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RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 7:11:11 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
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This question pops up at least once a week, and like Rover said I hate wading into this morass yet again. Yet here I am again as well.

Why? Because I think that, as a community (and yeah, I know there are those of you who don't believe in any community; just go with me here for a minute, okay?), as a community I believe we do have a responsibility to come up with some sort of answer for people like Onyx, who are new and curious.

The problem, as always presented, is the terms slave and sub have different meanings for everyone. We end up with endless posts about "what the words mean to me". As Blade properly said "Both terms mean whatever is negotiated between the person(s) submitting and the person(s) who is accorded power." While this is true, it is not helpful to newbies struggling to get a feel for where they stand.

The solution I propose is this. Given that the words have a sliding scale when it comes to their meaning, does that mean there cannot be a generic, basic definition?

slaveofKaos is heading in the right direction, I think. "....a submissive is someone who chooses when he or she will submit, and what they are and arent willing to submit to. A slave does not choose when they'll submit or to what degree they'll submit."

This seems to me to be a very fair answer for a generic definition, as long as we DO add that it is no more than that. A way for a newbie to distinguish the terms in the most basic way, until they gain more experience and begin to see that the terms are, in reality, not solid colors, but constantly varying shades of different hues.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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Post #: 21

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 7:13:37 AM

sweetnurseBBW

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Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
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I try to avoid these threads because it always turns into a war. The definitions are whatever someone wants them to be for both. What our definition is may not be the same for someone else. The differences and definitions are whatever you define them as. Nothing is set in stone and one definition or label does not work for everyone. Discover which one ones work for you and go from there. There are many stereotypes for both that some people think is a concrete definition for both. That isn't true. Nothing in this lifestyle only works one way for every person.

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(in reply to OnyxDelphi)

Post #: 22

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 7:16:24 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Take your pick

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

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Post #: 23

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 7:51:40 AM

MasterMataeo

Posts: 215
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline

as for my personal definitions

bottom = one who liks to enjoy being taken but yet has limits that never tried and pushed unless mutualy agreed apon and to
              what point they should be tested
Submisive = one whom enjoys being controlled to a certin extent with some limits that have been discussed prior and accepts
                   the Dom/Domme's ability to push those limits to the edge of the breaking point if not further at the
                   Dom/Domme's discretion
Slave = One whom gives them selves over fully to a Master/Mistress with very little or no limits, for these are the ones that
           crave to be used for the others ultimite pleasure forsaking thier own desires save to be used as such, and thus the
           slaves desires are meet in serving as such,, ,

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 24

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 8:35:01 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

hard to pontificate on such subjective matters...but i think the general consensus is 42.

Damnit. I thought it was George Washington.

Master Fire

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Post #: 25

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 8:49:34 AM

GhitaAmati

Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline

Its seven...then asnwer is ALWAYS seven (passed a final exam for my degree that way once...not sure how)

I think, as alot of people here have mentioned, that the difference is how you and yours see yourself. If thats how you identify, then no one can tell you you are something else. But how do you know where you identify? Thats the trickier question. We all have to remember, that everyone, bottom sub slave alike, all CHOSE to submit, so we cant say that a slave is someone with no choices. Since what we all practice is consensual slavery (im hoping at least) even those who identify as a slave, chose to give up themselves to someone. A bottom, is generally agreed upon as a role someone plays in a scene. Someone who recieves whatevers happening in a scene, while a Top is the person giving. To me, a submissive is someone who defers to someone else's decisions, after voicing her own opinions. A slave doesnt voice her own opinions unless told to by her Master. And I may be alone in this, but I think all three can be both part time and full time roles, whatever works for you.

ghita amati

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 26

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:08:44 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

words are meant to connote (what they mean) different things....

I use to make a difference between friends, some are more acquantances...and the difference is what they mean to me, obviously my friends mean more to me than my acquantances.....

people can misuse (and do), words all the time....still, submissive connotes a psychological disposition, while slave, by definition, is not just psychological....its a state of being....

I don't think one is better than the other, and if you want to call yourself a submissive but want to do it 24/7 or be TPE, I don't see the problem, or if you want to be called a slave and have a master, but still have limits and smart enough to use a safe word when things are getting too much for you, I don't see a problem either.......

but if your going to think they mean the same things, its not quite accurate, they actually mean different things, there is a reason they are different words....

or you could take a page from Bill Clinton, and not even know what the word is is....and how can you not know how to use a word yet use it correctly in a sentence your saying you don't know what it "is"....

(in reply to GhitaAmati)

Post #: 27

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:25:20 AM

SFBaySwitch

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline

Not that I am necessarily completely understanding in the ways of BDSM, but in my internet travels on the subject I have found many differeing definitions. My common sense tells me that there should be a definite difference and, therefore, I tend to agree with slaveofKaos in that a slave should be someone with out any real limits (assuming that she and her Master are in agreement about what predetermined limits they both share; still giving power to Master, as he ultimately decides these limits).

< Message edited by SFBaySwitch -- 6/27/2007 11:35:10 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:35:30 AM

slaveofKaos

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

This is in responce to Rover

Well I have no limits except those my Master sets for me therefore I am a no limits slave and it's not in fantasy it's in a 24/7 real time relationship with him. I have played with subs and slaves and would say that there is most definatly a noticeable difference. I cannot go to my Master and say today I dont want any pain i'm not feeling good and just dont want it. I can go to him and say "Master i'm not feeling well", however if he still wants to whip me I have to take it. There is a big difference in that alone. However I do believe that both parties before becoming M/s or D/s express what it is there looking for and want, but that is before the relationship begins and a slave cant do anything after that except trust her master or ask for release a submissive can say "no".

Sorry about not quoteing properly im still somwhat new to posting. Thanks

< Message edited by slaveofKaos -- 6/27/2007 11:38:30 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:36:53 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos
Well I have no limits except those my Master sets for me therefore I am a no limits slave

Actually it makes you a mutual limits or "masters limits" slave.

But I won't go there.

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Post #: 30

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:48:16 AM

OnyxDelphi

Posts: 138
Joined: 5/30/2007
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And as usual you guys amaze me. Thank you so very much for clearing that up for me!!!

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Post #: 31

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 11:52:04 AM

bladedom

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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I think the fear is once you choose you can't change your mind, which of course is false.

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)

Post #: 32

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 2:50:00 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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Quite a while ago I heard this tongue in cheek definition, which still seems appropriate (and makes me laugh) from time to time.

"My girl is a slave, yours is a submissive."

John

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Post #: 33

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 4:21:22 PM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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2 letters

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Post #: 34

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 5:39:10 PM

nearnyccouple

Posts: 70
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline

First, Rover Long Time.... This is Ouroboros...

Second in response to this. Both are submissive. The definition is agreed upon by what the soul sings within the breast of all parties involved within the relationship. If you look at what the dictionary states more often than not our own personal definitions barely touch upon the words there.

Having said this, and perhaps as a surprise to most, within this lifestyle there are no such things as right or wrong answers/observations. The beauty of this lifestyle is the freedom to define it through mutual communication, trust and respect. A trilogy that my girl (who is self stated slave, and within my definition as well) and I follow and grow within daily.

James

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 35

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 6:10:39 PM

Masternslave07

Posts: 203
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline

I define the difference in the framework of a relationship. A slave's boundaries are set by her Master. A sub sets the boundaries in the relationship. They may be stretched but the sub still decides how much.
My slave knew what my boundaries were before she was collared. Once she was collared, my boundaries are now her boundaries. Not always to her liking.

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Post #: 36

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 6:27:44 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi

Curious.

The only absolute agreement your going to get is that they are spelled differently.. after that... well good luck

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 37

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 7:46:01 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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They used to explain the difference very clearly on Sesame Street:

S
LAVE
SLAVE

S
UB
SUB

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)

Post #: 38

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 8:14:23 PM

OnyxDelphi

Posts: 138
Joined: 5/30/2007
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lmao, ass.

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Post #: 39

RE: Whats the difference between a slave and a sub? - 6/27/2007 8:33:53 PM

Arpig

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AAAAAARRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

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Post #: 40

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