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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 8:16:24 AM   
shamedmale


Posts: 135
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		A doctor told me recently that I have some symptoms of Aspergers Syndrome. At first I dismissed her opinion but more and more I think She's right.  For one I have social anxiety and am constantly worried about interactional situations in the workplace. I have a honours degree in English but when Im faced with dealing with phone calls I mentally get stressed and dont know how to handle it. I think I definitely have some symptoms of this condition and I dont know what to do about it. I a m in a job at the moment but Im scared that when Im moved on to phone work as I will be that all my symptoms will be laid bare and Ill lose my job like I lost another
shamed

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 11:53:56 AM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		I'll grant you that Aspies might be able to learn empathy via some mathlike-logic...but why in the world would we WANT to?

I think it's enough that I can ACT as though I'm experiencing empathy because I have learned through trial and error that I'm "supposed" to in certain situations and it's easier to "do the monkey dance" sometimes just to keep from stressing my work environment.

For example, I have learned via logic that I am SUPPOSED to offer congratulations on a new baby, even if my REAL thought is "Why in the world are you popping out more babies into our overpopulated planet".  When I'm having a good day, I will be nice and say "congratulations" rather than launching into a diatribe including statistics on overpopulation, which I'm told is a non-empathetic thing to do. By my logic, if they didn't want to hear my opinion than they shouldn't have mentioned the baby to me and that if they were gonna do something stupid like produce multiple children to help kill our overpopulated planet, then they should have been prepared for the backlash. Furthermore, I've learned that I'm supposed to oooh and aaah over the pictures of their little red faced monstronsities...

OR, apparantly when someone mentions that someone they know has died, you are supposed to say, "I'm sorry." I have learned that this is the appropriate response. Why I'm supposed to be sorry is beyond me, because I don't even know the dead guy and further more, death is a part of life. Sure, I was devastated when my own grandmother died, but why in the world would I want people who didn't even know her to offer me her condolences?

Likewise, I've learned that I'm not supposed to eat with my hands or lick my soup bowl, though I can't think of one logical reason not to and will continue to do it when I'm at home or with close friends.

I have learned that I am SUPPOSED to shake hands at an introduction and to not do so is percieved at rude for some reason. Nevermind that hands are one of the most germ-contaminated areas of the body and that I have no way of knowing if that person just touched his penis while urinating or if they just wiped their nose or something...I'm still supposed to touch them. (And on a side note these women who insist on hand shaking are usually the same ones who won't sit on a public toilet seat, despite numerous studies which have proven that the toilet seat is relatively uncontaminated as most germs are on the door handle where your HAND touches...that's the same hand you want me to shake for social propriety.)

See in these situations I see no reason to develop empathy or social skills. As long as I can "fake it" long enough to survive in the work place, that's all that's important.

The world is full of overly emotional people who tip toe around trying not to hurt other people's feelings...gods know we don't need anymore of that crap! The world needs more blunt people who tell it like it is. We've become such a lovey-dovey society that it's a sin to be honest anymore or blunt.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 6/30/2007 11:57:42 AM >

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to shamedmale)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 3:27:38 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
I'll grant you that Aspies might be able to learn empathy via some mathlike-logic...but why in the world would we WANT to?


To achieve professional success in most fields, some degree of social adeptness can be quite helpful.  Also I have no desire to hurt humans unintentionally any more than I would want to needlessly cause pain to any other animal.  It's not the monkeys' fault that they're monkeys, and the poor mind-bound creatures have emotional compulsions and fixations that we have to humor to keep from hurting their feelings.  That's why I've been willing to learn to fake it, though my willingness generally ends where my personal time begins.


quote:

Likewise, I've learned that I'm not supposed to eat with my hands or lick my soup bowl, though I can't think of one logical reason not to and will continue to do it when I'm at home or with close friends.


Ritualized food touching taboos are probably my biggest single hot button.  They're stupid, counterproductive, dysfunctional and absolutely bizzare.  I can do "Japanese tea ceremony" and adhere to these monkey rituals in public, and I can even consider them a sort of complex meditative dance.  In my own home, not just no, but hell no.  You don't like it, you don't come into my home.  I'll only humor the monkeys so far, and I really dislike engaging in bizzare, superstitious, ritualistic behaviors with my dinner.  Food is to eat, in a manner that is healthy, sanitary and practical.

quote:

The world is full of overly emotional people who tip toe around trying not to hurt other people's feelings...gods know we don't need anymore of that crap! The world needs more blunt people who tell it like it is. We've become such a lovey-dovey society that it's a sin to be honest anymore or blunt.


They're monkeys.  They're wired that way.  They can't help it.  I feel the same sympathy and compassion for them as I do for any other animal that is a product - and a prisoner - of the instincts they evolved.  That doesn't mean I let monkeys chatter and hoot and fling poo inside my house or my personal boundaries, but I understand that they need to do so in theirs, and it's okay.  When I enter an animal enclosure, I need to be prepared to display the correct behavioral signals of that species so that they do not feel frightened or threatened.  That applies to Homo sapiens as well as zoo animals. 

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 3:33:24 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I am not AS but damned if I can handle extensive "oh you just had a baby how GREAT" routines!


(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 3:59:27 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

thank you for sharing how your mind processes the world....the monkey analogy makes a LOT of sense to me.  its also helped me understand a couple of people i've known a lot better.



Unfortunately, it's also given me a powerful urge to fling poo at some of the people i work with to see if that will finally get through to them.


*giggling*  you too, huh? 

kitten, who has always danced to the beat of her own bagpiper.

(in reply to petdave)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 5:02:43 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

I'll grant you that Aspies might be able to learn empathy via some mathlike-logic...but why in the world would we WANT to?


Honestly, i've just always wanted to be Normal. i put a lot of energy into it, but i really don't "pass" consistently. Everyone has different needs.

quote:

For example, I have learned via logic that I am SUPPOSED to offer congratulations on a new baby, even if my REAL thought is "Why in the world are you popping out more babies into our overpopulated planet".  When I'm having a good day, I will be nice and say "congratulations" rather than launching into a diatribe including statistics on overpopulation, which I'm told is a non-empathetic thing to do. By my logic, if they didn't want to hear my opinion than they shouldn't have mentioned the baby to me


Word of advice- "Do you know who the father is?", despite displaying interest in the conversation, and even when delivered with positive inflection, is not the "right" first response. Sigh.

...dave

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 6:35:58 PM   
rhythmboi


Posts: 46
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		i ain't convinced, y'all...in the war-ridden society we live in, i think empathy would go alot farther than bluntness or logic as far as creating peace and equality. bombing the crap about of people has been logically justified again and again, but it doesn't stand up much to empathizing with those who are getting bombed. it's unfortunate that those in political power don't use (or perhaps have) empathy skills.

a related question:
is not being able to experience empathy the same thing as not having a conscience? in that case, is AS a kind of sociopathy?

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 8:39:33 PM   
cloudboy


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People with that syndrome have a hard time connecting to others and relating to anyone on a emotional level. I think a sub with aspergers looks to a Domme for structure and protocols. Absent those, he might otherwise find women bewildering and confusing.

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 9:31:14 PM   
Najakcharmer


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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi
is not being able to experience empathy the same thing as not having a conscience? in that case, is AS a kind of sociopathy?


It may or may not be related.  For me personally, sociopathy may well apply since I have no particular interest in being liked, approved of or accepted by other people or by society in general.  I'm not personally attached to the human race or the human condition.  I don't need (and really don't want) a lot of social time.  I understand that some other people with AS do have a high need for human social contact and acceptance, though their lack of functioning empathy prevents them from easily being able to make others comfortable with their presence.  I don't think they would qualify as sociopaths since they do have the need for being liked and accepted by a social group, just not the skills to achieve that goal.

I enjoy making casual friends for good conversation, and I do make a point of showing fairness, respect and appreciation in all my relationships whether they are personal or business.  However I honestly don't need friends, and can go very happily for very long periods of time with no social contact at all.  When the folks I've enjoyed spending time with pop up on my radar I'm glad to see them, but I don't actually mind (or even notice) if they disappear for weeks, months or even years.  

A lack of empathy doesn't mean that you are completely callous.  It means that you are unable to determine how another person may be feeling and what may cause them to feel that way.  You simply don't know what they're feeling or how they are reacting or why, unless they tell you clearly in so many words.  Your actions or words may cause others to feel a certain way, but you won't understand how that works or why it should work.  You may (or may not) care very deeply about making other people happy and making them like you, but without empathy you're unlikely to be successful since you'll be flailing around in the dark. 

I don't have empathy, but in most situations you wouldn't be able to tell.  I compensate by applying the logic of an anthropologist to the situation, and make reasonably educated guesses about the mental and emotional states of others based on my knowledge of the individual, their behavior and their culture.  I'm actually much better at doing this with animals than with humans, but I can make it work passably well on people when I feel like expending the mental effort.  I generally make calculated decisions about whether or not I want to expend the effort.

Interestingly enough, I think that the fact that I've been forced to develop this specific kind of "mind reading" skill for what is effectively an alien species has actually done me considerable favors.  I work with wildlife, and I'm very, very good at what I do.  I don't think I'd be nearly as good if I hadn't had to figure out how to accurately predict feelings and behaviors based on the logical analysis of behavioral cues from animals that were not like me.

(in reply to rhythmboi)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 11:12:19 PM   
GeekyGirl


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Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi


a related question:
is not being able to experience empathy the same thing as not having a conscience? in that case, is AS a kind of sociopathy?


Actually we often have overdeveloped consciences. My sense of right and wrong is VERY strong and furthermore driven by PERSONAL morals as opposed to a need to conform to SOCIETY's morals.

"Empathy" is the ability to put oneself in anothers shoes and see things from their point of view. It has NOTHING to do with morals/conscience/ability to understand right and wrong.

I have very definate ideas of right and wrong...For example, "stealing is wrong". "Murder is wrong." "Rape is wrong." "Breaking the law is wrong." etc. I have no problem forming a conscience and feeling "right from wrong".

Once an aspie has formed a rule for behavior, it is often absolute in their mind though and hence we can be very uncompassionate when we percieve that another person has violated our code of ethics. THAT would demonstrate a lack of empathy. We're mathmatical thinkers. "A + B = C." ALWAYS. No exceptions.

For example: My conscience says that stealing is always wrong. Always. No ifs/ands/buts/extenuating circumstances. You say you stole to feed your starving children? Too bad, so sad...not my problem. Guess you should have made sure you were alittle more financially stable before you reproduced. THAT demonstrates a lack of empathy because I just genuinely don't care about why you stole or whether your kids are starving. It does not change anything. We are literal and we tend to see in absolutes (or such is true for me.)

Am I making sense? Do you see where conscience and empathy have NOTHING to do with each other? I have a conscience and it tells me what is right and wrong and I don't have much tolerance for others who's version of "right and wrong" is different from mine aka a lack of being able to understand another's point of view.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to rhythmboi)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 6/30/2007 11:25:23 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
For example: My conscience says that stealing is always wrong. Always. No ifs/ands/buts/extenuating circumstances. You say you stole to feed your starving children? Too bad, so sad...not my problem. Guess you should have made sure you were alittle more financially stable before you reproduced. THAT demonstrates a lack of empathy because I just genuinely don't care about why you stole or whether your kids are starving. It does not change anything. We are literal and we tend to see in absolutes (or such is true for me.)


I'm a little more flexible.  If someone steals to feed their starving children, I understand that this behavior is not in the same context as someone who steals because they want a new IPod, or to feed a cocaine habit.  I do recognize that there are circumstances under which someone might end up with starving children and still not be an incompetent waste of oxygen who should be subject to the most extreme consequences of natural selection.  However I do strongly support natural selection and social Darwinism, and as a general rule, I'd as soon see people who punch holes in a lifeboat summarily thrown overboard. 

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/1/2007 7:37:37 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi

i ain't convinced, y'all...in the war-ridden society we live in, i think empathy would go alot farther than bluntness or logic as far as creating peace and equality. bombing the crap about of people has been logically justified again and again, but it doesn't stand up much to empathizing with those who are getting bombed. it's unfortunate that those in political power don't use (or perhaps have) empathy skills.

a related question:
is not being able to experience empathy the same thing as not having a conscience? in that case, is AS a kind of sociopathy?


Ah, somebody gets it....    I would not, however, say that lack of empathy is the same as lack of conscience.  There are strong 'logical' reasons to support the same set of actions that most people would connect to 'having a conscience', a person with low empathy may strictly subscribe to these without having any sense of connection to what other people are feeling.  In fact, in my observation and study it seems that AS people generally have very strong 'consciences' in this regard and seem to be better than average at avoiding deliberately harmful actions.  As 'selfish' as they often appear, they do not seem to be greedy, and whatever logic of acquisition may drive them it doesn't seem as emotionally driven as that of NTs. 
Back to empathy, however:  as I suggested, and Geekygirl demonstrates, there tends to be a blind spot there.  It's difficult to explain to someone who has been deaf since birth what the joys of music are, and logically there is no reason why they should be interested. Empathy is a similar kind of thing.  Does it come with penalties? Certainly. Just as having an appreciation for music can make it difficult to listen to the radio. 
Aspies often feel that their abilities and perspectives are misunderstood and undervalued by NTs (and they are).  By the same token, AS people tend to misunderstand and undervalue aspects of NT psychology.  Having a foot in both worlds, I see, and feel, both of these feelings myself.  My basic point is that it serves neither group to be dismissive of the other.  Such attitudes are ultimately driven, I believe, by a sense (often well hidden) that we ourselves are in fact lacking, defective, incomplete or just plain strange, and this tends to make us defensive, whichever side of the divide we might be on.  For my own part, I have found that confronting and accepting my own limitations, and embracing the differences of others is a happier path.  


(in reply to rhythmboi)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/1/2007 7:54:26 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
For example: My conscience says that stealing is always wrong. Always. No ifs/ands/buts/extenuating circumstances. You say you stole to feed your starving children? Too bad, so sad...not my problem. Guess you should have made sure you were alittle more financially stable before you reproduced. THAT demonstrates a lack of empathy because I just genuinely don't care about why you stole or whether your kids are starving. It does not change anything. We are literal and we tend to see in absolutes (or such is true for me.)


I'm a little more flexible.  If someone steals to feed their starving children, I understand that this behavior is not in the same context as someone who steals because they want a new IPod, or to feed a cocaine habit.  I do recognize that there are circumstances under which someone might end up with starving children and still not be an incompetent waste of oxygen who should be subject to the most extreme consequences of natural selection.  However I do strongly support natural selection and social Darwinism, and as a general rule, I'd as soon see people who punch holes in a lifeboat summarily thrown overboard. 



Whew.  When I saw Geekygirl's post, I thought- sheesh, this is just the kind of thing that NTs worry about...  Between these two posts we see some suggestion of the range of AS- it's not just 'one thing'.  Aspies have quite a range of intellect, mental flexibility, and even empathy.  I seen in Geeky's post a serious downside from her empathy deficit- her inability to perceive a situation through another's eyes leads to an arbitrary and harmful rigidity of priorities. Najakcharmer's reply, whether driven by a bit more empathy or a more elaborate logic-tree, embodies more flexibility- a good thing, in my view. One value of empathy is that it promotes flexibility, as well as adding significant data on which to build logical constructs.


(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/1/2007 8:01:41 AM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


People with that syndrome have a hard time connecting to others and relating to anyone on a emotional level. I think a sub with aspergers looks to a Domme for structure and protocols. Absent those, he might otherwise find women bewildering and confusing.


That's not true for me. I am VERY emotional about things which are of personal importance to ME and I can definately connect in an emotional way...I just have a hard time understanding OTHER people's emotions.

However, despite having an emotional bond with someone, I still won't follow them blindly based on that emotion. For example, dominant or not, I'm not going to follow rules that don't make logical sense just because "I said so." A dom who works with me has to be prepared to explain his rules in a way that makes logical sense and also shows me how said rule will benefit my life or make me a better person, because ultimately I am selfishly motivated in most things and don't much care about making other people happy UNLESS I feel they "deserve" for me to make them happy.

In other words, on that theme, I would rarely do a random act of kindness. I wouldn't feel like I got anything out of it. But I would do something kind to help a friend because I know that they help ME and I see the relationship as having reciprocal benefits to me.




_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/1/2007 8:25:41 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Er....ok, you may have already thought of this, but anyway. My neice has Aspegers, but she's only seven, My sister is kind of an expert on it. If you think it's any use to you, I'd br happy to help you;if you have specific questions about the condition I could pick My sister's brains and suggest books/websites, things like that to you based on what My sister knows.

If that's any good yu can contact Me in My mail box. Good luck.

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/2/2007 5:53:28 AM   
Aubre


Posts: 478
Joined: 12/9/2004
Status: offline 		My conscience has always been on overdrive, I know how that feels.

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/2/2007 6:27:56 AM   
Tatshua


Posts: 31
Joined: 6/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Can someone with a disability such as this consent?  I'm curious because what I've read makes it sound similar to autism.


Yes, they can, they can live normal lives. Most get advanced degrees, great jobs, get married and have families. It is in social interactions where the deficit lives.


This instantly made me think of my close friend Anna. She has Asbergers and atleast one other thing. I whould say she isn't realy like any other 20-years old I know, I havent seen her interact outside a secure enviroment so I don't know how she acts outside of it. I remeber when she first saw that we had put up a door to our yard as my brother had gotten a dog who lives with us on a moderately regular basis. Anna seemed confused because she couldn't remember it and seemed unable to relate it to anything specific.

I know asbergers isn't the only the only thing she has. My mum is pretty sure it's autism, but still. We're not 100% sure.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/2/2007 7:55:05 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		At one time all these labels were unknown,people were just people,we all had little quirks and peculiarities.Because something now has a label,and there something for someone to research,it does not mean people should be treated a whole lot differently.We all should have the ability to be able to relate to others and in a loving relationship,these walls can be climbed.

As for a D/s relationship,if it were me who was the 'D' and I encountered someone who had Asperger's syndrome,I for one would disregard that 'disability' and look at that person as more of a challenge.If it was all easy,it would be boring.

I have at one time been labelled with AS,but undiagnosed,quite pointless at my age as I have learned to deal with most things.Aware of my inability to look someone in the eye,I have consciously trained myself to do so.Recognising peoples facial expressions has in the past been a problem,but I do have empathy,I can perceive people's feelings,and feelings I trust.

The typical AS characteristics are not set in stone and people should not take too much heed of them,but understanding someone is part of the fun.

Labels do serve to isolate people,a person once labelled with having a 'disorder',can become detatched from society,leading to other illnesses,depression being one of the more common and the feeling that they are different.

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/2/2007 8:35:40 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

At one time all these labels were unknown,people were just people,we all had little quirks and peculiarities.Because something now has a label,and there something for someone to research,it does not mean people should be treated a whole lot differently.We all should have the ability to be able to relate to others and in a loving relationship,these walls can be climbed.

As for a D/s relationship,if it were me who was the 'D' and I encountered someone who had Asperger's syndrome,I for one would disregard that 'disability' and look at that person as more of a challenge.If it was all easy,it would be boring.

I have at one time been labelled with AS,but undiagnosed,quite pointless at my age as I have learned to deal with most things.Aware of my inability to look someone in the eye,I have consciously trained myself to do so.Recognising peoples facial expressions has in the past been a problem,but I do have empathy,I can perceive people's feelings,and feelings I trust.

The typical AS characteristics are not set in stone and people should not take too much heed of them,but understanding someone is part of the fun.

Labels do serve to isolate people,a person once labelled with having a 'disorder',can become detatched from society,leading to other illnesses,depression being one of the more common and the feeling that they are different.


To address your last point first- Asperger's is a syndrome, which is only sometimes a disorder. A syndrom is just a description of a collection of characteristics, and while labels may be isolating in some regards, being able to identify a pattern and refer to it can be very helpful both for people with the pattern and people dealing with them.  It's unfortunate that some people use labels to dismiss the reality, and the people, behind them, but such people are not dealing deeply with others anyway.  Labels can help us avoid reinventing the wheel, grant a quicker path to insight, and lead us to constructive solutions rather than being overwhelmed with incomprehensible data that doesn't fit into our previous experience.
I do agree that much of AS is 'not set in stone' (depending on the severity of the individual case).  While the syndrome is an expression of a different organization of the brain, the brain is in many respects remarkably plastic, and AS typically grants it's possessors powerful tools for shaping their own minds.  What is often lacking is the motivation to make certain kinds of adaptations.  Part of this is due to 'blind spots' about certain NT characteristics and their value, and part is a natural reaction to being misunderstood and, from their perspective, mistreated by NTs.  Hopefully, if more people are aware of, and understand the meaning behind, labels like Asperger's Syndrome, aspies will experience less social friction and rejection, and have more opportunities to understand what can be gained by making some of these adaptations. That, of course, cuts both ways, as the tendency toward arrogance in aspies doesn't encourage others to understand and accomodate them, either.


(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: D/s and Asperger's Syndrome - 7/2/2007 9:06:57 AM   
Adelphus


Posts: 87
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Must...read...everything posted... oh screw it. Hey Calandra! We spoke once I think.;-) Anyway, I'm an Aspie or High Functioning, they never really decided on that. I've learned to compensate for a lot of it so it doesn't show as easily anymore, but there are issues in the BDSM world, at least for me. I have some rather odd hard limits from it, like issues using my mouth for stuff. If an Aspie has a weird hard limit, it's usually not something they can help, even if it sounds dumb. We may try to sort it out on our own when we feel strong enough but don't even push it. It will activate the "hide in a closet because normal people will hurt me" reflex.
I read a lot of us hate to be touched but I CRAVE IT LIKE MAD, so it's always good to ask and not assume. We need things spelled out. We like lists. We love things written down where we can refer to it as an anchor point. Never leave an Aspie to be able to just 'instinctively know' what to do, like know when you need a drink. If you want a drink, you'll have to ask. We may think of it ourselves (and be damn proud of it) but don't expect it. Picking up hint-dropping is an area we suck in. It doesn’t sound romantically subtle but...well we aren't. But we ARE ridiculously loyal, so if you're into that, that's our forte.
An Aspie will become more relaxed with you the more point blanke and open you are, because then we don't have to worry as much. We may ask a million times if you're okay if we've developed that far. That's what I do, because I'm afraid to miss something. A lot of people make the mistake of not stating when something annoys them because they hope it will resolve itself or it's not that bad, just because they don't want to hurt the Aspie's feelings. Trust me, we WANT to know. The more often the better.
Be nice but direct, and give a logical reason why if you can. That makes it less confusing for us. So if we tap our fingers on the desk too much, ask us to stop and explain that it is distracting. What is far FAR worse is NOT saying something, letting it build up over time and then blowing up at us, because that SERIOULSY freaks us out. We will almost NEVER see it coming, even if it seems obvious to everyone else (and it usually does, so we tend not to get sympathy) It just makes us hide even more. Extreme shows of emotion can scare us too, especially if we don't know where it's coming from.
And a huge thing for you Doms with Aspie Subs, we have an inherent inability to just blindly follow authority. You have to inspire that in us, you can't just say 'do as I say because I'm awesome.' If you're already in a relationship, then the Aspie obviously thinks you're awesome, but may still try to correct you. It's not a challenge! We just correct things for the benefit of all concerned. If you get mad over it, we may think you are refusing information on an irrational basis and may begin to doubt your stability. You don't have to agree with us, but try not to get defensive. We won't understand why. In fact we may view it as our duty to correct you for your own sake.
So in summary, spell things out, make boundaries, and realize we have our own set of parameters we may be quite unable to change.
At least this is my experience. Your mileage may vary.;-)
PS. We're great at finding stuff (pennies, dropped earrings, four-leaf clovers, ect), doing mundane tasks, untying knots, doing puzzles, things that usually annoy the crap out of normal people. Aspies love being used in the areas they excel in, it gives us confidence. My wife lets me do all the hard parts in video games for example.
Cheers!

< Message edited by Adelphus -- 7/2/2007 9:11:28 AM >

(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 120
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