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Faults - 6/11/2005 9:40:21 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		It seems alot of the time that alot of people dont realise, that we all have faults. When it comes to dealing with other people, its not up to anyone to judge other peoples faults. As we ALL have faults. In relationships, its about whether their good points outweigh their faults. And if you are able to handle the faults of the other person. This day and age, i think it is more important to learn about the "negative" side of your companions then it is the postive side. As generally the positive side, is a no brainer on whether you can handle it or not. But the negative side is what will make or break the relationship. Be it frienship or intimacy. Its unfortunate, because everyone is always into putting their best foot forward and hiding that 3rd foot. When the best foot goes forward its not until later that you realise that So and so is like this and you cant deal with that. See, no one is perfect. There is no knight in shining armour. The best we can do in this world is find some one perfect for "you". Which is why no matter how much i disagree with some one, i dont judge them. Because we all have faults. No one is better then anyone else in this respect.

To me, i prefer to have the whole picture of a person. Faults included. They are just little pieces of a puzzle. As well, faults are subjective. Whats a "fault" to me, might not be to you and vise a versa. So then again, its all about what you can deal with, so i restate its best to get to know that 3rd foot before anything progresses.

Personally, i'd rather get to know the "monster" inside of people before i worry about whether or not i'll trust them. As its the monster inside that will make or break the relationship. (yes we all have alittle bit of evil in us)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 10:15:51 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I agree that no one is perfect, and we all have our quirks, but it is my place to judge others "faults" as either being acceptable or unacceptable in terms of whether I can be in a relationship with them or not.

I can say "That's who you are, I accept this is who you are" AND say "Your faults make it impossible for me to be with you"

As well, it is absolutely the Owners place to alter and improve upon what he considers my faults.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 10:26:20 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Emerald i've noticed you are always to hit up my posts first = ) Cheers mate. i suppose are you are right, it is for us to judge whether we can deal with those faults, but it is not for us to judge said faults. (least we be judged) i was actually trying to go for something abit more indepth, and abit better told, but for some reason, i was having a hard time articulating what i was trying to say = )

quote:

I can say "That's who you are, I accept this is who you are" AND say "Your faults make it impossible for me to be with you"


LOLOLOL though it also comes down to weighing things out. Which i tend to do as well. Does there "good" outweigh their "bad" for me? Obviously a man that hits (in anger of course), the bad out weighs the good.

quote:

As well, it is absolutely the Owners place to alter and improve upon what he considers my faults.


Now, do you think its your place to help improve upon you're Owners faults? Do you think its a two way street? Do you think that not only (obviously) its a service to him to improve upon the faults he sees, that its also a service to you and that you should be servicing him in the same fashion? i mean, its almost a favor to you, and shouldnt you return the favor? i for one think that as some one that loves Master, its my place to help him improve in this world, to help him get farther (in away it is servicing him), that him improving my faults is also a service firstly to him and as well me. And that i should also return the favor. i think that its a two way street in a relationship that those that care for each other do (aside from D/s)

Really, i think its all a multi complex answer = )

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 10:38:31 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Its unfortunate, because everyone is always into putting their best foot forward and hiding that 3rd foot.


Hmm seems like a lot of guys put their "third foot" forward first.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 10:58:41 AM   
sanita


Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		i agree with you, RiotGirl.

if someone shows no faults, and never seems to be phased, it worries me. if i dated someone and i have never seen them get upset, or even a bit ruffled, i didn't date them for long. i would not want to be around when that person's monster decided it was time to burst out.

of course, i want Someone who can keep control... but seriously, without knowing the challenges, flaws, and adversities someone deals with, how can we determine their ability to control themselves? i admire a Dom/me that remains in control when they are upset or hurt, more than one who never seems upset or hurt.

informed consent comes with knowing what is possible... and that includes knowing the nature of the beast within.

in my opinion, it is a little delusional to think there is actually an ideal person with no faults. if someone is perfect, then what in the heck are they doing on earth? perfection cannot last long around human nature.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:01:41 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
I agree that no one is perfect, and we all have our quirks, but it is my place to judge others "faults" as either being acceptable or unacceptable in terms of whether I can be in a relationship with them or not. I can say "That's who you are, I accept this is who you are" AND say "Your faults make it impossible for me to be with you

I like this a lot... I feel that there are characteristics that I value a great deal, and if a person is lacking all of those qualities, than they are not the right type of relationships I can be in (and I mean friendships as well). I can be civil to ANYONE as long as he/she is being civil to me.. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:03:54 AM   
sanita


Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Now, do you think its your place to help improve upon you're Owners faults? Do you think its a two way street? Do you think that not only (obviously) its a service to him to improve upon the faults he sees, that its also a service to you and that you should be servicing him in the same fashion? i mean, its almost a favor to you, and shouldnt you return the favor? i for one think that as some one that loves Master, its my place to help him improve in this world, to help him get farther (in away it is servicing him), that him improving my faults is also a service firstly to him and as well me. And that i should also return the favor. i think that its a two way street in a relationship that those that care for each other do (aside from D/s)


*lol* what a wonderful question! if i may poke in, i do seem to remember a post Emerald made about being the Owner's (very much needed) fashion consultant. is this correct, Emerald?

Hmmmmmmmm, but is it wise to call them "faults" in this case? or just "flaws with improvement potential?"


_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:19:05 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i agree sanita and it goes along hand in hand. i for one HAS been suprised by others monsters. So its something that has become important to me over time. Monsters are not specifically about faults, but are a deeper level in people. They are almost two seperate entities in a human being for me. Monsters or the beast with in are evil (faults arent). Personally i'd prefer to see some one lose control, before i trust them. So i can assess excatly how they lose control, what extent they go to, and what they are "capable" of when their control is lost. i want to know how they handle their beast.

Though on the flip side, i also want some one who can control it. Like you said. How do they react when upset. Though it is all about controlling the beast. As i do know it is in everyone. i do gauge alot of my trust on how well they control their beast.

The beast goes like this for me (for those who have no clue what i'm thinking about) i can sum it up with an experience. i once dated a man who hated violence. Good man, loved me alot. Never lied, was honest, worked hard, was responsible. He's a great man. Plain and simple. One early morning (he was still intoxicated) he woke up and i woke up after him. He couldnt FIND something. And SWORE that i had done something. Being engaged, living with this man and committed to him for months (with absolutely zero issues). The beast came out. He swung and connected a couple of times to my face, backed me into a corner and proceeded to tell me nobody would find me. Among other things. Though i refuse to remember much about it, it was pretty disturbing to have trusted some one utterly and completely (and with good reason) and then have their "beast" come out. He flipped, went sideways, did a round about turn, whatever. (needless to say, it had been my first serious relationship and i've been scarred ever since, some one pat me on the head and throw a pity party LOLOL)

The beast is a monster inside of you that does harm. Who, what and how will it harm though? Though faults are different, but the same as they are all part of the same negative energy. Faults are just part of the make up of a person. As people to me are millions of pieces to a puzzle. To get to know the person, you have to know all those pieces. whether they be good or bad. And until all those pieces are known, you dont really know if they are compatible. Because generally speaking the "good" is usually an easy fit to be compatible.

<side note> Woo hoo for me in provoking people to lose their control so i can sit and analyze their monsters!

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:23:28 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

*lol* what a wonderful question! if i may poke in, i do seem to remember a post Emerald made about being the Owner's (very much needed) fashion consultant. is this correct, Emerald?

Hmmmmmmmm, but is it wise to call them "faults" in this case? or just "flaws with improvement potential?"


sure poke away! i love to get everyones opionons! do you think its a two way street and all that, that i asked emerald? Does anyone else think its a two way street to help improve your s/o in all the d/s and vanilla components? LOL we could be nice and just call it "flaws for improvement potential" or "improvement areas" As i'm sure if we get down to the nitty gritty of the word "faults"it wouldnt all add up, but being that one of my faults is the tendency to be lazy and the world FAULT has less letters in it then (copies and pastes) flaws with improvement potential, i'm gonna stick with faults. LOL Everyone will just have to know i mean it in the same postive light as that big long thingy you wrote out

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:28:40 AM   
MemphisDsCouple


Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline 		This approach is sooooooo much more realistic than the approach I read so often, namely, that a dominant is supposed to show his/her ability and/or worthiness to exercise control over a submissive by his/her perfect self control.

_____________________________

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:30:52 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

This approach is sooooooo much more realistic than the approach I read so often, namely, that a dominant is supposed to show his/her ability and/or worthiness to exercise control over a submissive by his/her perfect self control.


hiya! Being that no one is perfect, or perfect in everything they do, they'd be complete liars now wouldnt they?

(in reply to MemphisDsCouple)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 11:47:03 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		This is an interesting question, riot girl. I would say to tread softly. In em's case, she is assisting her Master with fashion, as opposed to telling him He slurps His soup or leaves the toilet seat up. you are the only one who will know your Master and His quirks the best. If there are things that are like "fingernails on a chalkboard" for you, then you should probably take that into consideration, before you move-in. I agree that sometimes W/we don't know as much as W/we would like to prior to actually living together. But hopefully, you know enough.
He is your Master. So His way goes. If He is open to certain things, that is fine. But if you harp on little things that annoy you, and these are habits he has had that are not horribly socially unacceptable, He may not be quite so receptive.
In the end, it depends on Y/your personal relationship, and how much and what He is willing to accept in the way of advice. It really comes down to what you consider important and/or unacceptable behavior to you, and whether or not you can deal with it.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 6/11/2005 11:48:22 AM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 12:10:30 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Now, do you think its your place to help improve upon you're Owners faults? Do you think its a two way street?

It's my place to make the Owner's life easier but it's not at all a two-way street. We absolutely live a double standard life.

quote:

Do you think that not only (obviously) its a service to him to improve upon the faults he sees, that its also a service to you and that you should be servicing him in the same fashion?


I am usually free to point things out that I think could help, and am definitely encouraged to assist as I can, but it's his judgement to follow it or not. For me, it's not my judgement to follow or not.

quote:

i mean, its almost a favor to you, and shouldnt you return the favor?

It's not a favor, it's training, it's cultivating, when it comes to the Owner at least.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 12:11:49 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanita
*lol* what a wonderful question! if i may poke in, i do seem to remember a post Emerald made about being the Owner's (very much needed) fashion consultant. is this correct, Emerald?

Not at all needed, after all he enjoyed Hugo Boss suits long before I ever entered his life. But he definitely desires and appreciates my input on that level.

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 12:36:49 PM   
darlingjade


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		My take on this has always been that a certain kind of person attracts me as a lover/Dom/friend or whatever. The trick is to find those whose faults and weaknesses I can tolerate and accept. Of course, the rest of that equation is having the other person be able to do the same for me.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 12:58:00 PM   
asissyforher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: iowa now..maybe move soon.
Status: offline 		what you say is true..nothing human is without flaw......BUT!


far far too many dommes/mistress'/goddess' feel they are above all others and are without fault.------so they choose not to accept any males with the slightest hint of frailties....

then there are the-- real life dominants --that accept you as you are.....because they know you are going to find all their faults inside the first 24 hours.....

thanks a sissy


_____________________________

"still looking for a real life domme..no more plastic wannabes for me"

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 1:02:29 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Thanks for the concern GDG (abbr as i'm not sure which word out of the whole thing, if not the whole thing, you'd like me to call you) But i can safely say, i have wormed in and wormed my way around to where i do know his faults. Prolly not every last one of them, but enough to safely say i can accept them = ) They are all acceptable and they are all with in my reach of being capable to deal with them. = ) Realising all of this, is what brought me to the post. Though its always been true (though of course in progress as knowledge is a progressive thing), it just struck me.

quote:

It's my place to make the Owner's life easier but it's not at all a two-way street. We absolutely live a double standard life.


i agree it is a double edge sword. But what does it specifically encumber? There are the obvious, rights and so on. the obvious roles, but what else does it encumber. Does it also entail helping your s/o improve? (which obviously no one can improve they do not deem needed to improve and obviously its not something you demand our Tops to improve)

quote:

It's not a favor, it's training, it's cultivating, when it comes to the Owner at least.


Thats in the D/s way of things. What about in the vanilla way of things? It is obviously training to their standard that betters yourself for them and you. But what about the roll over of it into the vanilla world? It is almost a favor (though favor may be a bad word) to be improved in things outside of the dominants. Dominants are "helping" us in more ways then one. Like i said, being almost as a service to us (though more importantly a service to them) Though if it is a service to us (that over all good of it all), shouldnt we in return service them in the same way?

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 1:10:04 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

what you say is true..nothing human is without flaw......


thats because i'm always right <grives a bratty little grin>

quote:

they are above all others


which is impossible, as no one is above another when it comes to each of us having our own set of faults. Unless of course you believe in the Son of God, he's above all others = ) (and if you dont, its the concept) Being the fact that we ALL have faults, a general array of faults, no one can possibly be better then another. As they have faults. (people in glass houses) which of course i re state again, the "depth" or "badness" of a fault is all subjective as well.

quote:

are without fault


that would make them liars and inhuman. Being so, you really wouldnt want much to do with them. Unless of course, those are two faults that are not in your top ten = )

quote:

find all their faults inside the first 24 hours


that is also impossible. One of the things i have noticed about people, is alot of them dont even realise some of their faults. Because as people, we can not view ourselves as a 3rd party. We can not sit back and look at how we act, or talk or walk or whatever. Assuming i am right again, they cant assume you are going to know something they dont even know. On top of that, it can take a variety of settings, experiences, and situations to be able to view a person completely

(in reply to asissyforher)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 4:48:54 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Thanks for the concern GDG (abbr as i'm not sure which word out of the whole thing, if not the whole thing, you'd like me to call you) But i can safely say, i have wormed in and wormed my way around to where i do know his faults. Prolly not every last one of them, but enough to safely say i can accept them = ) They are all acceptable and they are all with in my reach of being capable to deal with them. = ) Realising all of this, is what brought me to the post. Though its always been true (though of course in progress as knowledge is a progressive thing), it just struck me.

quote:

It's my place to make the Owner's life easier but it's not at all a two-way street. We absolutely live a double standard life.


i agree it is a double edge sword. But what does it specifically encumber? There are the obvious, rights and so on. the obvious roles, but what else does it encumber. Does it also entail helping your s/o improve? (which obviously no one can improve they do not deem needed to improve and obviously its not something you demand our Tops to improve)

quote:

It's not a favor, it's training, it's cultivating, when it comes to the Owner at least.


Thats in the D/s way of things. What about in the vanilla way of things? It is obviously training to their standard that betters yourself for them and you. But what about the roll over of it into the vanilla world? It is almost a favor (though favor may be a bad word) to be improved in things outside of the dominants. Dominants are "helping" us in more ways then one. Like i said, being almost as a service to us (though more importantly a service to them) Though if it is a service to us (that over all good of it all), shouldnt we in return service them in the same way?


The rights you have are only the rights your Owner may choose to permit. That is something you should make sure is worked out beforehand.
Don't confuse the D/s of things with vanilla. The D/s is the current that runs through everything. It is not a role when you are at home, or when you decide it suits you. Again, this is something you have to work out with your Owner. If He wants you to act vanilla, and switch gears all the time, that is fine. But most do not. They expect a certain demeanor all the time, and the ability to react properly in vanilla situations so that your lifestyle may remain private, but you are still in D/s mode.
Don't think that if you go to the mall or grocery store, you can suddenly revert to teasing or mouthing off, just because you are out in public. I would be surprised if you didn't get a very fine punishment for that.
But again, it is up to your Mastern and you will agree or not agree, upfront, in the beginning. I have some concerns that you are not sure at all how this is supposed to work or what you should expect. I know you asked another question about 24/7 on another thread. It may be time to have a serious talk with your Master and make sure you have covered all the bases. And a contract is usually a good thing, IMO.
I am DustyGold, Goddess, GoddessDustyGold, or just plain Dusty on the message boards. GDG is fine too. And I have used those intiials on occasion on other boards.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 6/11/2005 4:50:57 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Faults - 6/11/2005 6:45:05 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

The rights you have are only the rights your Owner may choose to permit. That is something you should make sure is worked out beforehand.
Don't confuse the D/s of things with vanilla. The D/s is the current that runs through everything. It is not a role when you are at home, or when you decide it suits you. Again, this is something you have to work out with your Owner. If He wants you to act vanilla, and switch gears all the time, that is fine. But most do not. They expect a certain demeanor all the time, and the ability to react properly in vanilla situations so that your lifestyle may remain private, but you are still in D/s mode.
Don't think that if you go to the mall or grocery store, you can suddenly revert to teasing or mouthing off, just because you are out in public. I would be surprised if you didn't get a very fine punishment for that.
But again, it is up to your Mastern and you will agree or not agree, upfront, in the beginning. I have some concerns that you are not sure at all how this is supposed to work or what you should expect. I know you asked another question about 24/7 on another thread. It may be time to have a serious talk with your Master and make sure you have covered all the bases. And a contract is usually a good thing, IMO.
I am DustyGold, Goddess, GoddessDustyGold, or just plain Dusty on the message boards. GDG is fine too. And I have used those intiials on occasion on other boards.


hi Dusty You do make good points and i'm sure it is good for others to hear it, but it is not a concern you should have for me. Though once again i appreciate your concern. = ) The D/s and vanilla are not confused for me. It was something early on that i did get confused. i am not confusing the two now, yet overlapping the two, as to me they are diverse, yet the same. You are right its not a role, it is what our relationship is based on.

i do also know how its supposed to all "work" i have plenty of my own ideas, most of them re inforced by Master, and then more of my own ideas that just rattle around in my head. All i am doing here, is thinking out loud. Looking for more opionons to re inforce my ideas or to debunk them. i'm not looking for answers, just re inforcement i suppose. To see if others agree or not to agree, cos even though i always joke about "always being right" i know it is far from the truth. As i have my own issues that cloud my thinking sometimes. Half the reason i was asking about 24/7 was because Master mentioned i do so when we first started talking about living together, so there wouldnt be any suprises. As it is about to happen, i thought it might be a good idea. The other half, was i was abit nervous, because as always, he is silent in his thoughts, so i can only imagine <grins> What he has up his sleeve. (if anything at all) So i was trying to get a better grasp on things. Looking to re inforce the grasp i already have. i usually before i open my mouth and ask a question already have a cemented idea of things. Alot of the times i ask because i want to check and make sure i am not "missing" anything. i already have my answers.

For the thread on 24/7, i've already got a pretty darn good idea of how its going to go. i've already got the basics down, i know what its like when we are together, so i expect it will be more of the same. i expect it to be more indepth. i expect it will be "complete" training as it will be more possible now. i say complete, because being so far away, there is only so much one can do or learn in a short period of time.

As for this thread. i thought i pretty well stated what i thought, in a clear concise manner. Maybe its too much ramblings and musings thrown together? Okay, from the top. i believe everyone has their own unique set of faults. No one is perfect and no one is better then anyone else. i believe it is wise to find out what another's faults are before commiting oneself, because it is the "faults" of each other that will make or break the relationship. As the "good" is generally a pretty easy thing to get along with. i believe when it comes to relationships, its all about what you can and can not deal with.

Second topic. The questions i asked Emerald. And yes i already had a belief and was curious to hers. i believe that it is our duty (duty is a terrible word, but for lack of better) as submissives and s/o's to help our Doms improve. Because it also services them in their world. i believe our Tops do help us, vanilla wise, by improving us to their ideals. Example : Quitting smoking. That is something that could please a Master, but also helps the slave outside of the Master. Therefore i think its one in the same. Our Doms help us D/s and vanilla. Though it doesnt matter which world the improvement touches on or even if both, they are still helping us. As people who love, and subs that serve ~ shouldnt we also help them improve? i think we should. Like i also said, there are alot of faults we as people can not see about ourselves. Isnt it a service to point out the things our Doms can not see about themselves? i think it is.





< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 6/11/2005 6:49:56 PM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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