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Lewcifer -> RE: When Orgasm Turns Into Torture (6/30/2007 10:24:34 AM)
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ORIGINAL: RchmdServiceNeed
I was not trying to be rude-- I was trying to be realistic AND helpful. Because the answer wasn't exactly what you wanted to hear, you really didn't listen to it at all. Comparing a female orgasm/sexual experience to putting bolt on is is EXACTLY my point-- they are not the same. Everyone's experience is not the same, nor even close and the DEGREE to which it varries is so high with women that it would be impossible to devise a device that was mass pleasureable-- However, it MAY be possible to devise one that was acceptible IF you only took the preferences of a few into account-- ie: The ones who this will be used on.
I will assume I misinterpreted what you said, and go from there... thanks for the tempered reply, by the way. I just didn't find some of your replies germane (and it had nothing to do with spoiling a fantasy, contrary to third-party misinformation recently posted here), and some of your assumptions weren't relevant to this particular situation. I'll try to explain Myself better here...
I'm not building this for one particular person, or for a particular group of people. I'm building it for a "majority audience" - and part of the process is to identify limits and differences, then set a cut-off where its design pleases most of the people, most of the time. It will not be a universal "fit-all" tool, nor do I want it to be at this point. As such, I cannot just take the preferences of "a few" into account, as you suggested.
It's interesting to Me that LotusSong immediately had to chime in with "don't confuse him with the facts." There's a difference between irrelevant facts and facts that address the issue at hand. I think you understand what I mean... telling Me I should seek feedback from the small group of friends the device is going to be used on, when it's meant to be used on a general audience (even more so if it becomes a device featured on kink.com) is not a relevant fact. LotusSong then responds, mistaking filtering of irrelevant facts with purposeful ignorance. Such is not the case.
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The idea that women's physical/mental stimulation varries 10xs that of men is a concept I was serious in stating. You can not *make* a woman cum no matter how hard you or she tires if it's just not going to work or something is going on MENTALLY. There is No amount of physical sensation that can make a woman cum if she is not MENTALLY arroused and allowing of it. For a woman, cumming is 90% [or more] mental.
I completely agree with you that a woman's dynamic range and mental/physical interactions are completely different than in men. I do take exception with your general statement about "cannot make a woman cum" if she's not mentally allowing for it. In years of filming over 200 young women for My various websites, some of whom have never had an orgasm before, it is very possible to make some women cum, even when they don't think they can (which means their mental state is such that they're not allowing for it). Yes, I realize - this is not germane to the main thread.
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A woman is not a bolt. And that is exactly the point. But maybe you have to be a woman to understand that? I don't know.... but pointing it out to you was meant to be Helpful.
I appreciate that, and I wasn't trying to come down as scolding in My reply... though My "facts only" writing style may make it seem that way. With regard to the "bolt" issue, a woman is not a bolt, but parameters can be collected an analyzed the same as for any project. It doesn't seem to stop Doc Johnson from coming out with products that only work well for some women - and that was my point. Collecting generalized data, then building this device such that it works for a general audience. That's all I was trying to say. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I didn't forget that there's a "feedback cycle"-- it's just not particularly attractive to me, nor have very many others mentioned it. Personally, I wouldn't mind being disciplined by my dom, but to have it come from another sub? I'm not sure how co-submission/ co-dominance between the subs would work mentally -- I mean, who's in charge? the one who laughs or moves the most?? Is the other sub appeasing master sub AND Master at the same time? I understand that may be physically and visually erotic for you, but, it might not being doing much for your subs and might be haveing a negative affect depending on their connection desires with you.
The dynamics that take place in the room is something generated by the players... not the device. The Dom is there, giving orders and participating in what's happening. I think you're assuming too much (and maybe I'm assuming too little?). In My mind, there are a lot of possibilites for how the inter-play can take place... depending on the relationship between the players. Again, I didn't think this was germane to the discussion at hand, because the dynamics are governed more by the players than the device.
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You keep saying how great it would be to have them be connected, to have a feedback loop -- but you haven't asked anyone if that would be arousing to them. Nor has anyone said it. However, that seems to be one of *your* personal kinks which is fine. It just might not contribute to the women depending, who knows...
I find that most men, with few exceptions, are aroused by kinky predicament situations happening to women. With all due respect, My audience is those men. My wife is My slave... her function is to please and entertain Me, regardless of how arousing it might be to her. If that had not been acceptable, W/we would have negotiated a plain-vanilla relationship instead. My point is... perhaps you're looking at this from the view of a different (non-target, in this case) audience!
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If you "need to know the limits" [which I agree with] then you need to ask the specific people it will be used on and not make it a measure of love or submission to say whatever you want to hear. It IS "germane" to consider the physical and mental needs of the people who something is going to be used on-- The more advanced and POWERFUL the device, the MORE SPECIFIC and accomodating one must be.
General, world-wide audience... those are the "specific people it will be used on" - women who answer my production company's ads and get paid $600 to do a video. It's kind of like telling a dildo manufacturer they should ask the specific women they'll be selling this to before producing the dildo! Sorry... that's impossible. The best one can do is to ask a general audience, assemble their replies, and then accomodate as many variances as possible within reason. This is not a "beat you into submission until you give Me the answer I want" or "don't confuse Me with the facts" thing... and I hope I've illustrated that by now. It's a "these are the practical limitations - please provide inputs that fit" thing. Honest.
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What I find odd is: This doesn't seem to be the kind of play one would do as first-time play......... So, why don't you have some idea already as to your sub's thresholds, desires, etc? [and it's okay if you don't b/c it's very easy to ask them] And if you don't know, why aren't you asking them?
First-time play, caught on video, is a very hot commodity. I run a business, producing everything from college girl facial cumshots (as shown here) to glamour insertions (yes, there is such a thing... as shown here for proof). To answer your question, I don't know the sub's threshold, desires, etc because I don't know ahead of time who's going to be answering the ads.
your suggestion works fine for "local community" stuff... meaning when the device is used in a demo with local sub's. Of course, limits and expectations are always discussed... the same as they would be for first-timers or old-hands alike.
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Don't get mad at me.
Okay... did I do a better job, this time? Please don't mistake my "matter of fact" responses for anger. It's how I am.
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Also consider the anger in your posts at me and calling me ridiculous for pointing things out might be how your subs feel if they were to point out or say something you don't like.......... how are they to be honest with you if you say they are silly for expressing concerns?
Try and separate the object from the subject. I was not calling you ridiculous... I was saying that the point you were making or the argument you were using was reductio ad absurdum (link provided), and sometimes not germane to the discussion at hand. That is not a personal attack... it is a socially acceptable form of argument! Please don't personalize it... you were not the target of My replies, your points were.
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How are you to ever get the feedback you need to make a good machine if you are not asking them and they feel pressured to say whatever you wanted to hear anyway?
I think this thread, in which so many have contributed wonderful feedback, is itself an answer to your question.
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PS. A mind-fuck can not be done with a Toy. There is a human energy element that can not be automated. And feedback from other subs is not what I am talking about-- The energy of the Dom acting sexually upon you is what *does* it for most subs.
This isn't just a "Dom sits and drinks a beer while the girls interact" thing... The Dom is reigning over the predicament the entire time. Otherwise, there would be nothing in it for the Dom and a lot of the sexual tension would be lost.
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