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Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 7:48:53 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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This will probably be removed by the Mods before it has substantial length of time here on this board.  However, I am posting it anyway.
 
On many other threads, We have talked about BDSM labels, definitions of Self, and how We fit into the same.  Though I am not especially a fan of this practice, My question is this.....
 
What if, there are times We find Ourselves perfectly content within those definitions?  The times We would hope to find a submissive who is easily described by the contexts of labels and boxes?   Has the net, along with all of it's conotations, allowed us to expect something less, than Our persuit of a genuine submissive heart?
 
There are, in truth, beautiful submissive minds to be found here upon the boards.  I mentioned, on another thread, those names which I consider the cream of the crop.  They are so few and far between that they make the others look like a pool of second class.  A few precious gems amongst the coal mine.  Am I wrong to think this?  Or have I become, in some aspects, jaded as to the sincerety of the heart and soul?
 
I realize this is a bit of a ramble, but if you can identify in any way, I would appreciate your feedback.
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 8:03:04 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
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I am not sure why you think this thread would be removed? It seems to me to be a very relevant question and addressed to the right forum.

The way I see it, what you are identifying is the difference between submissives and bottoms. And yes, there is a difference. The label does try to address it, as it's to do with mind set. I will poke this hornets' nest with my stick too - I see the problem arising more with male submissives than females. (Yes, it's a generalisation - so shoot me!) 

Are males less "submissive" than females? No, I don't believe so. I think it's a numbers thing. There are many more males than females interested in DBSM, and for many males, it's more a bottoming thing than a submissive thing. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's confusing. That's why some people call themselves slaves - they are trying to indicate their mental submission. But others mis use the term or are confused by it, and the problem continues and proliferates.

Once you've played with someone who is genuinely submissive, you will never be confused again - and I'm not talking about passiveness either. But not everyone wants submissiveness. We think we do, but many of us actually don't.

Yes, this is probably woolly and rambling, because it's hard to be precise about things that are qualitative, but I agree with your essential point - it IS worth looking for the gems. But we can't blame the rejects either, because it's just not possible to find the gems without sifting through the pile. One size does not fit all.

:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 8:06:03 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This will probably be removed by the Mods before it has substantial length of time here on this board.  However, I am posting it anyway.
 
On many other threads, We have talked about BDSM labels, definitions of Self, and how We fit into the same.  Though I am not especially a fan of this practice, My question is this.....
 
What if, there are times We find Ourselves perfectly content within those definitions?  The times We would hope to find a submissive who is easily described by the contexts of labels and boxes?   Has the net, along with all of it's conotations, allowed us to expect something less, than Our persuit of a genuine submissive heart?
 
There are, in truth, beautiful submissive minds to be found here upon the boards.  I mentioned, on another thread, those names which I consider the cream of the crop.  They are so few and far between that they make the others look like a pool of second class.  A few precious gems amongst the coal mine.  Am I wrong to think this?  Or have I become, in some aspects, jaded as to the sincerety of the heart and soul?
 
I realize this is a bit of a ramble, but if you can identify in any way, I would appreciate your feedback.


Not a ramble at all and I can completely identify. Part of my "break" aside from having such a hectic schedule due to schoo/study/work was that I did find myself a bit jaded regarding the sincerity of those that were responding to me. So I decided that since I needed to focus on a very specific personal goal it would also afford me the time to take a step back and truly evaluate whether my standards were simply too impossibly high for anyone to meet let alone exceed.

While I could certainly apply more than a few labels to myself. Sadist, Dominant, Cuckoldress to name a few. I would like to think that there's someone out there somewhere that can simply see Me as a whole person, not just the labels that may apply.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 10:05:50 PM   
RchmdServiceNeed


Posts: 36
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I'm not sure I understand the Question [or that there even was one]?

What was the question?

Thanks!

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 10:16:17 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I mentioned, on another thread, those names which I consider the cream of the crop.  They are so few and far between that they make the others look like a pool of second class.  A few precious gems amongst the coal mine.  Am I wrong to think this?  ....


I think it's great that you found people cut from your own cloth. It's a blessing to find someone who gets you. And vice versa.

Wrong? I think NOt.

Right on Woman.
:)


(I think for the ones left out of your crop, to others they are gems.)

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 10:20:18 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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hahahahahahahahahha
Give me a kiss Dolly.
Let's go look for the castaway gems together.
<wink>

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MistressDolly)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 10:25:20 PM   
MistressDolly


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Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

hahahahahahahahahha
Give me a kiss Dolly.
Let's go look for the castaway gems together.
<wink>


*muah

:)

Let's go Momma!

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 10:41:02 PM   
needDomme


Posts: 115
Joined: 4/8/2006
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No reason i can see for this thread to be removed. There are many individuals on this board with various tastes, wants and needs. The labels are not controlling. If you find one that you gel with, that's fine no matter what label is used.

Just wanted to get in my 2 cents. Thanks.

need


(in reply to MistressDolly)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/27/2007 11:27:40 PM   
wldchld


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/23/2007
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I have been reading these threads for quite some time. speaking only for myself, that if I am to be a gem, I will need time to grow, and have the rough spots polished away. I think a lot of the people here are new and still trying to figure out who they are. I believe that some of them, maybe a good majority have no real leg to stand on when it comes to the lifestyle. But that in turn shouldnt mean they don't want to stand up. I would like to in time discover who I am, what I like, what I enjoy, who I fit, and just feel confident in saying, yes I am a sub, switch, dom, or just into fetishes.
I think this is a great post, and if read by people who call them subs, it should be a sort of check point, or a call for self evaluation. Anyway, thanks for letting me share

(in reply to needDomme)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 2:18:45 AM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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i know i see myself as submissive, while some people would say, " No that makes you this or that " To me, the whole point about labels is they aren`t set in stone. If i am with a Mistress who decides i am more slave than submissive, or more bottom than slave.... Guess what, it doesn`t matter, all that matters is we have the right chemistry that allows us to be us, regardless of what labels one uses.




(in reply to wldchld)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 5:49:59 AM   
aimtopleaseyou22


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

hahahahahahahahahha
Give me a kiss Dolly.
Let's go look for the castaway gems together.
<wink>


*muah

:)

Let's go Momma!


Mz Mia & Ms Dolly,

You can both stop looking... You've found me!!!! ;)

*muah 

P.S. -- Perhaps i'll run into You in Myrtle Beach sometime Mz Mia.

john

(in reply to MistressDolly)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 6:55:56 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
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This will be a good thread LadyP...!!!! 

Personally I'm still struggling with the WTF am I thingy? I have a dentist appointment shortly and look forward to seeing the replies when I return!

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 6:59:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Ah Ha!!!!!

You are a dental fetish sub!!!!

LabelMaster

edited because I can't spell

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/28/2007 7:00:46 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 7:05:45 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54
Personally I'm still struggling with the WTF am I thingy? I have a dentist appointment shortly and look forward to seeing the replies when I return!


OMG I get so submisssssive in a dentist's chair!!! Good luck with yer teeth!

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to stockingluvr54)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 7:16:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
And a wise thing too, Calandra.

You are on the wrong end of the spitcup to be saying looky here you sumbitch---

Really?
I think if you are content with labels and with your surroundings and with everything going the way it is, then you have found yourself and public opinion is of utterly no consequence.

Ron(ne)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 8:32:25 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
On many other threads, We have talked about BDSM labels, definitions of Self, and how We fit into the same.  Though I am not especially a fan of this practice, My question is this.....
 
What if, there are times We find Ourselves perfectly content within those definitions?  The times We would hope to find a submissive who is easily described by the contexts of labels and boxes?   Has the net, along with all of it's conotations, allowed us to expect something less, than Our persuit of a genuine submissive heart?
 
There are, in truth, beautiful submissive minds to be found here upon the boards.  I mentioned, on another thread, those names which I consider the cream of the crop.  They are so few and far between that they make the others look like a pool of second class.  A few precious gems amongst the coal mine.  Am I wrong to think this?  Or have I become, in some aspects, jaded as to the sincerety of the heart and soul?


Lady Pact,
First, as you're not a fan of labels, you recognize we're all individuals and need to be thought of as such.  Going to the EZ Label solution really limits the possibilities for relationships.  Here's just one example, Mistress "labels" herself as "Bi".  I'd have never thought I'd be with a woman who was Bi, but as our relationship is monogamous, that label doesn't matter or even apply.  There are experiences I had with Bi women as a young man that normally would have me avoiding them like the plague (no offense to anyone intended) if it was something they felt the need to continue to act on.  Thus, the conclusion that labels can also be very misleading!
 
As to those you mentioned in your other post on the boards (and thank you for the kind words), not everyone who is a submissive is also going to be inclined to share their thoughts with others via the boards here.  They may not have the writing skills to do it in a manner that effectively conveys their thoughts, or they may not feel it's their place to do so if they did.  There are also those who simply are here to learn who may have the submissive heart, but not the experience, who may not feel as though they have a lot to contribute for that reason.  The point being there may be many "submissive gems" out there who for one reason or another don't post on the boards, thus aren't readily visible to others.  There are likely many who have the desire to become polished gems, but simply need a wise Mistress to guide them on their journey into submission and self improvement. 
 
Gems aren't made overnight, and neigther are polished ones.  There's lots of raw material or material that's "in the rough" out there to work with.  I'd think that part of the fun for a woman would be recognizing a "gem in the rough" and the other half would be watching that gem begin to shine as it's rough edges disappear while they're being polished away under her direction and guidance. 
 
Perhaps Mistress & I need to open two franchise operations, one called "Build a sub", and the other called "Build a Domme"; the latter for all the men to send their vanilla spouses and girlfriends to try and convert them into Bedroom Tops, errr Dommes that is.
 
 - pixel
 
   Collared to Majik on  6-23-07

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 8:44:20 AM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
I'm not so sure that what the OP is talking about is the difference between "submissives" and "bottoms" so much as the difference between people who are truly serious about this lifestyle and people who are just interested in the fantasy, (and I don't see that as a sub vs. bottom issue at all). At least, that's what I got from the post...and I could simply be reading my own stuff into that, I dunno. Personally, the frustration sets in when I see out of the few emails that make it into my inbox, that really the majority of them are just playing some sort of kinky fantasy game. And into this category I put the players, the cheaters, and the ones who just haven't done enough self-exploration to have a clue about who they are, what they want and how they could possibly please or be of any use to a Dominant woman.

My 2-cents.


MNN

(in reply to pixelslave)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 9:02:10 AM   
LadyClaudiaVan


Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
I would have to say that for myself I am not foolish in thinking labels are a bad thing nor am I foolish to think labels are an all or nothing end. Labels are needed when your looking for a male who is submissive only in the bedroom and you want to exclude those men who are looking for a more indepth power exchange extending outside of the bedroom. A submissive man won't mesh well with a woman who only desires to see her man submissive in the bedroom only (a bottom) . Labels are important to a degree in that they help people identify with one another on a foundation level. It saves a lot of time and confusion to know if your talking to a man who prefers to submit 24/7 or just for play moments.

I never understand why people cant at least admit that a certain level of uniformity in labels is important. Call the facts out for what they are and drop the line blurring should not have to be so hard.

(in reply to MistressNoName)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 12:30:39 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName
I'm not so sure that what the OP is talking about is the difference between "submissives" and "bottoms" so much as the difference between people who are truly serious about this lifestyle and people who are just interested in the fantasy, (and I don't see that as a sub vs. bottom issue at all). At least, that's what I got from the post...and I could simply be reading my own stuff into that, I dunno.


I think you read the OP correctly.  It takes a lot of introspection for a person to recognize they are genuinely submissive and for them to understand the difference between the fantasy and the reality of this lifestyle.  Then comes the process of gaining experience to discover one's actual limits; the ones where they perceive they are at vs where they will eventually be or move in a direction toward.  The two can be very different as I've discovered in my own journey.

quote:


Personally, the frustration sets in when I see out of the few emails that make it into my inbox, that really the majority of them are just playing some sort of kinky fantasy game. And into this category I put the players, the cheaters, and the ones who just haven't done enough self-exploration to have a clue about who they are, what they want and how they could possibly please or be of any use to a Dominant woman.

My 2-cents.


MNN


I can empathize with your frustration and can readily understand where it comes from as you meet people who are moving through their journeys in life on their way toward discovering who they really are.  Whether you realize it or not, or even intend to, perhaps part of your role in life is to help some of them toward that end of self discovery? 
 
I have to wonder if women who are seeking aren't in a position to help those with little experience to take a closer look at themselves?  I can readily see where a woman could help them examine who they are as part of what they must do to earn their place to serve.  In a very real sense, doesn't a woman do that in some way in choosing a submissive; each woman to her own methods?
 
I find myself pondering if there isn't some way to help those who have it in their heart to serve a woman to move beyond the stereotypes faster (as seen in the media and other places), so they can be available and open to the real world of being submissive to a compatible woman in this lifestyle that would love to have them as hers.
 
 - pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to MistressNoName)
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RE: Have I cornered Myself in a box? - 6/28/2007 2:06:22 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
(Fast reply)

I would say that there is nothing wrong with looking for someone that fits a particular label. The trouble is that those labels are often il-defined. So long as YOU know exactly what it is you are looking for, are sufficiently articulate to explain that specification to others, and are willing to put in the time and effort nessesary to find someone who meets your criteria, than I say Kudos. I have opined frequently among these fora that discerning what *Exactly* it is that you desire, and not settling for anything less, is a principle key to a happy long-term relationship. The trouble is, it can take a frustratingly long time to find someone who matches your specifications. It took me roughly ten years, maybe a little bit longer, from start to finish, to find the woman that I would eventually marry, then another seven years to convince her that I was right. I started that search when I was a teenager, and it took me a long time to become the person I needed to be to attract her, and it took me a long time to put myself in the right place at the right time to meet her, and all the while I was searching, revising my list, winnowing out what I wanted from what I needed, and (after a few mishaps) adding a second list of what I did not want as well. Despite all the whining I do in my journal, I can honestly say that those years of effort were not wasted.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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