam, generally

39% (18)

Total Votes : 46

(last vote on : 8/12/2007 2:24:57 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

darchChylde -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:32:45 PM)
it's funny how it's only the exteme ends of the spectrum get any attention, ask the Christian Fundamentalists the Islamic religion is not too different from the standard Judeo-Christian ideals that most people accept as the roots of the standards of moral activity in most western countries... it's mostly all about who's a prophet and who's a Messiah, hell even the bible has it's verses ordering one to eliminate those who believe differently; basically, religion must evolve with the world around it Christian, Israeli, and Islamic fundamentalists may get the coverage; but most people are part of the middle-of-the-road paths of acceptance and tolerance try to get to know people of different cultures and beliefs on an individual basis, this may open your eyes

lippyangelicsub -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:35:12 PM)
best ask Ayatollah Khomeini that one, i was never privy to his thoughts, and in all honesty if Salman Rushdie walked down the street where i live (very high proportion of muslims) i doubt we would all don our hijaabs and such and start flying down the street after him brandishing knives in the air ready to slice n dice him. Khomeini in my view and this is just a personal view is a good example of a fanatic, and if the people themselves are being threatened by the so called religious leaders , doesn't that say to anyone that yes it is a peaceful religion its just the maiacs that get hold of power that erm screw it up. lippy

Level -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:35:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lippyangelicsub Hi Level i cannot say how i would feel as i haven't lived in either country but if you wait a 2 yrs let me finish at uni lol i will let you know as i am relocating to one of either of those two countries then :) lippy I wish you well, then, and I would be interested in your thoughts once there!

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:46:59 PM)
Islam is misrepresented because most of Us are not Muslim's, and know very little about Mohammed and how He spread Islam. I have lived in Saudi Arabia while working there. I know several Saudi's personally and have listened to what They had to say without argument or judgement. I am no expert on Islam, but I have first hand exposure with Arabs here in the United States and in Their Country. Hey did You know Slavery was legal in Saudi Arabia up too 1972. Found that on the internet while searching about Slavery. Also found that Muslim's cannot own other Muslim's, and that is why the Saudi Government made it against the law for Islamic Missionaries to go into certain African Countries to convert new Muslim's. If the Missionaries converted these Africans too Islam then They could not ake Slaves of Them back in Saudi Arabia.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain quote: ORIGINAL: Level Thank you for your input, N; beautiful new pic, also! In what ways do you see our media misrepresenting Islam? Thanks! I could be a smart-alec and say that the very fact that the original question needed to be asked gives you the answer. Honestly, though, I would be hard-pressed to give you specific examples. It just seems that all the stories I have seen on Islam in the news haven't been about any of the positive things that they could have been. For example (and I know this is local and I'm in a very red state), our "Religion" section of the local paper (don't get me started) covers all of the local Christian churches' and occasionally the Jewish temple's happenings and goings-on, but the only time you see Islam mentioned is in the editorial section asking the same question that is being polled here, on in a very negative light in articles. Keep in mind that I live five blocks from a major university (Purdue) with a significant Islamic population. We have mosques. There are positive things going on. They just don't get covered. Now, take this up a notch to the national level, and my experience at the local level doesn't seem to have changed much. You only see the negative press or the half-heartedly neutral, questioning press, never the positive. My state's redder than yours......[:-] Hmm, not always a good thing [>:] Let me ask this: why do you think there is a misrepresentation of Islam here? Here, as in collarchat? Or here as in the US? If you meant collarchat, it's because, as with any mass group, lots of loud idiots usually get more attention than the wiser and more reserved minority. If you meant the US, it's pretty much exactly the same thing.

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 1:59:03 PM)
I agree with the statement to get to know others, but in the larger picture some of those individuals are still and always will be one of the Collective Power Base. The Saudi's I know and that know Me get along together well, butThey als let Me know that if Their Claric told Them to do something They would and not let Our Friendship interfere with Their Religious Leaders Commands. That is more of a Political Influence using Religion as a tool to control the masses than anyone acting because of Religious beliefs. Islam is here and will be for a very long time, and Good Luck trying to convert Them away from Islam.

Gauge -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:02:34 PM)
Let's pretend for a minute that there is no religion. OK.... Now, let's now break down humanity into two characteristics: Fuckwits and non-fuckwits. The fuckwits will take anything and use it to their advantage even if it means twisting a basic philosophical truism into something perverse. They will shun anyone that does not conform to what they believe is right, be it a political belief or a religious belief. In fact, the fuckwits will even go as far as to kill in the name of what they believe even if it is contrary to the fundamental teachings of their beliefs. The non-fuckwits are those that try to do their best to follow something they believe in. They understand that not everyone believes the way they do and they accept that fact. They really have a live and let live attitude toward most everything. Most of the non-fuckwits are just out to make the world a better place by practicing some kind of good deeds, whatever they may be. Muslim is the new American buzz word. If the mass media existed during the Christian Crusades then, without a doubt, Christianity would be the new media buzz word. Negativity sells and no matter what, people cannot seem to get enough of it. I will never forget sitting with some friends and one of my friends said, "Fuck the Goddamn Muslim towel-heads!" I looked at him (this guy was more of an acquaintance than anything... I choose my friends better than that) and I said, "How many Muslim people do you know?" I added, "How many Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians or Afghanis do you know?" He looked at me and said "Thank God I don't know any of them!" I told him that (at that time I was married) my sister-in-law was married to an Iranian. I had met his family. I had met friends of his. I cannot say when I ever felt more welcomed than when I walked into his home. I told him that he (the guy I was talking to) was a fuckwit... and he (the guy I was talking to) was. The point is that Muslim is really only a title to me...it is the person behind the title that either represents their beliefs well or not. The only thing I really hate is the dancin' banana.

Level -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:05:39 PM)
Some short vids on Islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1hocXdu_XI&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTShwSWOaJE

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:07:33 PM)
Yes, I was speaking in a more Global sense, but You are also correct that as in a Global sense Collarme Chat does have its share of the same people. That is a Good Thing. Maybe one day People will stop using Religion as a Polarizing tool too motive the emotions of the Masses against an enemy. People are weakest and most easily influenced in the name of Religion. It was nice to hear from You. Thanks

RazorJAK -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:11:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle Why did Ayatollah Khomeini issue a fatwa calling on Muslims to kill Salmon Rushdie if it’s such a peaceful religion? You can only judge a religion by its most notable religious leaders and followers. So we can only judge christianity by the the words and actions of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and other fuck-knuckles like that? Thanks, that clears up a LOT.

Level -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:29:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge Muslim is the new American buzz word. If the mass media existed during the Christian Crusades then, without a doubt, Christianity would be the new media buzz word. Negativity sells and no matter what, people cannot seem to get enough of it. The only thing I really hate is the dancin' banana. Excellent point, Gauge. I see Islam as being on the evolutionary curve about a couple of centuries behind Christianity, meaning some Christians behaved rather badly, like during the Inquisition, but to a large degree, have grown out of such behaviour. Can Islam do the same? Yes. Will it? I hope so.... I believe God speaks to us in many ways, and in many forms. We, being highly imperfect scribes, however, sometimes mess up that message, and some nefarious sorts have tried to hijack said message. Look for kindness, and love, and charity, and truth, and courage, and there you'll find God, in my humble opinion. If you see hate, violence, and heartlessness, you'll smell the hand of mankind in it, or at best, ignorance.

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:30:11 PM)
Thats right, people are people and there are good and bad ones evrywhere. You met several that are good People in Your environment. Why are They living here? Could it be They found Iranians in Iran as a threat too Them and Their safety? Unfortunately that is a common case. I have lived and worked within 10 miles of Mecca. They have several freeways there and one of them has a road sign in English stating that is the "NON MUSLIM ROAD". No non-Muslims are wanted on the freeway going into Mecca. I know, I saw, and I drove on aid Road. Have You ever seen a 12 lane street with 6 lanes in each direction? I have in the city of Medina. It usually has 5 lanes all trying to make the left had turn. They stack up like marbles in the corner of a box all wanting to be the first to get around the corner. No one is more important than themselves. A 'ME' first type of attitude. They don't believe in alcohol, drugs and other vices publicly. They do had meeting places in public where They gather with Friend and smoke those Big Water Pipes. It was during a Major religious period I met a Saudi in our neighborhood and He invited Us to join Him in His home to celebrate. Very generous and very polite. I asked Him what they smoke in those pipes, and He said fermented fruit. I'm not sure if You know it or not, but when You ferment fruit You get ALCOHOL. They can somke what ever They like, but They are not really very honest about truly following the Religious Rules They sayare the most rightious in the world of all religions. Been there, saw that, and can only speak from what I personally know.

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 2:34:53 PM)
Absolutely not, and Definetly the opposite. Those people are the poorst examples of anything close to prophets or leaders. Each persons needs to be able to think and reason and then act on His/Her own knowedge and understanding on right and wrong. Too me that is what any Religious Book should be trying too convey.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Islam (6/24/2007 6:32:27 PM)
as i read this, i have realized this could be said for most religions to one extreme or another. since i was raised baptist, i will use them as an example......you never hear about the good ones that take care of poor families, offer classes to people, get involved in the community in a positive way.... but let one crazy sob in the woods wag a rattlesnake at his congregation and proclaim that to be a way of showing faith.....its all over the news. loving, kind acts are not news.....which is sad as hell and for another thread.......

FullCircle -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 1:41:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RazorJAK So we can only judge christianity by the the words and actions of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and other fuck-knuckles like that? Thanks, that clears up a LOT. I did already say I despise all religions for the reason that they can be interpreted however an individual feels. So many people do bad things and say “I did it because god wanted me to.” i.e. “I killed someone because god wanted me to, even though god could strike anyone down with a bolt of lightening he still wanted me to do it; to prove my devotion.” The other problem is that even the moderates rely on hard line religious fanatics to spread their beliefs through fear. Why is it that acts of terrorism are rarely condemned by moderates but instead they talk of hurt and upset in the Muslim world? They are almost saying terrorism is justified through the omission of condemnation. Also remember there is no other religion I know of whose followers use the term non-believer as frequently as Islam does. The text is fundamentally wrong if it in any way can be used to inspire fanatics. The prophet that wrote it was not speaking from god because god would not be such a fool as to author a text that could be misinterpreted that way. There are plenty of other religious texts that don’t. The bible is the second worst religious text in my opinion. Surely god understands that humans are prone to irrational acts of violence so why author a book filled with blood from start to finish? Even I know there are better ways than the tactics used in the Koran and Bible, such as fear of violence, to inspire people to live the right way in life. Does this make me wiser than god or is it that maybe god didn’t play any part in producing these texts?

Mikal -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 5:08:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle ... The bible is the second worst religious text in my opinion... edited by moi Actually, the Christian Bible, as it is today, is not complete. There are massive amouts of text missing (anyone remember the Apocrypha? Good luck finding it in a current edition). Most by intention (aforementioned Apocrypha - it was thought that the general lay person would become confused as it appears to contradict other parts... it doesn't, but unless you are a historian/scholar, it is easy to interpret it as contradictory. Also, there are other Books of the Bible that are basic re-peats of what has already been said - to my knowlege, this mostly involves the apostles). I visited the Vatican in 2000; in the museum was a bible from the early 1300's. It was written in very small print, both sides, and was 17 volumes. Granted, there were some amazing full size pictures, but still... these books were NOT small - much larger than the standard hardcovers of today. Point is, there is a lot of information missing from the modern bible. Finally, please keep in mind that the bible is translated from at least 3 different languages, from different times and cultures. There are numerous interpretive mistakes (ie: the sixth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Kill is actually Thou Shalt Not Murder - ask someone who is fluent in Hebrew). Just think of the saying "it's raining cats and dogs". Most people who grew up speaking English will know that you are referring to a torrential downpour of rain. But if you translate it literally, well, you have problems. Depending on the culture you are translating it to, they may think that you are cursed (because you have animals falling from the sky), blessed (same reason), or any other such thing that their culture relates to/interprets such a saying. Now, separate the culture by a continent and several hundered years... Big Misinterpretations Occur! I could go on, but I think this covers what I'm trying to say. I'm getting off the soap box now.

darchChylde -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 5:13:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge Let's pretend for a minute that there is no religion. OK.... Now, let's now break down humanity into two characteristics: Fuckwits and non-fuckwits. The fuckwits will take anything and use it to their advantage even if it means twisting a basic philosophical truism into something perverse. They will shun anyone that does not conform to what they believe is right, be it a political belief or a religious belief. In fact, the fuckwits will even go as far as to kill in the name of what they believe even if it is contrary to the fundamental teachings of their beliefs. The non-fuckwits are those that try to do their best to follow something they believe in. They understand that not everyone believes the way they do and they accept that fact. They really have a live and let live attitude toward most everything. Most of the non-fuckwits are just out to make the world a better place by practicing some kind of good deeds, whatever they may be. Muslim is the new American buzz word. If the mass media existed during the Christian Crusades then, without a doubt, Christianity would be the new media buzz word. Negativity sells and no matter what, people cannot seem to get enough of it. I will never forget sitting with some friends and one of my friends said, "Fuck the Goddamn Muslim towel-heads!" I looked at him (this guy was more of an acquaintance than anything... I choose my friends better than that) and I said, "How many Muslim people do you know?" I added, "How many Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians or Afghanis do you know?" He looked at me and said "Thank God I don't know any of them!" I told him that (at that time I was married) my sister-in-law was married to an Iranian. I had met his family. I had met friends of his. I cannot say when I ever felt more welcomed than when I walked into his home. I told him that he (the guy I was talking to) was a fuckwit... and he (the guy I was talking to) was. The point is that Muslim is really only a title to me...it is the person behind the title that either represents their beliefs well or not. The only thing I really hate is the dancin' banana. Guage, you're starting to really piss me off. If you must start speaking intelligently, I will have to start taking you seriously. I have to tell you that I just don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Level -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 5:16:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mikal I could go on, but I think this covers what I'm trying to say. I'm getting off the soap box now. Thanks for soapboxing [:D]. I have yet to read the Apocrypha, but plan on doing so sooner than later.

doxem -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 5:41:34 PM)
You have said it best as it can be said. Some people are good, some are bad, and some need to be terminated for the good of the masses if they can not see the light.

Level -> RE: Islam (6/25/2007 5:43:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: doxem You have said it best as it can be said. Some people are good, some are bad, and some need to be terminated for the good of the masses if they can not see the light. I'm not sure that's what Mikal was saying, but I could be wrong.....

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