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what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 9:54:53 PM

Iwanttolearnhow

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/25/2007
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I am fairly new to the scene... ok, very new, but I really love it and feel that I am home... but I am not yet at the point where I know what to do as a dom. So, I have a situation and I need advice from doms and subs alike. I am with a woman who is a sub but who can be very rebellious. At times, she gets more rebellious the more that I assert myself in the relationship. I know that in general I do a good job because of the way she responds to my authority... particularly in the bedroom. But, sometimes, when we are out in public she will act in a way that challenges my dominance over her. I don't know the best way to respond.... what is the best way to put one's sub in her place immediately and without fail when in public? Thank you all

T

Post #: 1

RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:00:40 PM

imthatacheyouhav

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Waits to see the words of wisdom fill the page......(goes to get the popcorn)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:01:30 PM

Dane

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Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline

Rebellious behaviour can come from many things and I can't tell which it is from your letter. She may be testing your resolve, or just being playful, or wordlessly begging you for more domination. It's up to you to take her aside, and without shutting her down or making her feel like she can't be honest with you, get her to talk to you about the reasons she's doing this. You'll be groping in the dark until you know the cause of the behaviour, so that's what I'd address first.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)

Post #: 3

RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:05:28 PM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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just like a (sorry if this offends, but..) a dog thats missbehaving, ignore it...the majority of the time a person missbehaves in public it is because they want attention and it doesn't matter if its good or bad...then when you get home...address the underlying issue...because unless you're allowing your submissive to get their rocks off with your athoratating yourself in the bedroom, and they want it all the time, which is fine if thats what you want but otherwise...there is something underneath causing the bad behavior...if you look around the message boards you will find that ignoring a submissive is by far the worst punishment they could recieve...
and once you get all the underlying causes taken care of, if they start slipping back into that habbit *that look* will usually stop any bad behavoir before it starts...they say it takes 30 days to form a habbit and 30 days to break one...patience and sticking to the rules is the only way you will help someone change a habbit...on the other hand, if they don't want to change it, it will never stick and stay....
just my not so humble opinion on the subject
chelle
House Infernus

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:10:09 PM

WyckedMystress

Posts: 118
Joined: 6/24/2005
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have to agree with Dane - she could be testing to see what happens. How You treat that is up to You - what would be the best way to punish her? For example I had a boy who was not focussing on a task, he did it badly and half heartedly. So I had him stand holding a coin to the wall for 45 mins. he had to hold the coin there with his nose. Now he focuses much better :)

WyckedMystress

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 5

RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:11:12 PM

Celeste43

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From: NYS
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Talk to her and ask what's going on. She may have very different views than you about sharing the dynamic with the general public. Have you bothered to talk with her in detail concerning her feelings on this subject?

(in reply to chellekitty)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:16:04 PM

AquaticSub

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Ditto

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:22:51 PM

winterlight

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Joined: 2/18/2006
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I haven't have a realtionship yet but i would talk to her. Maybe establish a code word where when she goes too far she knows that if U say that code word she WILL STOP immediately? A look or glare would get me right away.

The only time i think i would be rebellious is when i am super tired, upset, or i don't want to do anything. That is for me....

(in reply to AquaticSub)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:25:32 PM

Iwanttolearnhow

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Joined: 5/25/2007
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here is the deal.... we are both very very new to the scene. we have been dating for about two years but finally came out to each other about our sexual interests about two months ago.... we talked about our fantasies which effectively amount to a situation wherein she wants to be very sub and I want to be very very dom. So I am in a situation wherein I am a little torn. On the one hand I want to be what I am.... authoritative..... dominant.... firm... but I don't want to disrespect her. So, when she acts rebellious, while I want to lay down the law I don't want to make her feel like a piece of crap. does that make sense?

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 9

RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 10:42:01 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
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From: NYS
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The fact that she wants to be submissive to you doesn't mean that she totally can, or should, put aside her morals or her values. Now we don't know what you are asking her to do in public.

There's an enormous difference between you telling the waiter what the lady will have to eat and you making her crawl on her knees while the family at the table next to you watches. If it's the second, and she views it as reprehensible to act that way in public, then she should stick to her morals and refuse.

Talk to her about what you are asking her to do, what she thinks about this, if she can suggest a way to do what you want to some degree without breaking her own moral code. We can't judge because we have been given zero details to help us make suggestions.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 11:03:01 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear Iwanttolearnhow, Ladies and Gentlemen;

This is a case where you see the glass half full and she sees the glass half empty. Both of you are correct.

What is needed is communication as far as expectations from her as well as yourself. What public picture is there to be. It will never be successful if one person will not cooperate with you in any one area that becomes an ugly behavior.

Rebellion is resistance. Resistance is non-submission. Rebellion is manipulation and controlling behaviors--forcing another person to change their position, behavior and or tactics. In addition, rebellion is a means to trigger a response out of you--really is a form of "Domination from a submissive role."

Bedroom is most likely where it will be civil. I would definately look within as to see if you want to remain boxed into the bedroom with her or, go elsewhere and find a match that will be agreeable with your long range goals in being a Dominant in or out of the bedroom, in public as well as private.

One can struggle with many questions however, until they are asked--there will only be assumptions and no discussions, understanding and or listening to the other's points of view.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 11:05:57 PM

slaveish

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~smiling at LadyHugs~

Beautiful as always.

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You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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Post #: 12

RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 11:10:01 PM

LadyHugs

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear Iwanttolearnhow, Ladies and Gentlemen;

As far as discipline and punishment as to correct a behavior and or attitude, it should be known what is deemed inappropriate behavior before the fact, not during the moment or after the fact. Expectations should be known.

For every action there is an affect/effect. There are consequences. When people know the consequences, they must choose how to behave or the attitude they must have.

Unlike fantasy, making any real D/s relationship work requires a lot of communication, a lot of mutual respect for each side of things. It is also work to listen as much as it takes talking.

As a Dominant, it is usually that position where you must be the example of which you can be an inspiration. You must do as you expect others to do. Dominance really is to inspire as much as it means to be in the teaching and leadership/responsibility role. Sometimes one in a Dominant role must ask themselves, if what I expect a slave to do is against good judgment or puts them into a position to rebel.

I highly recommend going to your local BDSM support and or education groups. It is helpful to be among those peers who can physically interact with you both.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

< Message edited by LadyHugs -- 6/29/2007 11:15:39 PM >

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/29/2007 11:42:58 PM

chiaThePet

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Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

Put me in pigtails and my rebellion will disappear for hours.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 12:46:48 AM

robertolapiedra

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Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

Hello Iwanttolearnhow. When a sub responds to your "authority" in the bedroom, you should not use this as a "sure" measure of submission. It seems that you are encountering "resistance" which is non-submission . The point of D/s, is submitting to a dominant (pleasure), not resisting (displeasure).

I would recommend a break from domming. A lot of women are sexually submissive (even to the level of a sexslave) but that is not a garantee that they are also "submissive" in daily life. Just go somewhere for some fun, and talk about the non sexual issues.

Even if she was a sub, she could be at a "minimal" level of submission at this moment in the relationship, and way "under" your expectations. This could give you the "impression" that she is more of a rebel than she really is.

Is she resisting non sexual submission, or is she resisting the "level" of expected submission? This is even more complicated, if "you" yourself do not know what level you want from the consensual dynamic.

Check how big your "babysteps" are, and the speed at which you are developping the "dynamic". Usually, that is were you make "consented" adjustments, if you have a submissive that wants to submit, but finds it too difficult or overwhelming (rebellion, resistance) for some reason you do not know about. RL.

(in reply to Iwanttolearnhow)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 2:17:46 AM

SubinMaine

Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
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First, i agree with both Celeste and Lady Hugs...they are giving you some great advice. (Lady Hugs, i always enjoy reading Your replies...informative, educated and always right on the money).

The relationship dynamic outside the home may be viewed differently by her...communication should be your mantra *smile*

You can still be Dominant without disrespecting her...from past relationships i find that this skill comes with practice and education.

In O/our situation, the home life is a complete D/s picture until friends (vanilla) or family (let's not go there) visit and then it's adjusted to fit the circumstances. It is still very apparent that Sir rules the roost, but it's done so in a loving, playful manner. However, that being said, the outside world must be approached much differently. In public situations, W/we are complete equals...for a variety of reasons. This does not stop Him, however, from coming up with ways to remind me while W/we ARE in public, that it is only a temporary adjustment....(strategically placed clamps under clothing is a favorite of His).

i wish you luck in working this out...the fact that you are concerned and looking for ways to correct the problem speaks volumes about your sincereity. *smile*

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 5:46:30 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

No one here knows you or your partner. No one knows the unique relationship you have with one another. And consequently, no one can know what is "right" for you to do. That's up to you.

We've all been there at one time or another. There's playful disobedience, and then there's outright public rebellion. In my opinion, the fact that it happens in public like that implies that the issue is more her coming to grips with her submission (and needing to "prove" to others that she's not a doormat) than anything that has to do with your Dominance. But, that's a shot in the dark with hardly any information to base it on.

Personally, I don't like that kind of stuff and won't put up with it. I've had to deal with it myself in the past (as I've said, we all have at one time or another). When I dealt with it, I found it helpful to pack her bags and have the conversation standing over them at the front door. She was either going to end that behavior immediately (and I'd help her achieve that), or we'd take the bags to her car and wave goodbye.

That cannot be an idle threat.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 6:41:09 AM

SirDominic

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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Several important points to consider. Although a D/s relationship typically includes domination in the bedroom, domination in the bedroom does not necessarily have anything to do with D/s. Most trusting couples play at some point with the kink of sexual domination and submission. Very few of them go on to an actual D/s relationship. That you started in the bedroom is very common, but it does not mean much.

You say you "want" to be very dom and she "wants" to be very sub. There is a huge difference between wanting to do something and having the ability to do so. As neither of you have any experience, you are both play acting the D/s scene right now. But is it who you really are? Only the two of you can answer that question. Just be aware that there a lot of people who like the fantasy, but do not have the personality traits for the reality.

You said "On the one hand I want to be what I am.... authoritative..... dominant.... firm... but I don't want to disrespect her." This is a very telling statement that you do not have a clue how to dominate someone. You do not have the qualities you say you have if you think disrespecting her is the way to get her back in line. Again, probably from a lack of experience, and misunderstanding on your part. I'm not saying you do not have the ability to be Dominant, just that you don't know how at this time.

Domination is not normally about making the sub feel like crap. Very quite the opposite. Domination is about a style that places the sub in a place where she is punished in such a way that she is corrected, and feels respected, loved all at once. One of the possible reasons you are having a conflict with her submission is that you may be trying to make her feel less worth as punishment; this is not going to work (except for a very specific type of submissive). Which may be why she is being rebellious. She likes the concept of submission, but does not like the way you are going about it.

As several others have said, the two of you need to communicate much more about what it is you are actually looking for here. Saying you want to be Dominant and she wants to be submissive is pointless. It is the Why and the How questions that you need to talk to each other about. I would also recommend some serious reading both online, and from books.

A very good place to start, and an easy book to come by is the famous Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns by Miller and Devon. It is an excellent generic introduction to many elements of a D/s relationship, along with many of the pitfalls.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 6:46:24 AM

MistressRouge

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From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
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I would not entertain a defiant submissive, to challenge or test My Dominance. It is not a healthy dynamic to a relationship.

That would use far too much pressure and energy, why have a power struggle on an on going basis?

Mental and mind challenges, now that is a different story

, I like the battle of the minds moreso, and I always win

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RE: what to do with a rebellious sub? - 6/30/2007 6:54:15 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iwanttolearnhow

here is the deal.... we are both very very new to the scene. we have been dating for about two years but finally came out to each other about our sexual interests about two months ago.... we talked about our fantasies which effectively amount to a situation wherein she wants to be very sub and I want to be very very dom. So I am in a situation wherein I am a little torn. On the one hand I want to be what I am.... authoritative..... dominant.... firm... but I don't want to disrespect her. So, when she acts rebellious, while I want to lay down the law I don't want to make her feel like a piece of crap. does that make sense?

What do you do?

Talk to her. Establish when and where you both agree to your having authority.

It may be that frankly it is only in the bedroom. Nothing wrong with that at all.

It may be that it's on in the privacy of one of your homes. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But if you both aren't in full agreement about when authority is respected and when it isn't, you will have problems that might turn into resentments.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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