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RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/27/2007 10:15:32 PM

brightspot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Seeks, please note that she is educated and trained and working in her chosen field.
She is not sponging off of anyone or being a lazy burden on the taxpayer, and does volunteer work to improve society.

Yeah geeze!!! Almost, just as Stella's talking about, right in action here.

Missy.

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Post #: 21

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/27/2007 10:48:44 PM

Zensee

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FFS Seeks! What the hell do you suppose bricklayers do when they are done their day of laying bricks? They listen to music, watch plays, movies, TV, read books, look at paintings.... just like the rest of humanity does and has done since we started drawing animals on the walls of our frigging caves, telling stories and banging sticks together!

I've done and seen art that the taxpayer has "financed" and I will tell you that for every public dollar spent the artist added two of their own and a hundred more bucks in sweat equity. The public gets more bang for their buck from the arts that they do from barons' of industry.

Between you and Popeye, no thread is safe from hijack.

Stella, that's a complete bullshit rap and I agree with Philosophy that it is completely ilegal under EU law. They even have the right to revise history to expunge yopur presence - how Soviet of them. It would take an EU court five minutes to smack those bastards. Go for it.

Z.

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Post #: 22

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 12:23:38 AM

Masque66

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It's been my opinion that church and state can never truly be seperated. Not because it shouldn't be, I would love it if it was, but everyone in any position brings their personal convictions to it. It's simply not going to be possible to do so.

And please, must we have threats of violence on the boards in retaliation? Even in jest they give us a bad image. You just know some journalist somewhere is copying down your words should this issue become a public spectacle.

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 23

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 12:28:34 AM

Zensee

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Please tell me you aren't refering to my use of the word "smack" in my previous post.

Z.

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Post #: 24

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 12:34:54 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

The judge said that there was nothing in Polish law or the Polish Constitution against discriminating against someone for being a transsexual as it is a matter of 'sexual orientation'.

...surely this is subject to appeal. As a member of the EU Poland had to sign up to the European Charter of Human Rights which, as i understand, specifically disallows discrimination of grounds of sexual orientation. Good luck, and don't let the bastards grind you down.......

The Charter isn't a legal document unless a country specically writes it into their law which is why the British are grinding their tetth about it, Blair having it incorporated into British law. But then, there is the problem of interpretation, British jusges seem to have a problem of deporting terrorist suspects, the French don't and both have act under the same Charter conditions.

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Post #: 25

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 12:41:26 AM

imthatacheyouhav

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Oh good grief !The separation of church and state was meant to keep the "state" from running churches, so we could worship as we see fit...it was NOT intended to eradicate God at every turn...gee whiz....

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Post #: 26

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 3:42:12 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Just wondering...what hypocrisy and evil have been perpetrated for centuries in the name of separation of Church and State? I find it a little hard to believe that EVERY problem we have in society goes back to the separation of Church and State. So perhaps you might elaborate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

A simple guaranteed separation of Church and State should be sufficient, I think?

Sorry FB but I dont think so. I am so sick and tired of having the proclamations of this foreign cult imposed on all we do, of being looked at like some monster for not conforming and of the rank hypocrisy and downright evil it perpetrates and has perpetrated on us for centuries - every which way one looks, every problem we have in our societies goes back to the same origin. It needs wiping out with the same intolerance it has shown to people down the ages who didnt kiss their arses.

If you'll note what I wrote LaM, I never mentioned the Church or any denomination of the Church. The Church certainly is part of the problem, but only as a consequence of its basis in, as I described it, "this foreign cult". It is this foreign cult which is the source of societal problems - because quite simply it is unsuitable to all outside its culture of origin. The pain and suffering and death which its occupation of our culture has caused are far too many and far too obvious to list, and are explicable in terms of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Whilst some square pegs can round themselves off and slide neatly home, many cannot and it is the insistence of this foreign cult of its unique and sole veracity, combined with its forceful imposition on the populace wherever and whenever necessary, which makes it so dangerous. It is akin to and indeed the inspiration for the worst political excesses of 20th century Europe, and we didnt tolerate them in any way so how is it we can and do, not only tolerate the same from this foreign cult but seek to promote it as inspiration for our laws and social attitudes?

It is only and solely because of this foreign cult that we are regarded as perverted, deviant and/or mentally ill for wanting to maintain a membership on this site, let alone participate in the activities with which it is primarily concerned. It is this foreign cult that has embedded within our societies the notions that anything to do with sexual pleasure is in some way tainted with evil and thus deserving of condemnation. It is this foreign cult that has produced generation after generation of true sexual deviancy and mental illness by the active denial of our natures.

Now that is not to say that there isnt a valid path in this foreign cult, but it is by no means a path universally suitable for all. If it could acknowledge that and remove itself from the unhealthy influence it imposes on all and represent itself for what it is as a form of Judaism, and live in peace with the natural diversity of people in our societies as just another cult amongst many others which it accepts, I would have no problem with it. And the same goes for its cousin, Islam. Otherwise I will not tolerate intolerance, whatever its source. If I am able to accept others of all varieties and to accept that they are valid as they are, then why should some be permitted, by virtue of a foreign scripture be enabled to promote prejudice? On such grounds, neo-nazis could be said to be perfectly OK since they also rely on a foreign scripture to justify their position.

E

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Post #: 27

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 4:05:10 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

Oh good grief !The separation of church and state was meant to keep the "state" from running churches, so we could worship as we see fit...it was NOT intended to eradicate God at every turn...gee whiz....

I disagree.

It was to keep Religious Crazies from hijacking the State apparatus.

We *HAVE* a guaranteed separation, and look at the damage the religious fundamentalists did to the DOJ with their unlawful hiring practices, based on Religious Belief and Political Reliability over ability to perform duties.

And they needed to hide and cheat to do that.

*IF* the DOJ wasn't stacked with Political Whores and Religious Fundies SHE HIRED, she might have to worry about FPMITA Prison for a decade or two.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/28/2007 4:06:10 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 4:09:00 AM

aviinterra

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Meatcleaver, you are right about the Charter, and Poland has NOT written it into law, so it does not apply.

Poland is a conservative country where 85% of the population head on out to Church each and every Sunday. The Church is in their culture fully- wait, it IS their culture. With all of this grumbling about the Catholic Church, people here tend to forget that it was the main player in bringing Communism down in that country. Can't exactly blame the people for being adherrents now. I am all for equality, but frankly I don't think it will work everywhere, and neither should it be shoved down people's throats- that breeds hatred later on. So we have the liberal countries and we have the conservative ones, choose a conservative one if you are liberal and you can not be surprised that you get opposition.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 29

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 4:14:35 AM

aviinterra

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Sorry farglebargle, but I think imthatacheyouhav is correct. The people who settled this country came here seeking religious freedom- something that was denied to them by the STATE ( ie England ). The state itself is unimportant when looking at what this country was meant to be- according to the founders it should be nonintrusive, weak, and just there to protect against anarchy and to mount a military defensive. It is this thinking of freedom of religion that got you the endless amount of tiny "utopia" experiments out in the west, the endless interpretations of God's word, etc. Not until later did the thinking come about that the state needed protection from the church- and that came with a general social change that promoted equality and issues that most religions were not too comfy with.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 30

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 4:20:47 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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The Church is much more of a threat to Freedom and Liberty than ANY anarchists would ever be.

The Church was ALL FOR the rape and destruction of the extant population. They sure supported Cortez.

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Post #: 31

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 6:18:34 AM

caitlyn

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I'm very sorry that this happened to you.

These are the sorts of things that leave me shaking your head. Let go, for this reason, when all your work was mainstream ... the same people will probably push you into some alternative genre, and then insist that all "you alternative" lifestyle people can talk about, is sex and sexuality.

I can never make is past these issues ...

The Left - we detest war and dying, but have no problem killing millions of unborn babies.

The Right - we detest abortion, because all like is important, but have no problem treating anyone with sexual differences as if they were a houseplant.

I think I hijacked ... my apologies ... and again, I hope things work out well for you Stella.

(in reply to stella40)

Post #: 32

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 6:45:29 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Poland is starting to sound very creepy. Why would you want to work there even if you could win an appeal? From everything I've read lately, most Poles seem to yearn for the good old Nazi years when fags and Jews were rounded up and gassed.

Sad thing is, Poland was always creepy; I blame the Vatican and the weather :-(

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Post #: 33

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 6:54:30 AM

seeksfemslave

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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee
FFS Seeks! What the hell do you suppose bricklayers do when they are done their day of laying bricks? They listen to music, watch plays, movies, TV, read books, look at paintings.... just like the rest of humanity does and has done since we started drawing animals on the walls of our frigging caves, telling stories and banging sticks together!
I've done and seen art that the taxpayer has "financed" and I will tell you that for every public dollar spent the artist added two of their own and a hundred more bucks in sweat equity. The public gets more bang for their buck from the arts that they do from barons' of industry.
Between you and Popeye, no thread is safe from hijack.
Z.

The main reason that art, certainly in the UK, quite literally receives millions if not hundreds of millions of pounds of subsidy is that it has NO universal appeal. If it did people would pay to "see" it and it would be self sufficient.
Contrats a sold out Mozart concert with a subsidised performance of Waiting for Godot. gettit ?
How hard any given artist may work is a total irrelevance.
The reaon that Stella allegedly lost her case is also irrelevant to my point, which you construe as a hijack.

MrZ if you buy my ticket I will happily visit the US and spend a pleasant 10 secs perusing the meaningless spots and daubs of Jackson Pollack's work. I believe a permenant museum of his output exists somewhere NO?
Then I will buy a burger return to London and take a peek at that shark pickled in brine or something or other.
Feeling refreshed I will then return to CM and send you a note of thanks for helping expand my mental horizons.

Very few bricklayers "watch" subsidised art. IMO

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 6/28/2007 6:57:36 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 7:19:03 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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aww seeks -
does this mean you will never ever pose for one of my artworks or photography sessions? That's it - my fantasy is ruined....

Peace
the.dark.

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Post #: 35

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 7:24:12 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

The Left - we detest war and dying, but have no problem killing millions of unborn babies.

The Right - we detest abortion, because all like is important, but have no problem treating anyone with sexual differences as if they were a houseplant.

I think this should be amended to be...

The Right - we detest abortion, but after you are born we dont give a rats ass whether you live or die.

Sinergy

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(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 36

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 7:33:29 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I agree Seeks - much of modern art has no universal appeal. But then does anything? Even sex and chocolate have their detractors.

Just because I think a pickled shark or an unmade bed (et al) is absolute claptrap doesnt mean that someone else doesnt appreciate it - usually to be fair a small minority, but they must like it going by the prices they pay. And thats perfectly OK if the stupour-rich wish to shell out thousands for this stuff, daft but OK. They could have had my unmade bed for half the price, though I'm fresh out of sharks unfortunately.

But, we have to look at this unachievable notion of universal appeal too. Appealing to lowest common denominator is what has made our TV and films so banal, and is what keeps good literature and music out of the market - take a look at the top ten in either genre; absolute rubbish relying on titillation above substance. I'm against handing out money to artists etc too, but if thats the only mechanism available by which we can bypass the corporate checkpoint and even if some gets wasted, then maybe its what we have to do in order for some of the better stuff to get through?

E

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Post #: 37

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 7:40:19 AM

dragone

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Hi; ...Appealing to the lowest common denominator... Are you daft woman? What is out there, is high culture, pure ART......have you been to Las Vegas, NV lately? Stupor-rich....how dare you 'high brow', the likes of...oh, arnuld. You, you, ...girlie boy.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 38

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 7:56:27 AM

dragone

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Status: offline

HEY SINERGY...Hold on there; I strongly disagree with you, we have, the most advanced, best educated, highest grade technological health program in the world. If you can't pay...then die.
The American health program....don't get sick.

And don't forget either...this Bush war, has spent into the trillions of dollars, so much money spent, that some economists say, it has exceeded rational calculation; and just look around you, and see what we have. Our country is better for it, we are protected for terrorist attack, our children are safe, our freedoms are flourishing, business is thriving, people are enjoying more leisure time activities, more opportunities to fulfill your destinies. How dare you, make such implications.

And in Buri Dubai; one building is costing 80 billion, or is it 800 billion dollars to construct, okay, only 5% of oil revenues is paying for it (year right). Corporations care, the world leaders care, they are working, yes WORKING, for our good.....and don't you forget it.

You certainly have some 'salt'.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 39

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. - 6/28/2007 8:05:24 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Hi; ...Appealing to the lowest common denominator... Are you daft woman? What is out there, is high culture, pure ART......have you been to Las Vegas, NV lately? Stupor-rich....how dare you 'high brow', the likes of...oh, arnuld. You, you, ...girlie boy.

Girle boy? Are you still that pissed at me?

Honestly, I told you - I'm not going to FedEx you my worn panties whatever you pay, OK? Just think what your boyfriend would say?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 40

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