Complete submission or blind following?

Complete submission or blind following? (Full Version)

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MisstressNboytoy -> Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 5:18:15 AM)
Recently, I've seen a lot of posts in the forums from subs that have greatly surprised me. From the thread in this section about financial domination to the health and safety section about std's, submissives continue to express their unfaltering devotion to their owners no matter what is being asked of them. Complete submission and trust is a beautiful thing, but is it truly ever all right to stop thinking of your own well-being in order to please your owner? I'm not talking about refusing to do dishes because american idol is on tv, the issues from the above mentioned threads were much more serious. For example, a few women in the thread about std's remarked that they would happily have unprotected sex with men if their master ordered them to, because their bodies belonged to him no matter what he chose to do with them. ... and I was thinking, WHAT? I'm sure a lot of subs believe that their owners have all of their best interests in mind. Maybe they do. I do the best I can to ensure I don't make decisions that would endanger my submissive in any way, but the fact is, somehow it would be a big turn off if I thought he would run out in front of bus because I said so. (Which is basically the same as having unprotected sex.) And who's to say I always know what the best thing for him is? Though I will always do my best to take care of him, I will also always expect him to tell me if I give him an order that is simply not feasible / is dangerous / etc. So, when your master or mistress gives you an order, what is the thought process that goes through your mind? Do you do it immediately no matter what, or do you think about what the consequences might be? Where is the line between where you wouldn't think about it at all, and where you would refuse? Have you talked it over with your owner, so that he or she will know ahead of time?

Dane -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 5:41:56 AM)
Hello M'nBoyToy, The whole question becomes a moot point if the owner clearly and faithfully explains the reasons for his orders, makes sure the sub/slave understands him and his mindset, and doesn't throw in stupid and pointless surprises like telling them to drink paint or go rub up against strangers in the grocery store. The relationship gets to the point that trust in his decisions is established, where the sub/slave has no real need to be questioning except out of interest and curiosity. If owner's orders are begining to not make sense and the rest of his/her behaviour is becoming irrational too, it becomes the sub/slave's new chore to seek help and treatment for the afflicted.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 5:51:20 AM)
Well for me I know Master wouldn't ask me to do something that would harm me. So I obey when he asks of me to do something because I know he will not cause harm in me. There are those that blindly follow and so called dominants that will give and order without regards to the submissives safety. This is wrong to me and dangerous. I know Master wouldn't ask me to live that way but if someone else is going to without regards to their own safety then it is their life. I may not agree with it but is it up to me to judge?

countrygirl69 -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 6:05:11 AM)
It's all about trust if you don't trust your Master enough then you shouldnt be with him /her .they are not going to put you in harms way

Tatshua -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 6:06:19 AM)
I think it whould be wrong to even concider, for example, letting your sub drink paint as it's obvious to anyone that that could cause death. Though there are ofcourse other things that probably isn't as obvious. I whould never give my own rights away 100%. But isn't it to the masters responcibility to know what is good for his/her sub? We all make mistakes, so accidents could happend and other things coulf come up. I've only acted out bdsm online. And once, my mistress told me to have sex with a woman while my mistress was watching. And one this this woman wanted me to do was to eat and drink whatever came out of her... Wich my mistress didn't want me to do and that I refused to do anyway, I know I was in a sub possition here. But I am still an intelligent being and to consume what that woman wanted me to... Well... I am free to try things, but not that. So I stepped out of character and refused to do it.

SubinMaine -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 7:23:54 AM)
i agree with the common theme of response. First, Sir would NEVER put me in the position of damage in any way. Through trust and commitment to being submissive to him, i have learned that he would never do so, therefor i do not question his instructions at all. If, however, His demands suddenly changed (having unprotected sex with anyone but Him or His having unprotected sex with anyone but me), i would speak out against it because it's considered a "hard limit" for me. That sort of action would have me seriously reconsidering the relationship. But this is a moot point because He wouldn't ever do this smile Basically, if there is a danger the submissive will be injured in ANY way, it is the submissive's responsibility to her/himself to address the problem/fear/insert emotion or action here _______ with her Sir.

Tatshua -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 8:26:03 AM)
Yeah, I think thats a big part too. A sub that knows his/her master knows where he/she can trust his/her master, and when he/she has to say no. The dom is the dom. But it's still a relationship. Even if a master might, in the future, do things to me that I'd never come up with myself I'd always tell him when it's too much.

shyinini -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 9:06:19 AM)
I am going to answer this based soley on my knowledge, experience and the last 6 months. quote: ORIGINAL: MisstressNboytoy Recently, I've seen a lot of posts in the forums from subs that have greatly surprised me. From the thread in this section about financial domination to the health and safety section about std's, FYI: I have not read these threads. submissives continue to express their unfaltering devotion to their owners no matter what is being asked of them. First there is nothing inherently "wrong" with unfaltering devotion. Expressing one's devotion and "proving" ones devotion is very different. If an owner KNOWS their property, they (D) will NOT demand they(s) do what they know will emotionally, physically, mentally harm them. This has nothing to do with pushing limits. I will give an example. I implicitly (Having no doubts or reservations; unquestioning: implicit trust) TRUST my Sir because over the last 5 months, He has NEVER given reason for me to mistrust him. He frequently will ask, "Will my girl do anything I ask of her?" He knows me emotionally and mentally, I KNOW it. I can say "Yes Sir" unwaveringly. In the last D/s relationship, he did NOT know me as this dom does but demanded "blind obedience." I did not know how harmful it would be then, but I was quite fearful many times of his demands, knowing that putting myself in social, physical and emotinal danger was a consequence of "blind obedience" to him. He was also rarely present when demanded to put myself in harms way.... it was his way or the highway. This is NOT my Sir now. Yesterday, He again asked, "will you do anything for me?" Implicitly I said "yes." Lo and behold, He had a surprise for me. 3 new things... they were not limits, just new and He loves surprising me. BUT I am safely with Him, in His presence. If the former Dom had expected/demanded these 3 new things by blind obedience Iwould have been emotionally semi traumatized. Complete submission and trust is a beautiful thing, but is it truly ever all right to stop thinking of your own well-being in order to please your owner? ONLY IF YOU HAVE IMPLICIT TRUST IN YOUR OWNER. I'm not talking about refusing to do dishes because american idol is on tv, the issues from the above mentioned threads were much more serious. For example, a few women in the thread about std's remarked that they would happily have unprotected sex with men if their master ordered them to, because their bodies belonged to him no matter what he chose to do with them. ... and I was thinking, WHAT? Yes, out of "blind obedience" I did this. My present Sir, would never require or demand it. In fact, when he learned about some of the things I did permit in "blind obedience," He was disappointed in me for allowing it and having such a poor self image. I'm sure a lot of subs believe that their owners have all of their best interests in mind. Maybe they do. I do the best I can to ensure I don't make decisions that would endanger my submissive in any way, but the fact is, somehow it would be a big turn off if I thought he would run out in front of bus because I said so. (Which is basically the same as having unprotected sex. (AMEN !! AMEN !! AMEN !!) And who's to say I always know what the best thing for him is? Though I will always do my best to take care of him, I will also always expect him to tell me if I give him an order that is simply not feasible / is dangerous / etc. I believe IF you know your submissive, you WILL know if it is simply not feasible or is dangerous. So, when your master or mistress gives you an order, what is the thought process that goes through your mind? This Sir I know is totally into me and will not harm me. Do you do it immediately no matter what, or do you think about what the consequences might be? I do it. I was told to call Saturday night and fell asleep before 9pm, and instead of punishing me, He realized I had fallen asleep and did not punish me. He knew how my day had gone on Sat by 5pm and what my dad on Sunday would be like. The consequences? Because of our relationship, I fear no consequences. Where is the line between where you wouldn't think about it at all, and where you would refuse? I stepped out of the other relationship emotionally and mentally, way after I had stopped trusting and obeying. He was not into me, I was his option and when I finally came to terms with it, it had been a good 9 months that I hadnt allowed him to harm me any further. Now? There is nothing I would refuse my Sir. Why? Because He has proved His honor and integrity to me. Have you talked it over with your owner, so that he or she will know ahead of time? Sexually ~ there are things He brings to the table and we discuss it/them. He allows me to say I am not ready yet. The gleem in my eye reflects I am ready. There are things I bring to the table that surprises Him...for example, the amount of nipple pain I could take. If there is NOT implicit trust, respect, open and sincere communication and honesty on both sides, the D will harm the s. Some submissives can be so eager to please and be obedient that they are foolish for some they do not have implicit trust in. It is almost like I had infatuated trust in my former dom rather than implicit trust. Sir's cumslut treasured property

SubinMaine -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 9:19:12 AM)
Very well said Shyinini smile

subitodolce -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 10:21:39 AM)
I have been blessed with a wonderful Dom who fears more for my safety than I do :-p I feel safe with him, because he is absolutely terrified that he will cause pain or physical damage. He constantly inquires into my comfort level and adjusts accordingly. In addition, intercourse is one of my hard limits, one that he greatly respects and will not push for. We both know the risks, even if we were to take every possible precaution, and we certainly don't wish to tempt the Fates....and neither of us are in a life situation to be able to work around an "oops". As I joke with him, that "oops" would likely be two (as twins skip generations in my family, and my generation is due up for a set), and they would probably be "just like me"...he says the potential of having two more of me has scared away any desire to have intercourse with me until after marriage (if it is in our future). ;-)

santalia -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 10:24:20 AM)
Greetings This is an interesting topic, and one that should generate a great deal of thought from those of us who are in service to a Dominant. For me, i have thought a few times whether i was blindly following my Master's will or whether i had really submitted to Him. The answer has always been the same, no matter when it has been during our relationship. i have submitted to Him. i trust Him to do right by His property, and not to put her in a situation where she might be harmed. If i did not trust Him, how could i be His? That is the bottom line, i think. Trusting Him to do what He knows to be right, in every situation He might put His santalia in. i wish you well. -santalia{JR}

angelicslaveMDF -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 10:28:07 AM)
smiles i am glad someone pointed this out...there is a difference between blind following and complete submission...and i agree with most of the posts before me....but every case is different....i think things like self-esteem, trust level, commitment level, honesty all come into play with a Master/slave relationship. (I only use Master/slave because that is what i know of)... Master would never put me in a place where i am in danger of something that would harm me long term...or short term...W/we have total honesty about anything and everything...and i trust Him with that....but being that i am a slave...i have freedom in the fact that i freely give to Him all of me...but in as much as i give...if i ever felt that anything was going to be harmful or dangerous to myself...i have to make that choice to take that freedom back...everyday that i wake up in the morning and call Him Master....i am giving that freedom away once again...and giving of myself to Him...Master does at times push my limits....BUT!!!!....ONLY if He knows that i might be open to it...by conversation...feelings...or my actions to such....and just as much as if He did try something and saw ONE discomfort or fear on my face...He would cease to do such. i do know of girls who are so down on themselves that yes...they would do anything...not only for their need to please...but also for their need of acceptance, from that Master/Dom....and that they would do "anything and everything" to please their Masters/Doms because they think this is how it should be. Master and i do try to talk to others...and teach what W/we have learned and what W/we continue to learn so that the newer people that do come in that have ideas that may be askewed a bit...W/we try to show them why our way works for Us...thats the one thing of this lifestyle...it is ever growing and ever increasing...but for the most part it is ever learning because people adapt things to fit their lifestyle, their needs, their wants and their abilities.

MagiksSlave -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 11:55:57 AM)
I dont and never will follow blindly, however I have total faith that Master will never tell me to do something that would hurt me... If me and Master where on a bridge and he tells me to jump, I know that for a fact what ever is on the bridge would be far more dangerouse to me then the fall from the jump, I trust him that this would be the case. And that is what it boils down to trust!! Magik's slave

littleone35 -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 12:34:49 PM)
I would do whtever Mastes askes of me because i know he would not ask me to do anything that would harm me or go past my hard limits. Trust in your Master and using your brains if he goes off the deep end and askes you to do something that would harm you. Basically it comes down to how much to you trust your Master. Matt's littleone

Celeste43 -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 12:41:43 PM)
Thankfully he knows he isn't perfect either so part of my job is to point out things he may have missed. In a case of doing something that would be physically detrimental, I know that if I showed him what he missed he would change the order. Because he really does want the best for me. For us this is no more than me proof reading letters to clients and double checking that everything he said he wanted to address in the letter was actually in there.

slaveish -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 1:28:56 PM)
Blind faith can be a very bad thing. If one's Master or Sir gave a command for his girl to have unprotected sex, it's just fine to trust him (one hopes ... but when you're as old as I am you look back at your life and think "WTF? Why did I ~trust~ him??") ... but who's to say that the person he orders his girl to have sex with is just as noble? I know of three men who are HIV+ and do not disclose this fact to lovers. Hello heck no I would not have unprotected sex with ANYONE, regardless of who gave the order.

twistedkytten -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 3:23:53 PM)
I have always thought, if one chooses their mate wisely, there wouldn't be a need to worry about such things. However if ever a situation presented a direct danger to my being my responsibility first and foremost is to myself. I have no limits with Master, because He simply does not find interest in the things that I might find myself red-flagging with anyone else. Now that in no way implies that there aren't things that Master does in fact find highly enjoyable that I do not, or that frighten me to no end, but do I comply? absolutely! because I know .. Master can fix whatever He might break.. kytten

slaveluci -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 4:38:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisstressNboytoy is it truly ever all right to stop thinking of your own well-being in order to please your owner? I would say that, for me personally, the answer to that is "yes." As I have an Owner who seems to look out more for my well-being than even I do at times, I can definitely say that as long as I obey and please Him, I don't have to worry about looking out for my own well-being as He is already doing such a vigilant job of that. quote: I'm sure a lot of subs believe that their owners have all of their best interests in mind. Maybe they do. I can say that, without a doubt, my Owner does. He's made that clear by everything He's ever done during our relationship. And, honestly, by what He hasn't done - anything truly harmful or damaging to me (either emotionally/mentally/physically). quote: somehow it would be a big turn off if I thought he would run out in front of bus because I said so. [:D]....I think Master would probably agree with you there, too. He expects utter obedience, yes, but He knows that He would never ask me to obey an order that would result in real harm or damage to me. If He issued such an order, it would be a clue to me...a BIG clue....that He wasn't in His usual right, sound mind and He wouldn't expect me to obey it. The most important rule of all (besides obeying Him) is that I protect His most cherished and valued possession - me. If I were to throw myself in front of a bus or some such harmful thing, I would be breaking one of the cardinal rules He's established. quote: (Which is basically the same as having unprotected sex.) Now, I'm not sure either of us would totally agree with you there. Jumping in front of a bus is a pretty sure bet that serious harm/death will result. Unprotected sex is more of a crapshoot[;)]. It could be harmful but not necessarily. quote: So, when your master or mistress gives you an order, what is the thought process that goes through your mind? Do you do it immediately no matter what, or do you think about what the consequences might be? As I stated above, I'd feel safe saying that no matter what He orders, I'd just go ahead and do it without questioning. This is only because of the absolute trust I have in Him that He will never order me to do something damaging. quote: Where is the line between where you wouldn't think about it at all, and where you would refuse? Also as stated above....I would only ever question/refuse if the order was obviously something dangerous which I know He would never order me to do if He was in His usual sound mind. He has told me as much. The only other exception would be if He ordered me to do one of the very few hard limits that we have agreed upon and established. He has made it known that He will never push those. So, if He did, I'd know He wasn't thinking clearly. Again, He has stated as much Himself. quote: Have you talked it over with your owner, so that he or she will know ahead of time? Absolutely! It's all been cleared up................slave luci

kyraofMists -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 5:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisstressNboytoySo, when your master or mistress gives you an order, what is the thought process that goes through your mind? Do you do it immediately no matter what, or do you think about what the consequences might be? Where is the line between where you wouldn't think about it at all, and where you would refuse? Have you talked it over with your owner, so that he or she will know ahead of time? When I am given an instruction my first priority is to know what, when, where and how that instruction is to be carried out. That is my first concern, and if I am not able to answer those four questions then I ask for clarification from him. Considering the consequences is a secondary concern and many times I do not think about them. The times that I do may be if I think what he wants might harm me or if I see a potential conflict with my inherent responsibilities, a previous instruction or something that he has said he wants. At those times I will ask permission to ask questions or given an opinion or information. If permission is given then I will talk about it with him. Sometimes it results in him changing his decision and other times it doesn't. He makes the decisions that best serve our family. Many times he gets blind obedience from me; it doesn't take much thought to respond to "get me a glass a water". Even now with the financial matters, he gets blind obedience from me. I would not question why he would want to do something. I would only ask questions to gain clarification so that I can carry out his orders and meet his expectations. If I refuse a direct order then I have removed my consent to be his slave and the M/s relationship no longer exists. Refusing an order is not something that crosses my mind. Knight's Kyra

MisstressNboytoy -> RE: Complete submission or blind following? (6/26/2007 6:02:37 PM)
A lot of people wrote that they trust their master completely and know that he or she would never do anything to harm them, which hopefully is the opinion of every submissive or slave here because otherwise, as stated above by many, you shouldn't be in the relationship. Is still think, however, that no matter how much you trust someone, you can't follow every order without consideration for the consequences. I don't think that this approach and complete trust are mutually exclusive...it just means you are watching out for yourself (which is a still good idea even if you are certain your master is already doing so). I really appreciate all of the thought that people put into their responses to this question. There are some things that I don't agree with, but I understand the other point of view much better now. And slaveluci...it was a metaphorical bus that sometimes swerves out of the way. [:D]

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