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What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 8:26:27 AM

LordDarkPleasure

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hello, I was just wondering what the Top/botton, male/female and male Top/male sub and female Top/female sub ratios were. Things are obviously not 50/50, and I am wondering if anyone has numbers concerning this.

Thanks!

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 8:30:37 AM

Rover

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Trevor Jacques has statistical data on this, and a great deal more. I'm sure you can find him on a google search, and ask the question. You might even want to report back to us with what you learn, as I'm sure others would be interested.

Nothing like being a proactive participant in your own education. :)

John

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 8:47:10 AM

LordDarkPleasure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Trevor Jacques has statistical data on this, and a great deal more. I'm sure you can find him on a google search, and ask the question. You might even want to report back to us with what you learn, as I'm sure others would be interested.

Nothing like being a proactive participant in your own education. :)

John

Thanks, I'll try to look up his website. Its down for the moment though, hopefully its only temporary

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 9:15:17 AM

slaverosebeauty

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Male tops to female bottoms on cm is probably 12 or 15 to 1.
Trolls/wannabes/fakes etc to real people on cm 100 to 1.

Both are VERY conservative estimates.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 9:23:57 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Male tops to female bottoms on cm is probably 12 or 15 to 1.
Trolls/wannabes/fakes etc to real people on cm 100 to 1.

Both are VERY conservative estimates.

I don't dispute that guesstimate, but find it interesting to contrast with actual statistical research. While I don't recall the specific percentages, I do recall that Trevor Jacques' research reveals that the largest category of lifestyle participant is female submissive/slave/bottom.

Just another instance in which online is not representative of reality.

John

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 9:46:45 AM

CuriousLord

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This is the best answer I ever got. Still, I feel it's a safe assumption that most hardly even have a fair idea, and threads like this mostly invite tired "lots of fakes!" jokes.

Good luck.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 9:59:58 AM

dogobedience

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As in everything, less leaders than followers, be it BDSM or life. Many want to lead, few take the time to polish and perfect their talent.

I believe it is much more difficult to lead that to follow. A top needs to constantly lead and set an environment conducive for success, A bottom simply needs to listen and obey and react. Both parts take effort, but far more is from the top, than the bottom. YES your boss at work really does work, even though the workers want to believe they do ALL the work.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 12:02:35 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dogobedience

As in everything, less leaders than followers, be it BDSM or life. Many want to lead, few take the time to polish and perfect their talent.

I believe it is much more difficult to lead that to follow. A top needs to constantly lead and set an environment conducive for success, A bottom simply needs to listen and obey and react. Both parts take effort, but far more is from the top, than the bottom. YES your boss at work really does work, even though the workers want to believe they do ALL the work.

Several observations that come to mind as I read this...

1. Just because "polishing your talent" (and anything else that appeals to you) is one of your objectives, does not make it "right" for everyone else.

2. Not everyone has (or is it have?) the same talent, nor ability. Some are average (or even below average), not because of any lack of effort (gosh, most people polish like crazy!!) but because that's the limitations of their ability.

3. Don't confuse the mastering of a craft or talent, with being Dominant. I know many submissives/slaves/bottoms that make mighty fine Tops... even professional Dominatrix's.

4. I believe it's much more difficult to follow. Of course, being Dominant comes natural to me (I believe it's an innate ability). I could not be a submissive/slave/bottom, and thus I admire what others can do, that exceed my ability.

5. Whenever I hear sentences that begin with "A Top (or insert Dominant, submissive, slave, etc.) needs to" I instantly consider the source with suspicion. You show me "The Book Of Top" where it says what a Top must do.

6. Sure, there are some bottoms (or submissive/slaves) that simply listen, obey and react. They require constant micro-management, and I dare say that they are an exceptionally small minority. So are the Tops/Dominants that actually desire them. They fall into my category of "great fantasy, crappy reality" for most Dominants (but a great reality for that minority of Dominants).

7. Far more effort on the part of a Dominant? Wow, you sure haven't spent much time delving into what it takes to be a submissive. You might want to listen to a few sometime, rather than talk to them.

Just some food for thought.

John

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 12:17:05 PM

gooddogbenji

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Well said!

Yours,

benji

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 12:42:00 PM

MagiksSlave

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95% of statistics are made up on the spot *WEG*

Magik's slave who still manages to have some humor in her

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 1:52:40 PM

dogobedience

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Overall a good reply to me, based on my response. One point I must cover, I say top/bottom now to cover all aspects in general.

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I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 1:54:21 PM

dogobedience

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I like it when you back up someone else, like saying go get em daddy, thanks for the laugh!

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I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

Tiger, proud owner of kali aka Tigerproperty

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 2:02:17 PM

Grlwithboy

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quote:

I believe it is much more difficult to lead that to follow. A top needs to constantly lead and set an environment conducive for success, A bottom simply needs to listen and obey and react. Both parts take effort, but far more is from the top, than the bottom. YES your boss at work really does work, even though the workers want to believe they do ALL the work.

"Simply obey" isn't simple whatsoever - no one in this culture is encouraged to be a follower or to be obedient to anyone. Almost every submissive I've had has overcome internal struggle and works hard at pleasing me. I also approach things from a service model, and in a lot of cases I have people in service to avoid having to think about every detail and to make my life easier. If it was passivity purely, I would have to do all the work, but it's not and I don't.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/29/2007 4:35:54 PM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure

hello, I was just wondering what the Top/botton, male/female and male Top/male sub and female Top/female sub ratios were. Things are obviously not 50/50, and I am wondering if anyone has numbers concerning this.

Actually, I think you're wrong - 50/50 is consistent with Nature's balance in practically everything else.

Now, whether a male or Dom or Westerner etc is more predisposed or even more able to explore a particular side of their psyche and needs is a different matter. We're predominantly taught and raised (even socially engineered) to live our relationships as sexual equals (in theory, anyway) and even in this age, homosexuality, for eg, seems more socially palatable to the mostly vanilla world than a relationship of unequal control dynamic.

I'd wager there's a reasonable percentage of CM members who feel guilt about their Dom or sub orientations because it's not how they were raised or the culture they live or were raised in - that's an enormous hurdle for many to get past.

Nature seems to get it right - we've had thousands of years of civilisation yet the male to female ratio is cosistently unchanged, even allowing for historical events or spikes affecting male mortality more than female, such as wars.

The Dom/mes or subs are out there in relatively equal numbers, IMO - it's just that some more than others are less or more inclined to explore such socially controversial yearnings.

Focus.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 2:42:35 AM

trixxitrash

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I agree with you, Focus, that the natural ratio is 50/50. However, we are socialized to believe in egalitarianism, and so the statistics get skewed.

Biologically, most men are inclined toward dominance, and most women toward submission. However, in school we are taught that men are wrong to seek submission from women, and that women who give into their submissive tendencies are betraying their sisterhood.

The end result is hypocracy. Men run around trying to be dominant without seeming like they wish to dominate, and women submit while trying to act like they aren't submitting. But if you look around, and notice all the obviously dominant men who have their pick of women, and all the egalitarian men (a.k.a. nice guys) who go without, it becomes clear that nature will run its course, no matter how society tries to dress things up.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 3:00:35 AM

becca333

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Society sure makes a mess of our natural instincts.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 7:06:23 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

95% of statistics are made up on the spot *WEG*

Actually, it's 98.13326%* of statistics that are made up on the spot.

*Plus or minus the squareroot of pi over the quadratic function of a slice of apple pie.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 8:14:23 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

Male tops to female bottoms on cm is probably 12 or 15 to 1.
Trolls/wannabes/fakes etc to real people on cm 100 to 1.

Both are VERY conservative estimates.

I don't dispute that guesstimate, but find it interesting to contrast with actual statistical research. While I don't recall the specific percentages, I do recall that Trevor Jacques' research reveals that the largest category of lifestyle participant is female submissive/slave/bottom.

Just another instance in which online is not representative of reality.

John

mmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe that is why so many females are having trouble finding a partner........ they are out in the community looking for partners... and the men are online beating their dogs.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 10:03:39 AM

ExSteelAgain

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Yeah, to Rover with Knights follow-up. It may seem online that Doms outnumber subs, but when it comes down to actually meeting or going to events it seems to me that female subs are in the majority. I've seen too many subs at clubs sitting together waiting for a Dom to brighten their day to think otherwise.

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RE: What are the ratios? - 6/30/2007 2:47:21 PM

LordDarkPleasure

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well, I couldn't find the information on this Trevor Jacques website, but I did find another website that cited a survey on young adults (18-24 years old) Here are the results cited from the website:

Research shows some significant differences in opinion and behavior between men and women when it comes to erotic power exchange. We singled out the respondents between 18 and 24 years of age for you, because the answers of the respondents in this age range point to some very interesting conclusions.
Not a real phenomenum - in fact pretty well known in sexology - is the fact that young women are not so sure about their general sexual orientation as young men are. For example, almost the entire group of male respondents (96%) indicates their sexual orientation is heterosexual, whereas 71% of the female group indicates heterosexual and 29% is either curious about bisexuality or not sure about their orientation at all.
When it comes to role pattern however, the young men seem to be much less clear about their orientation. Only half of the male group indicates a positive dominant role (52%), 14% indicates to be submissive and 34% indicates to switch roles. The vast majority (71%) of the female respondents indicates they are submissive, 19% switches roles and 10% has a dominant orientation.
Also, young women appear to be much more active when it comes to erotic power exchange. A strong majority of 62% indicates they have had at least one active erotic power exchange experience, whereas only 32% of the male respondents say they have had such an active experience.

source: http://www.sexsupport.org/bdsmforyoungadults.html

unfortunately it doesn't give the information on the number of participants, or on the other age categories. If someone finds something more complete, or is you can get your hands on the collarme statistics, it would be nice.

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