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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 6:35:47 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I asked why a lot in the beginning because otherwise I couldn't learn how he thought. These days I rarely ask as I can usually understand where he's coming from. But if I need to know, he'll tell me. Which doesn't mean I always have a great moment of enlightenment! Sometimes it just points out the difference in thinking between men and women.

However I do need to know that my concerns are taken into account in major decisions. He may not believe that what I am worrying about is important enough to change his decision, but he always hears me. I am not marginalized.

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 6:41:51 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Many times he wants me to work it through on my own; he does not want me to rely on him to find the path to accpetance; he wants me to be able to get there myself after he has shown me the way.  
It is the difference between fishing for me and teaching me to fish. 

Wonderful explanation!  I definitely see much wisdom in that..........luci

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 7:02:32 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I would always try to give an explanation UNLESS I felt led by my higher power NOT to. My Mastery is part of my spirituality and to ignore my higher power in a situation like that would make me a poor Master, in my eyes.

Master Fire


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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 7:10:37 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
.....  The reason for his decision was that I was not needed there and ....


At the risk of Highjacking... I want to make a comment to the above.... that is related to asking Why.

I can appreciate that any person.. Dominant and submissive alike have a desire to feel needed.  The unfortunate reality is that we are not needed all the time.  For submissives in general, this in of itself can be somewhat difficult to deal with.  But, it something I believe they should confront and accept as a reality in their world..... "I am Not NEEDED at ALL Times"

It is my feeling that a sure way to spoil/ruin an incredible submissive is allowing them to develop a belief that they are Needed at All Times.   It may seem like a harmless to some... to me it sets the foundation of disappoints/struggles to decisions in the future.

Sometimes it is very necessary to "express a Why" that deflates the ego in such a manner that it actually builds Humility.  I would of done no favors to Kyra if I protected her from the reasons of why she couldn't fly to Edmonton.  In fact... the experience was a great character building opportunity.  There was a time that her confidence in being needed in my life was not as strong as it is now.  There was a time that to hear she wasn't needed would of been extremely stressful and result in alot of emotionally consequences.  However, she has reached a level of confidence in our relationship that allows her to hear and accept a decision and the reason with grace.. even if it wasn't what she would of liked to hear.  She should be looking at the experience with pride.  She should be looking at it as another moment that reflects the growth she has achieved in the past couple of years as my slave. 

I am proud of her.. she demonstrated her submission with Grace!

Wow.  Not a hijack at all but a very clear, basic post as why you do what Kyra explained.  Kind of a "tough love"/reality check approach that I find very honest and very refreshing.  What praise you give her for having grown over the past couple of years too!  I think striving to handle stress and decisions we may not like with grace is something most of us do.  Congrats to you both for having seen success in doing so.........luci

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 7:24:34 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
I asked why a lot in the beginning because otherwise I couldn't learn how he thought

Exactly.  Master has said as much - that it's fine for me to ask so that I will understand His thinking.
quote:

These days I rarely ask as I can usually understand where he's coming from. But if I need to know, he'll tell me. Which doesn't mean I always have a great moment of enlightenment! Sometimes it just points out the difference in thinking between men and women

Agreed as well!  I know that's supposed to be a negative, sexist thing to think but I do believe there can sometimes be vast differences.
quote:

However I do need to know that my concerns are taken into account in major decisions. He may not believe that what I am worrying about is important enough to change his decision, but he always hears me. I am not marginalized.

Amen!  It is so that way for me as well.  And I will go so far as to even say that, even if I know beforehand that my concerns are not in anyway going to change His decision(s), it still makes all the difference in the world just to be permitted to express them and to know He sincerely listens.  Being heard and validated means more than getting "my way."  I remember one time I got a punishment and I really needed to talk about it.  I had no desire to "talk Him out of it" and had no delusions that I would.  All I needed was to be heard about how I felt about it.  He listened and discussed my feelings with me and then the punishment proceeded as originally planned.  But some of the sting was taken out of it for me simply by knowing that He saw my point of view and respected me enough to listen to it.........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 6/27/2007 7:25:23 PM >

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 7:31:41 PM   
nearnyccouple


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		i use to be one of those people who wanted an explanation for everything.  i found it helped me retain some order in the chaos.  ive grown to learn that explanations can sometimes be painful, but like kyra dealing with the situation without the explanation has lead to growth.  Master allows me to question, but sometimes he doesnt explain, or will say the reasoning behind it may not be apparent now, at this moment, but will become clear at a future time.
this has led to a number of  personal epiphanies and me saying dayum, you were right again Master.  lol
cassie

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 7:37:14 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nearnyccouple
i use to be one of those people who wanted an explanation for everything.  i found it helped me retain some order in the chaos

 Anything that can help do that can't be all bad.
quote:

but like kyra dealing with the situation without the explanation has lead to growth.  Master allows me to question, but sometimes he doesnt explain, or will say the reasoning behind it may not be apparent now, at this moment, but will become clear at a future time.  this has led to a number of  personal epiphanies and me saying dayum, you were right again Master

.....Alright!  Good for you, cassie. Growth for you and some "You were right"'s for your Master - a win/win situation....luci 

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 9:05:25 PM   
ready4srvce4all


Posts: 767
Joined: 3/9/2007
Status: offline 		Probably the biggest issue that came between Mistress and I occured a couple weeks ago.  Mistress did not want me to leave till the next morning, I wanted to leave immediately.  I was able to convince Mistress that I would be okay driving from the Chicago area to the Pittsburgh area on hardly any sleep and under serious emotional issues.  She agreed, under certain circumstances.  Had She said, "No, you will wait till you have had a couple hours of sleep" I would have done as She said.  She of course did give me Her reasoning. 

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 9:17:44 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Slaveluci,

Great question.  Most of my thoughts have already been answered here by others, but I'll reply anyway. 

My Master owes me no explanations.  He will explain when he thinks it will be valuable for me to know.  Like KoM, he will give me those "tough love" explanations sometimes, too.  Hurt as they may,  I accept all of his decisions and will find my own way toward resolution whenever possible.  If I am getting tripped up, I will ask for his help.  Sometimes he will see my effort to understand, knowing I am pained but handling it, and he will offer an explanation on his own.  Sometimes explanations do not come until some time much later, if at all.

The important thing is that I trust him and his decisions, even when they are painful.  We are currently dealing with something now that is rather painful, and I will trust where he goes with it.  What helps is that I have a voice, and am allowed to express any concerns and/or difficulty I have, as long as I do so within understood parameters.  Expressing concern, however, does not mean he changes his mind.  But more often than not, just feeling heard gets me through those difficult times.

(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 10:14:47 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		Luci girl.... i LOVE this question ! Master and i have not really been in a situation to where He has made any "big" decisions for me. I do know that that time is definitely coming  though. I believe Master is teaching me to grow and learn and trust, which means He is taking a very didactic approach.(although there is a need for corporal punishment, and He uses that as well) This is VERY helpful for me personally as i learn best this way. Its also nice that there is someone in my life finally that thinks i'm worth talking to...LOL 

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 11:19:12 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Master always explains things to me, even as a kid the "Because I said so" reason was never good enough for me and most of the time made me withdraw from the task at hand. I am the curiouse sort and I just always need to know the why and how and the thinking going into things beeing done. This may make me seem like the most terrable slave alive and some may even say Im not really a slave, but if there is no clear reason or explination for orders and desistions made on my behalf by my Master (just as it was when they where by my parents) I tend to fight the desision it becomes nearly imposable for me to exept it. Master understands my need to know his thinking and the reason behind things and he has never had a problem explaining the why to me. And he has never once told me "becuase I said so"


Magik's slave

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If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
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before the devil even knows your there.


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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/27/2007 11:33:34 PM   
daddysblondie


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		I had a couple thoughts reading through the reponses to your question luci.

The first one is, as a parent, I often find myself having to make decisions that my charges aren't happy about. When I can offer an explanation, or feel that it would help, I will, but it seems there are more often times when I have to simply tell them, I'm sorry this is the way it has to be.

Secondly, while it wasn't a decision FOR me, Daddy recently made a decision for himself that greatly affected me, so much so that it was the end of our time together. I suppose I could have asked him WHY it had to be the end, because I understood WHY he had to take the job offer he got. I didn't ask him why, and really came to the why on my own. When I was able to talk to him and say, Yes, I understand why and I agree that this is for the best, I was truely able to support his decision. Then I got the pleasure of hearing that me coming to that place of agreement with him made it easier for him to do what he HAD to do.

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RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 8:03:31 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Hi Slaveluci,
Great question

Thanks ownedgirlie.  It's one I didn't remember seeing asked before and something I was really curious about. 
quote:

The important thing is that I trust him and his decisions, even when they are painful

I would have to totally agree with that.  Anyone can trust a decision they like or would make themselves.  It's those hard, painful ones that will test the real strength of that trust.
quote:

What helps is that I have a voice, and am allowed to express any concerns and/or difficulty I have, as long as I do so within understood parameters.  Expressing concern, however, does not mean he changes his mind.  But more often than not, just feeling heard gets me through those difficult times.

I know exactly what you mean.  As I said above, even knowing my input isn't going to influence matters, just having the freedom to express my feelings makes all the difference.  Thanks for your answer.........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 8:07:33 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav
Luci girl.... i LOVE this question!

Thank you, miss candy. 
quote:

He is taking a very didactic approach.(although there is a need for corporal punishment, and He uses that as well) This is VERY helpful for me personally as i learn best this way

I find this interesting because I am totally the opposite.  Corporal punishment is not something Master uses.  It's good that we each can find what works best for us, for sure.
quote:

Its also nice that there is someone in my life finally that thinks i'm worth talking to

It certainly is!  Congratulations on that.  Best to you and your master.........luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 8:22:06 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
even as a kid the "Because I said so" reason was never good enough for me and most of the time made me withdraw from the task at hand

Interesting.  I'm not like this personally but I do know people who very much are.  Some people just need a reason and I don't see any harm in that.  If a Dom/Master is aware of this upon entering into the relationship, perhaps they would see it as just a natural trait of that sub/slave and not see it as challenging, questioning behavior.
quote:

This may make me seem like the most terrable slave alive and some may even say Im not really a slave

Who gives a flying f**k?  People outside your relationship can say/think whatever they want.  That doesn't mean they know jack about what works for you and your master.  I find that people who spend excessive amounts of time fretting over whether someone else is "really a slave" don't usually have too much going on in their own lives.  And, if they do, they should perhaps be focusing on pleasing their own master instead of dictating how you please yours.
quote:

Master understands my need to know his thinking and the reason behind things and he has never had a problem explaining the why to me. And he has never once told me "becuase I said so"

Congrats to you and thanks for your answer..........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 8:27:51 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie
The first one is, as a parent, I often find myself having to make decisions that my charges aren't happy about. When I can offer an explanation, or feel that it would help, I will, but it seems there are more often times when I have to simply tell them, I'm sorry this is the way it has to be

I see how that same approach is just as valid within a D/s or M/s relationship.
quote:

I could have asked him WHY it had to be the end, because I understood WHY he had to take the job offer he got. I didn't ask him why, and really came to the why on my own. When I was able to talk to him and say, Yes, I understand why and I agree that this is for the best, I was truely able to support his decision. Then I got the pleasure of hearing that me coming to that place of agreement with him made it easier for him to do what he HAD to do.

I'm sorry it had to end things for you but it's really great that you were able to come to terms with why he made the decision(s) he did and show him that you support them.  I'm sure it was wonderful to hear that your acceptance made it easier for him.  Wishing you the best.........luci

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 8:48:00 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I also was thinking on the way in today that I don't want to come across that my lack of needing explanation for him is some sort of proof that we're so uber cool and that we've reached "the level" that you don't need explanations.

For a community who goes on about how much better our communication supposedly is than vanillas, it's shocking we actually have to have topics like these- do you ask your dom for X?  does your dom punish you for having an opinion?  do you get an explanation?

Good relationships are built on good communication.  Anyone who uses their orientation as a shield to hide their weaknesses in communicating will find a relationship that soon sours. 

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 9:06:08 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I also was thinking on the way in today that I don't want to come across that my lack of needing explanation for him is some sort of proof that we're so uber cool and that we've reached "the level" that you don't need explanations

....now all my illusions about you are shot.  Thanks a lot, LA.  Seriously, I am kinda of two minds about that.  I would tend to agree with you that not needing explanations doesn't mean you've necessarily reached some higher plain that the peasants haven't.  But.....I think Knight and Kyra helped to change my view on that by their explanations of how she has grown alot in their relationship over the past couple of years and how she doesn't feel the need for as many explanations now.  So, I kind of tend to think middle-of the-road here:  Not needing/wanting explanations doesn't necessarily mean you've reached a "higher level" BUT it can indicate growth and progress as evidenced by their (Knight's and Kyra's) experiences and those of others. 
quote:

For a community who goes on about how much better our communication supposedly is than vanillas, it's shocking we actually have to have topics like these- do you ask your dom for X?  does your dom punish you for having an opinion?  do you get an explanation?

No argument here.  But then the whole concept of this nebulous "community" escapes me, frankly.  As you are famous for saying, people don't really act any differently within the parameters of this "BDSM community" so many speak of than they do without them.  It's basically ridiculous to think they do. 
quote:

Good relationships are built on good communication.  Anyone who uses their orientation as a shield to hide their weaknesses in communicating will find a relationship that soon sours.

What can be added to that?  So true...........luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 9:12:19 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Master has not made any bit decisions for me.  If he did (or does)  I know he will explain his reasons for making said decision.  It is just the way Master is. 

Matt's littleone

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you get an explanation? - 6/28/2007 9:42:59 AM   
laineyjade


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

To all you subs/slaves out there whose Dom/me or Master/Mistress does have such final authority in all/most matters, when they make a decision that you find painful (and one different from what you would have decided), do they explain why to you? 


greetings luci,

Master will explain at great lengths why and how he arrives at certain decisions, he is a natural teacher so it delights him for me to understand. It's funny when he changes his mind about something, he will explain the entire process from Point A to Point B, and it's become helpful to me both to understand him and to learn more insightful decision making skills for myself.
But, explanations are given after I am obedient. "Do it, then we will talk about it" is something standard I hear. That feels good to me, like I am allowed to question and challenge his decisions but not disobey them. It feels both safe and secure that way. In the rare case that I'm having an emotional meltdown and am too fearful or upset to do something he told me to do, he doesn't so much explain the decision as work with me to address what I fear and get me back into a safe place. Often the fear is something that didn't make sense, maybe something held over from a previous experience, or based on a misunderstanding.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 40
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