RE: using me?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: using me?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: using me?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: using me? - 6/12/2005 1:37:48 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet80525
one still has questions, though. When a slave accepts her Master's collar, she commits for life, giving up all rights, all choices. So how can a slave choose to leave, choose to end the relationship, just because things have turned bad? And what happens if the Master will not release her? one's Master has said that He will never release her. What kind of Master or Mistress would want a slave who has been released, let alone one that has walked away without release?

Dear Sweet, You are a slave, and you are noble in wanting to commit as you said you would, but...
PLEASE remember that all of this is consensual (with YOUR consent); he can't really hold you against your will *winks*. Don't put your obviously bright brain on hold while trying to hold on to the fantasy of a good relationship. You committed to a person you believed was honest, healthy, and genuinely interested in you as a person... That as it may turn out was false... You can't build from falsehoods; so hopefully you and he can talk and clear up any problems there may be in communication, but if he is not someone you can trust/respect, than the contract is broken.

If he will not work on being on good human being and master himself, he has no business holding you to the obligation of being his slave.
It is true you already know what to do... It is not a poor reflection on you to use your good judgement and remove yourself from this situation (especially since it will probably get worse). Your being who you are (a slave in an M/s relationship) shouldn't result in your personal destruction.
I love your commitment to your role, but PLEASE do not stay in a sick situation using that as the reason. A good dominant would use your love, kindness and skills in a way that benefits both of you, or at least doesn't destroy you emotionally/financially..
Good luck, M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to sweet80525)

Post #: 21

RE: using me? - 6/12/2005 1:41:59 PM

pygmalionsub

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

for me. Trust is the foundation of a D/s relationship (or any relationship really) once the trust is gone, the D/s is gone, once the D/s is gone..you have no obligations to your relationship.

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 22

RE: using me? - 6/12/2005 2:03:20 PM

Raphael

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet80525

Thank You all for Your input. one still has questions, though. When a slave accepts her Master's collar, she commits for life, giving up all rights, all choices. So how can a slave choose to leave, choose to end the relationship, just because things have turned bad?

As you can see, most people don't actually care about committments anymore and think they can be tossed off instantly when they no longer suit you.

I don't, and I'm not going to tell you that.

But you have to understand that a contract is two-sided, and that fraud invalidates any contract.

You cannot, honorably, choose to leave just because things 'go bad,' because the fairy tale turned out to have all those flaws that they always do have, in real life.

But you can look at the situation you described in your first post, and recognise that you've been swindled.

Think of it this way - it's not a romantic analogy but it will work to illustrate the point.

If I sold you a horse, and you wrote me a check for it, and I promised you could come by later and pick it up - then after I cash the check I decide I don't want to give you the horse - that would be me breaking my word. I have to give you the horse - no matter how unhappy I am with the trade now.

But if on the other hand when I try to check the cash it bounces, there's no way in hell I'm going to let you take the horse.

See the difference?

From what you've said, it sounds to me like his check is bouncing all over you.

-RaphaEl

(in reply to sweet80525)

Post #: 23

RE: using me? - 6/12/2005 2:56:30 PM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet80525

Thank You all for Your input. one still has questions, though. When a slave accepts her Master's collar, she commits for life, giving up all rights, all choices. So how can a slave choose to leave, choose to end the relationship, just because things have turned bad? And what happens if the Master will not release her? one's Master has said that He will never release her. What kind of Master or Mistress would want a slave who has been released, let alone one that has walked away without release? one is lucky enough to have a very good friend, who has served for over 20 years and is so very wise, who has said that one's Master has brainwashed her, and been very successful at it. How can one go against everything they believe in as far as being a proper slave? Didn't one make her choice when she accepted His collar, and now has to live with the consequences? Oh boy, as you all can tell, one is so confused and is a mess.

greetings sweet...

The slave I currently owned failed herself as a slave and a previous Master as well. She literally cut off a collar and ran across the county to get away from him. This was about a decade before I met her. Given the circumstances she was in, I very much approve of her doing that. It was better to live as a failed slave than to die as a successful one. Your situation is not as dire.

There are two questions here that you and only you must answer or have answered. First, why did he change and will he change back to what you wanted/had when he collared you. Second is that if he is not going to change from what he is now...if that is the real him...do you stay with him until he leaves or uses you up or do you get rid of him before more harm is done to you. If the latter, then you will have failed as a slave, but may save yourself to be able to try again with a different Master.

You are correct that some will not wish a slave who has failed. Some will consider the circumstances. Some don't care as long as they get one. I wouldn't worry too much about the latter ones if I were you. Concentrate on the second group if you take the failure route. Just be certain that any future potential Master knows what happened. That will do some of the weeding of the abusers and fakes for you. They won't want someone who will leave when they revert to their natural state.

At this point...you have heard many people talking about your situation. Now you need to decide what, if anything you are going to do. Even if you don't decide...that is the same as deciding to keep going as you have been in a situation you do not like or want.

It is your choice girl. What will you do?

be well....

Malkinius

(in reply to sweet80525)

Post #: 24

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 6:12:50 AM

Atavist

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Malkinius
The slave I currently owned failed herself as a slave and a previous Master as well.

No offense intended but the statement above simply makes no sense to me. Others are free to see it as they choose.

No human being fails themself if they escape from an abusive situation. They fail if they stay and let it continue. Labeling a woman (or man) as a "failed slave" simply because they've left a bad relationship that could not be saved is fixing blame where it doesn't belong. It sounds like D/s BS to me. Fantasy. Anyone who buys into this IMHO, is badly misguided.

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 25

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 6:40:40 AM

DesertRat

Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Atavist

quote:

Malkinius
The slave I currently owned failed herself as a slave and a previous Master as well.

No offense intended but the statement above simply makes no sense to me. Others are free to see it as they choose.

No human being fails themself if they escape from an abusive situation. They fail if they stay and let it continue. Labeling a woman (or man) as a "failed slave" simply because they've left a bad relationship that could not be saved is fixing blame where it doesn't belong. It sounds like D/s BS to me. Fantasy. Anyone who buys into this IMHO, is badly misguided.

I agree, Atavist. It appears that online Goreans have their own definition of failure. It seems to make sense to them. Sorta like those cultures where it makes sense to stone a woman who has been raped. I don't think there is any need for non-Goreans to try to apply such concepts to the real world, though.

Bob (DesertRat)

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 26

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 8:25:58 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

When a slave accepts her Master's collar, she commits for life, giving up all rights, all choices. So how can a slave choose to leave, choose to end the relationship, just because things have turned bad?

I think you must have gotten this stuff out of some Harlequin romance version of D/s relationships. I suppose that's ok when things work out, but apparently that's not the case or you wouldn't have made your original post.

quote:

And what happens if the Master will not release her?

you throw his stuff out, change the locks, and get a restraining order to make him stay away if necessary

quote:

What kind of Master or Mistress would want a slave who has been released, let alone one that has walked away without release?

Guess what: there are plenty of people who have been in relationships that didn't work out -- for better and worse until death do us part . . . or until we get divorced. By your logic nobody would want a divorced partner either. And don't try to pretend that a master/slave relationship is so "special" it can't be compared to something so mundane as a marriage, because that is just more idealized nonsense.

Another way to look at it is even if it takes a loser of a master to want a slave who walked away without release, if he has a job and only lies 1/2 as much as your current master you would still be trading up from the loser you're with now.

quote:

How can one go against everything they believe in as far as being a proper slave?

Didn't you also once believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? Well, now it's time for you to learn that being a good slave doesn't mean you have to throw common sense out the window. There are times to start thinking for yourself instead of following the "rules", and it looks to me like the rules you're following are keeping you stuck in a rotten situation.

quote:

Didn't one make her choice when she accepted His collar, and now has to live with the consequences?

You made a choice that turned out to be a mistake, so you learn from it and move on. If you make a choice and buy a car that turns out to be a lemon, do you keep it because of some misplaced belief that it makes you a good car owner to live with the consequences?

Frankly, this blind adherence to the "rules" of being a good slave you're trying to follow without thinking for yourself just shocks me. To be so conflicted by those rules and making the relatively simple decision about dumping his worthless ass makes you look like a real sucker, or naive, or brainwashed as your friend said. However, you do deserve credit for soliciting opinions; I think you're really just looking for the nudge to take the action you know you must.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to sweet80525)

Post #: 27

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 8:52:30 AM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Without quoting happypervert's post, which hopefully is right above this one, I feel the need to say:

What he said!!!!

Sometimes I see stuff on these boards that is so idealized, so flowery, so out of touch with the realities of real life I want to puke! It's nice to see someone with a realistic take on things!

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 28

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 10:24:19 AM

sanita

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TimeOut

BeachMystress, thank You for this thought. one wondered also if He was depressed, but this is his pattern, one just did not want to think that it was also happening to her. one knows He is using her, but keeps thinking that if one could be a better slave that it would change Him, that there must be something one could do to make it better, that she is not seeing things clearly, etc. one is no longer afraid of being alone, but is afraid of making the wrong decision, and to be honest - dreads Him turning everything around again on girl and taking another emotional/verbal beating.

sorry,

i am a little confused here, TimeOut, i agree that Beach Mystress's point is an interesting, and plausible one. but i am having trouble with the perspective on the rest of your post. are you the original poster, or are you in a similar situation? or are you in third person relating to her situation?

i usually automatically read third person in here as first person, but i think you may be someone else in a similar situation, because the original post was in first person. regardless, i am wondering if you are being helped as well, or if you are in need of other feedback.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to TimeOut)

Post #: 29

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 10:38:10 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Atavist
No human being fails themself if they escape from an abusive situation. They fail if they stay and let it continue. Labeling a woman (or man) as a "failed slave" simply because they've left a bad relationship that could not be saved is fixing blame where it doesn't belong. It sounds like D/s BS to me. Fantasy. Anyone who buys into this IMHO, is badly misguided.

AGREE COMPLETELY.
and What HappyPervert said! M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 30

. - 6/13/2005 12:01:26 PM

sprite67

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

.

< Message edited by sprite67 -- 6/16/2005 8:20:12 AM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 31

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 12:21:52 PM

sweet80525

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Frankly, this blind adherence to the "rules" of being a good slave you're trying to follow without thinking for yourself just shocks me. To be so conflicted by those rules and making the relatively simple decision about dumping his worthless ass makes you look like a real sucker, or naive, or brainwashed as your friend said. However, you do deserve credit for soliciting opinions; I think you're really just looking for the nudge to take the action you know you must.

happypervert - one has not been allowed to think for herself, to have her own opinions, for so long that one feels she has almost lost them. one did not get her ideas of slavery from a Harlequin romance novel, this is what has been drilled into one's head by Him. one did trust Him, one did not know that He was only teaching this one what He wanted her to know, whether it be right or wrong. one trusted that He was teaching her as a good Master, not that He was brainwashing her into believing most of his (excuse the term) crap.

one believes that is why she is so conflicted - because what she was taught is obviously not so. When one is told every day that she is wrong, that she obviously does not understand what being a slave means, that she is a disgrace to the term slave, it does cause much confusion.

The main reason for the original post was because one felt in her heart that something was not right, and honestly - one has been scared to death that if she does not get out of this relationship soon that she will not be mentally able to leave, which one is sure were His intentions.

Thank all of you for your input. Yes, one knows what she needs to do, but one wanted validation that she was not crazy, that she was not totally wrong in the way she saw the situation (as one is told over and over). Now one just has to find the courage to finally put an end to this - but believes that the pain and heartache of leaving will be nothing compared to what one experiences if she stays. Again, thank you.

< Message edited by sweet80525 -- 6/13/2005 12:56:20 PM >

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 32

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 12:35:41 PM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Atavist

quote:

Malkinius
The slave I currently owned failed herself as a slave and a previous Master as well.

No offense intended but the statement above simply makes no sense to me. Others are free to see it as they choose.

No human being fails themself if they escape from an abusive situation. They fail if they stay and let it continue. Labeling a woman (or man) as a "failed slave" simply because they've left a bad relationship that could not be saved is fixing blame where it doesn't belong. It sounds like D/s BS to me. Fantasy. Anyone who buys into this IMHO, is badly misguided.

Greetings Atavist....

You did not include all of what I said.

quote:

The slave I currently owned failed herself as a slave and a previous Master as well. She literally cut off a collar and ran across the county to get away from him. This was about a decade before I met her. Given the circumstances she was in, I very much approve of her doing that. It was better to live as a failed slave than to die as a successful one. Your situation is not as dire.

She failed at being a slave. She did not beg release. She ran. She did not fail as a human. She failed to live up to her commitment to a Master. She failed herself by doing that. She failed him by running from him. She did the right thing. It doesn't matter that I believe slaves should not be in the situation she was in. That does not change what SHE did. She chose to fail and thereby did what I believe to be the right thing.

Yes, Goreans do hold this to be a pretty black and white when it comes to some things. This is one of them. It comes not from the online Goreans but from the offline ones. Many slaves fail. Many men fail as well. (See my reply about this to another post) The main point is that although we deem that failure, it is also not the end unless the slave gives up totally on being a slave. Many people try, fail, try again, fail again, keep trying and eventually succeed. That holds true for any area, not just slavery.

As for fixing blame. If a slave fails, the blame is hers. If a Master fails, the blame is his. If a Master's actions cause a slave to fail, then they have both failed unless the fact that those actions were going to happen were made crystal clear before the collar went on. In that case, and only in that case, the Master did not also fail.

One side comment to something in another post that I saw. Any slave that thinks she can change a Master by being a better or more of a slave than his previous slave(s) will all too often end up on the wrong side of failure. If he can not master himself, why does the slave think her submission will make him suddenly able to do it? While I suppose it can happen, I wouldn't bet on it. If it was a case of helping a Master learn better how to master a slave, where the slave has more experience than the Master, I would say it could happen if he was willing to learn. Otherwise, it is just asking for trouble.

Be well...

Malkinius

(in reply to Atavist)

Post #: 33

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 12:51:28 PM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweet80525

Frankly, this blind adherence to the "rules" of being a good slave you're trying to follow without thinking for yourself just shocks me. To be so conflicted by those rules and making the relatively simple decision about dumping his worthless ass makes you look like a real sucker, or naive, or brainwashed as your friend said. However, you do deserve credit for soliciting opinions; I think you're really just looking for the nudge to take the action you know you must.

happypervert - one has not been allowed to think for herself, to have her own opinions, for so long that one feels she has almost lost them. one did not get her ideas of slavery from a Harlequin romance novel, this is what has been drilled into one's head by Him. one did trust Him, one did not know that He was only teaching this one what He wanted her to know, whether it be right or wrong. one trusted that He was teaching her as a good Master, not that He was brainwashing her into believing most of his (excuse the term) crap.

one believes that is why she is so conflicted - because what she was taught is obviously not so. When one is told every day that she is wrong, that she obviously does not understand what being a slave means, that she is a disgrace to the term slave, it does cause much confusion.

The main reason for the original post was because one felt in her heart that something was not right, and honestly - one has been scared to death that if she does not get out of this relationship soon that she will not be mentally able to leave, which one is sure were His intentions.

Thank all of you for your input. Yes, one knows what she needs to do, but one wanted validation that she was not crazy, that she was not totally wrong in the way she saw the situation (as one is told over and over). Now one just has to find the courage to finally put an end to this - but believes that the pain and heartache of leaving will be nothing compared to what one experiences if she stays. Again, thank you.

sweet, best of luck to you. I'm sure there are organizations in your area that can help you if you feel you need any help (outside of your family and friends).

Again, good luck and my thoughts are with you.

cello

(in reply to sweet80525)

Post #: 34

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 12:54:28 PM

cellogrrlMK

Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Telling someone that they have failed or that they are a failure, especially in a personal relationship, is to me nothing more than a way to chip away at someone's self-esteem.

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 35

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 1:00:37 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

Maybe this is my Gorean training kicking in but a man who does that has no honor. He broke his unspoken trust that a sub/slave has in her Master to take care of her in all ways. I believe you are not bound by the pact you made when you accepted his collor because he did not honor it. And don't be so sure Dom's would not want a released slave.

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)

Post #: 36

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 1:09:03 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius
She failed at being a slave. She did not beg release. She ran. She did not fail as a human. She failed to live up to her commitment to a Master. She failed herself by doing that. She failed him by running from him. She did the right thing. It doesn't matter that I believe slaves should not be in the situation she was in. That does not change what SHE did. She chose to fail and thereby did what I believe to be the right thing.

I don't see that as a failure. Well, in point of fact, I see it as a failure of her owner, and a sucess on her behalf. As I see it, it is one of the foremost duties of someone who is owned to protect themself such that they are a thing worthy of being owned.

One is not a failure, even as an owned person, for protecting one's self. I see this as many who have already posted on this forum. Her owner failed in his reponsibility as owner. In failing that responsibility, he violated his contractual ownership of her and ceased to be her owner. That is, in becoming an abuser, he no longer filled the role of "owner" that she had agreed to belong to. He became someone other than the indivual she had given herself to. In other words, while perhaps he felt he owned her in name, by becoming abusive he ceased to be her owner. She owed him no more than anyone would another abuser.

Regardless of the intent of saying "she failed as a slave" saying so about something fleeing an abusive realtionship creates a -very- negative stigma on leaving such situations. As I see it, it's already difficult enough to remove onesself from abuse without being told that doing so makes you a "failure as a slave."

One CANNOT fail by doing the right thing. For example, if one's owner told one to kill another human being, and one refused, one is NOT a failure as a slave. Yup, disobeyd a dirrect order, but the owner, in asking something so blatantly abusive, has lost his/her right as owner. The second you become an abusive fuck you cease to be an owner and th person you claim to own has no more allegience to you than he/she would to anyone.

Of course, this is my opinion. Opinion aside, I think it is still a bad thing to call anyone a failure as a slave for actions such as this. We are constantly told that if we do not give up all that we are we are "not really submissive to our owners." I hate seeing this ideology of surrender even to the degree of great personal harm as being the -only- acceptable method of being owned.

I belong to my partner. I also, however, have a duty to protect myself and remain an individual -worth- owning. Behaviors which protect myself should not be seen as "failure." Ever.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 37

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 1:22:36 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

For another perspective, I have occasionally pondered how I would feel if I ended a relationship without permission to be released. Mostly, I avoid the topic and it's nothing I've had to face yet. It's not something I feel good about doing.

I'd have to say that I think it would be possible for me to leave without permission if the situation truly got to some extreme point. However, I don't know that I could or would still consider myself a slave or able to be in a relationship as a slave afterwards.

I'd have to do a lot of self-reflection, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with it and perhaps would feel as if I had lost something in myself because of it.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 38

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 2:17:51 PM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

Greetings all...

Let me try to spell this out again, because I know some people are not understanding what I said.

A person may fail at one thing and succeed at another with the same action. The success may be much more important than the failure. If you take a class, learn a lot, but fail the tests, you will fail the class. Sugar coating it by saying how much you learned does not change the fact that you failed the class. Either remain a failure for that class, or retake it and pass the tests the next time. Even if you do the latter, you still failed the class the first time. Anyone who tries to tell you differently is only hurting you. The fact is, in one area, the person failed. The fact is, in another area, the person succeeded. The fact is, that the person tried again and again until they succeeded in the area they failed at. How much sweeter is the feeling of success after failure than the success of those who have not failed?

The real point is to try. Try and even if you fail, keep trying. If you don't keep trying...then you are a failure for ever. Yes, that is harsh. Sorry folks, reality works that way. You are or you are not. I will never fault a slave for failing IF she is still striving to succeed. I may or may not agree with her reasons for failing. The most common one is that the person is not meant to be a slave. Maybe a sub...but they just can not surrender enough to be a slave. I know the subs out there don't fully understand the difference. The slaves do, and those are the ones I am speaking to.

Be well all....

Malkinius

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 39

RE: using me? - 6/13/2005 5:13:41 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I mostly understood what you're saying, I think we just have opposing viewpoints.

As I see it, one in the given situation hasn't failed as a slave, because one has ceased to be owned. The owner, in becoming abusive, ceases to be an owner and loses that slave's obligation of ownership.

I do see what you're saying. It's just not the veiwpoint I, myself, hold.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: using me?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109